The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

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    PTFlea
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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:37 am

    Ev wrote:Add Condra and Wiercioch to the list in my opinion. Not saying I want to get rid of Wiercioch but he could be use in an upgrade

    Or that. You upgrade the left side 2nd pairing and play Wiercioch as the 7th guy or trade him. Either way, this team can take a massive step forward with one #3 Dman acquired.

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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by Ev on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:40 am

    SpezDispensed wrote:This is how I envision the lineup:

    MacArthur - Turris - Stone
    Hoffman - Zibanejad - Ryan
    Puempel  - Pageau - lazar
    Michalek - smith - Neil
    Chiasson

    I think Condra gets an offer he can't refuse in free agency.  Which sucks because he's been fantastic under Cameron.  

    Methot - Karlsson
    Wiercioch - ?????
    Boro - Ceci

    Cowen traded, Phillips sits, Gryba the depth 7th guy.  That hole on the right side is very, very important.  Need to fill it with a big player.

    Anderson
    Hammond

    With the proviso that we sign o'connor, Lehner is traded.  I'm sorry, but I can't see any scenario where you trade Anderson right now.  

    They're a budget team who needs to choose between one of the goalies. It makes sense to trade the declining asset who makes more money + is injury prone, in my opinion.

    Before this round nobody even remembered Andy existed. He went 2-2 in the playoffs. We have more pressing needs to fill then to keep Anderson


    Last edited by Ev on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:41 am

    Bottom line - where do people, must importantly our brass - see this team next year? A contender? A playoff team? A fringe playoff team?

    If they truly think the time has come, you need to make some key acquisitions.
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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by wprager on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:44 am

    I agree with everything in the OP so might as well close this thread.

    Wiercioch played quite a bit of that last game with Karlsson. I had suggested that as a possible pairing back in the dark days (as in, try just about anything right now). They looked good together. And then Methot with Ceci really strengthens that 2nd pairing.



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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:45 am

    Ev wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:This is how I envision the lineup:

    MacArthur - Turris - Stone
    Hoffman - Zibanejad - Ryan
    Puempel  - Pageau - lazar
    Michalek - smith - Neil
    Chiasson

    I think Condra gets an offer he can't refuse in free agency.  Which sucks because he's been fantastic under Cameron.  

    Methot - Karlsson
    Wiercioch - ?????
    Boro - Ceci

    Cowen traded, Phillips sits, Gryba the depth 7th guy.  That hole on the right side is very, very important.  Need to fill it with a big player.

    Anderson
    Hammond

    With the proviso that we sign o'connor, Lehner is traded.  I'm sorry, but I can't see any scenario where you trade Anderson right now.  

    They're a budget team who needs to choose between one of the goalies. It makes sense to trade the declining asset who makes more money + is injury prone, in my opinion.

    Before this round nobody even remembered Andy existed. He went 2-2 in the playoffs.

    I agree, but for the 3rd straight time Anderson came in and dominated in the playoffs. That's 3 straight times now where he's taken on the best if the best and gone toe to toe with them. Plus, that 2-2 record I odd because he lost 2-1 and 1-0. Can't win without scoring.

    I have confidence in Lehner if they go that way. The dude is young, super athletic, had worker, but so far he's just not as good as Anderson. It's a strange scenario for sure.

    Maybe you roll with the two of them and see where you're at at the deadline or next off season. Not sure.
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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:46 am

    This'll be the toughest decision they make. The bishop decision was easy compared to this.
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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by wprager on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:47 am

    If they sign O'Connor I think that spells the end of the Lehner years. Anderson has three years on his extension, and if that's not enough for O'Connor to get ready then they could sign him to a 1 year extension (he'd be 37, I think). If they signed O'Connor and kept Lehner, then in 3 years' time you'd (potentially) have a goalie controversy.


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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:52 am

    SpezDispensed wrote:Bottom line - where do people, must importantly our brass - see this team next year?  A contender?  A playoff team?  A fringe playoff team?  

    If they truly think the time has come, you need to make some key acquisitions.  

    This team should be a playoff team but, certainly not a contender. Anderson absolutely should be traded now. I agree with Ev. It's interesting how everything is, what have you done for me lately. Anderson has his annual injury vacation, is a head case and his value is right to trade him. If you think the Sens brass are going to make enough acquisitions to make this team a cup contender you're dreaming in technicolour. Some players will have set backs. They are going to remain patient with this team and if that's the case this is not a Cup contender and is merely a playoff team that should win a round.


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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by Ev on Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:55 am

    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:This is how I envision the lineup:

    MacArthur - Turris - Stone
    Hoffman - Zibanejad - Ryan
    Puempel  - Pageau - lazar
    Michalek - smith - Neil
    Chiasson

    I think Condra gets an offer he can't refuse in free agency.  Which sucks because he's been fantastic under Cameron.  

    Methot - Karlsson
    Wiercioch - ?????
    Boro - Ceci

    Cowen traded, Phillips sits, Gryba the depth 7th guy.  That hole on the right side is very, very important.  Need to fill it with a big player.

    Anderson
    Hammond

    With the proviso that we sign o'connor, Lehner is traded.  I'm sorry, but I can't see any scenario where you trade Anderson right now.  

    They're a budget team who needs to choose between one of the goalies. It makes sense to trade the declining asset who makes more money + is injury prone, in my opinion.

    Before this round nobody even remembered Andy existed. He went 2-2 in the playoffs.

    I agree, but for the 3rd straight time Anderson came in and dominated in the playoffs.   That's 3 straight times now where he's taken on the best if the best and gone toe to toe with them.  Plus, that 2-2 record I odd because he lost 2-1 and 1-0.  Can't win without scoring.

    I have confidence in Lehner if they go that way.  The dude is young, super athletic, had worker, but so far he's just not as good as Anderson.  It's a strange scenario for sure.

    Maybe you roll with the two of them and see where you're at at the deadline or next off season. Not sure.

    That's my point though. He played very well but they still have lost 3 out of 4 series with Anderson. You could get slightly worse goaltending but have improved offense + defense. Great teams don't need to rely on a goalie playing over his head
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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:02 am

    Here's what I'd love to see, if EDM was a willing partner of course.

    Eberle - Turris - Stone
    MacArthur - Zibanejad - Ryan
    Puempel - Pageau - lazar
    Chiasson - smith - Condra
    Neil



    Methot - Karlsson
    Wiercioch - Ceci
    Boro - Wideman

    Lehner
    Hammond


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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:17 am

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Bottom line - where do people, must importantly our brass - see this team next year?  A contender?  A playoff team?  A fringe playoff team?  

    If they truly think the time has come, you need to make some key acquisitions.  

    This team should be a playoff team but, certainly not a contender.  Anderson absolutely should be traded now.  I agree with Ev.  It's interesting how everything is, what have you done for me lately.  Anderson has his annual injury vacation, is a head case and his value is right to trade him.  If you think the Sens brass are going to make enough acquisitions to make this team a cup contender you're dreaming in technicolour.  Some players will have set backs.  They are going to remain patient with this team and if that's the case this is not a Cup contender and is merely a playoff team that should win a round.

    If you're a playoff team, then you're a contender, plain and simple. No one sits around plotting to have a 1-2 round playoff team. Either you're building towards something, or you're reached it and going to try to do something with it.

    I can see the case for trading either guy, and it's certainly not cut and dried either way. Whatever else Anderson is, he is also the best goalie, hands down, we've had since at least Hasek, and is probably legitimately a top 3 goalie we've had in franchise history. Lehner has all the potential in the world, but he has done -- how to put this delicately -- absolutely nothing since the 2012 AHL championship. He has not progressed in spite of the many opportunities he's had to take the #1 spot, and what's worse, he's show some 'tude along the way, throwing his teammates under the bus at times when they lose and giving his Dmen the stink eye at other times when a puck deflects in in front of the net. We're not close enough to know it, but I would be very interested in hearing teammates off the record on the subject of Lehner, because I'm not entirely sure he'd be inside their top 2 in terms of goalies they'd want on their roster. And that matters a lot.

    Honestly, for this team to be a contender, what's needed, after re-signing the guys we have now (i.e., Stone, Hoffman, Pageau, Chiasson, Zbad, maybe Condra), is 1 top 4 D and 1 top 6 forward. We will actually have some desirable pieces to move, too, to bring in 1-2 pieces via trade...  Cowen/a goalie/maybe Hoffman or Chiasson/Neil/Legwand/Gryba as potential trading pieces, plus picks etc., and you've got prolly one LTIR (Phillips) and one buyout/demotion (Greening). Or you make one trade for a forward and sign one UFA D. This is not an ambitious or pie in the sky plan. The 1 X factor is what's it going to take to re-sign Stone, Hoffman, and Zbad... Pageau, Chiasson, and Condra will not be pricey, but I could see longer, pricier deals for Stone especially and maybe Zbad.

    As for the Budget... see below.
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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by wprager on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:21 am

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:Here's what I'd love to see, if EDM was a willing partner of course.

    Eberle - Turris - Stone
    MacArthur - Zibanejad - Ryan
    Puempel - Pageau - lazar
    Chiasson - smith - Condra
    Neil



    Methot - Karlsson
    Wiercioch - Ceci
    Boro - Wideman

    Lehner
    Hammond

    So you think subbing Eberle for Michalek is enough to make us a contender while swapping Anderson for Lehner? And who replaces Hoffman's 27 goals and +21? He didn't just score goals, when he was on the ice the opposition very rarely scored. Peumpel-Pageau-Lazar combined probably don't score 27 goals. Lazar finished the year +1 (Condra was +13 by comparison). He needs to spend time in Bingo instead of playing with an even less experienced (NHL) linemate.


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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:32 am

    I never said that team would be a contender. I would move Anderson because they AREN'T contenders. My point is that they're not going to make enough moves to make this team a contender and that they'll be patient with this group. There's nothing to suggest Hoffman will repeat as a 27 plus goal scorer. I think he's a paper tiger and you move him before people realize he's not for real.


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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:36 am

    rooneypoo wrote:
    Cap'n Clutch wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Bottom line - where do people, must importantly our brass - see this team next year?  A contender?  A playoff team?  A fringe playoff team?  

    If they truly think the time has come, you need to make some key acquisitions.  

    This team should be a playoff team but, certainly not a contender.  Anderson absolutely should be traded now.  I agree with Ev.  It's interesting how everything is, what have you done for me lately.  Anderson has his annual injury vacation, is a head case and his value is right to trade him.  If you think the Sens brass are going to make enough acquisitions to make this team a cup contender you're dreaming in technicolour.  Some players will have set backs.  They are going to remain patient with this team and if that's the case this is not a Cup contender and is merely a playoff team that should win a round.

    If you're a playoff team, then you're a contender, plain and simple. No one sits around plotting to have a 1-2 round playoff team. Either you're building towards something, or you're reached it and going to try to do something with it.

    I can see the case for trading either guy, and it's certainly not cut and dried either way. Whatever else Anderson is, he is also the best goalie, hands down, we've had since at least Hasek, and is probably legitimately a top 3 goalie we've had in franchise history. Lehner has all the potential in the world, but he has done -- how to put this delicately -- absolutely nothing since the 2012 AHL championship. He has not progressed in spite of the many opportunities he's had to take the #1 spot, and what's worse, he's show some 'tude along the way, throwing his teammates under the bus at times when they lose and giving his Dmen the stink eye at other times when a puck deflects in in front of the net. We're not close enough to know it, but I would be very interested in hearing teammates off the record on the subject of Lehner, because I'm not entirely sure he'd be inside their top 2 in terms of goalies they'd want on their roster. And that matters a lot.

    Honestly, for this team to be a contender, what's needed, after re-signing the guys we have now (i.e., Stone, Hoffman, Pageau, Chiasson, Zbad, maybe Condra), is 1 top 4 D and 1 top 6 forward. We will actually have some desirable pieces to move, too, to bring in 1-2 pieces via trade...  Cowen/a goalie/maybe Hoffman or Chiasson/Neil/Legwand/Gryba as potential trading pieces, plus picks etc., and you've got prolly one LTIR (Phillips) and one buyout/demotion (Greening). Or you make one trade for a forward and sign one UFA D. This is not an ambitious or pie in the sky plan. The 1 X factor is what's it going to take to re-sign Stone, Hoffman, and Zbad... Pageau, Chiasson, and Condra will not be pricey, but I could see longer, pricier deals for Stone especially and maybe Zbad.

    As for the Budget... see below.

    Good luck to you then. If you honestly believe your suggestions will be enough for this team to be in the finals and win then I don't think I can say much to you. Apparently it's all or nothing for you. You're either a playoff team and you are making it to the final or you're not. Not that cut and dried. GMs say all the time that this is a playoff team or this is a team that can go deep or this is a team that can win a round or two or this is a cup contender. It's not playoffs equals Stanley cup finals or you just don't make it at all.


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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by wprager on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:39 am

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:I never said that team would be a contender.  I would move Anderson because they AREN'T contenders.  My point is that they're not going to make enough moves to make this team a contender and that they'll be patient with this group.  There's nothing to suggest Hoffman will repeat as a 27 plus goal scorer.  I think he's a paper tiger and you move him before people realize he's not for real.

    I don't disagree, but who replaces that offense?


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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 am

    Eberle had 24 goals last season and 28 the season before that on a horrible Oilers team.  Put him in Ottawa with Karlsson feeding him stretch passes with him on the first line and first unit PP and you've replaced that offense and then some.


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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by rooneypoo on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:43 am

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:I never said that team would be a contender.  I would move Anderson because they AREN'T contenders.  My point is that they're not going to make enough moves to make this team a contender and that they'll be patient with this group.  There's nothing to suggest Hoffman will repeat as a 27 plus goal scorer.  I think he's a paper tiger and you move him before people realize he's not for real.

    A playoff team = a contender. This team is a playoff team as it stands, something that isn't up for debate... making the playoffs makes you a playoff team, and making the playoffs makes you a contender.

    The goalie thing could go either way, as I said, with Lehner's future very much up in the air. As for Hoffman, I view him as either someone you trade now, or someone you sign to a very short deal to see what we have.
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    Re: The Expendables - Ottawa Edition

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:47 am

    You'd also have Puempel for a full season, who was also showing growth before his injury.


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