Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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    Ev
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Ev on Sun May 10, 2015 8:50 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:I don't care about highest return. I care about what's vest for the team as a whole. What makes us better as far as winning a cup. That means short and long term.

    I care about highest return because that is what will make us better. We will win regardless of who is in net if we build a good team Smile

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Sun May 10, 2015 9:03 pm

    Need to upgrade one position on D in a big way. Other than that I like our team. Need to shed some dead weight obviously.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by spader on Sun May 10, 2015 10:39 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I don't care about highest return. I care about what's vest for the team as a whole. What makes us better as far as winning a cup. That means short and long term.

    I care about highest return because that is what will make us better. We will win regardless of who is in net if we build a good team Smile

    Trading Karlsson will get the highest return, but won't make us better. You do ok in that logic course, Ev?
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun May 10, 2015 11:14 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:Need to upgrade one position on D in a big way.  Other than that I like our team.  Need to shed some dead weight obviously.
    That and a clutch LW with a cup ring and we should be good to go and evaluate.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sun May 10, 2015 11:46 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Need to upgrade one position on D in a big way.  Other than that I like our team.  Need to shed some dead weight obviously.
    That and a clutch LW with a cup ring  and we should be good to go and evaluate.

    That about covers it. Add a couple of centers maybe a rw or two and you're good to go.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Mon May 11, 2015 1:07 am

    Flo The Action wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Need to upgrade one position on D in a big way.  Other than that I like our team.  Need to shed some dead weight obviously.
    That and a clutch LW with a cup ring  and we should be good to go and evaluate.

    Maybe. I don't know where you're putting this LW though. Assuming at this point that Hoffman isn't being moved, where does he go?

    I guess where Condra is, but if they let him walk they must be looking at Puempel to fill that spot on line 3. Michalek would at that point be a 4th line LW.

    I'm not sure why they keep talking about a top 6. Get us a big time D-man and watch the rest fall into place IMO.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon May 11, 2015 1:25 am

    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Need to upgrade one position on D in a big way.  Other than that I like our team.  Need to shed some dead weight obviously.
    That and a clutch LW with a cup ring  and we should be good to go and evaluate.

    Maybe.  I don't know where you're putting this LW though.  Assuming at this point that Hoffman isn't being moved, where does he go?

    I guess where Condra is, but if they let him walk they must be looking at Puempel to fill that spot on line 3.  Michalek would at that point be a 4th line LW.

    I'm not sure why they keep talking about a top 6.  Get us a big time D-man and watch the rest fall into place IMO.
    well it sure depends on Hoffman for sure but I still see Hoffman possibly on that third line. Or maybe a guy like Williams that can interchange with Hoffman from the 2nd to the third. Injuries will happen. (Probably michalek) and pumpel will be up here in no time.
    I don't see much room for contra anymore. I really like him but at best he's a fourth liner who plays the PK. But we've got guys needing a shot.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Ev on Mon May 11, 2015 6:48 am

    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I don't care about highest return. I care about what's vest for the team as a whole. What makes us better as far as winning a cup. That means short and long term.

    I care about highest return because that is what will make us better. We will win regardless of who is in net if we build a good team Smile

    Trading Karlsson will get the highest return, but won't make us better. You do ok in that logic course, Ev?

    That makes no sense
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Mon May 11, 2015 6:57 am

    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I don't care about highest return. I care about what's vest for the team as a whole. What makes us better as far as winning a cup. That means short and long term.

    I care about highest return because that is what will make us better. We will win regardless of who is in net if we build a good team Smile

    Trading Karlsson will get the highest return, but won't make us better. You do ok in that logic course, Ev?

    Thing is we don't have another Kalrsson. Also until they change the rules there's only one goal, so only one goalie. That is why you trade one of our two (neither is good in a backup role).


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Mon May 11, 2015 7:06 am

    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Need to upgrade one position on D in a big way.  Other than that I like our team.  Need to shed some dead weight obviously.
    That and a clutch LW with a cup ring  and we should be good to go and evaluate.

    Maybe.  I don't know where you're putting this LW though.  Assuming at this point that Hoffman isn't being moved, where does he go?

    I guess where Condra is, but if they let him walk they must be looking at Puempel to fill that spot on line 3.  Michalek would at that point be a 4th line LW.

    I'm not sure why they keep talking about a top 6.  Get us a big time D-man and watch the rest fall into place IMO.

    Because you need 6 top-six players and at least another two that are ready. When Stone was chopped down we were hurting. Also, at this point, Michalek is top-nine, not top-six. MacArthur is also a borderline top-six player -- has to be a career year for him to produce at a top-line pace, and we don't know what happens next year. Hoffman is in a similar position in that we don't know what happens next year -- I doubt he is a 30 goal scorer, so how far does he drop off? Stone, as well, this was his rookie season, we have no idea what happens next. Legwand was brought in for this reason but did not work out at all.

    So, yeah, we need a top-six player.

    As for help on D, we were still giving up too many shots on goal.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Mon May 11, 2015 7:10 am

    Apparently Buddy Robinson's been playing a lot on the PK down in Bingo. Big, long stick, surprisingly quick for a big guy. He doesn't appear to have that mean streak or aggressiveness, but as a PK specialist, maybe he can replace Condra.

    Grant's also been developing into a PK specialist. Perhaps a replacement for Smith, at some point.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Mon May 11, 2015 9:29 am

    wprager wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Need to upgrade one position on D in a big way.  Other than that I like our team.  Need to shed some dead weight obviously.
    That and a clutch LW with a cup ring  and we should be good to go and evaluate.

    Maybe.  I don't know where you're putting this LW though.  Assuming at this point that Hoffman isn't being moved, where does he go?

    I guess where Condra is, but if they let him walk they must be looking at Puempel to fill that spot on line 3.  Michalek would at that point be a 4th line LW.

    I'm not sure why they keep talking about a top 6.  Get us a big time D-man and watch the rest fall into place IMO.

    Because you need 6 top-six players and at least another two that are ready.  When Stone was chopped down we were hurting.  Also, at this point, Michalek is top-nine, not top-six.  MacArthur is also a borderline top-six player -- has to be a career year for him to produce at a top-line pace, and we don't know what happens next year.  Hoffman is in a similar position in that we don't know what happens next year -- I doubt he is a 30 goal scorer, so how far does he drop off?  Stone, as well, this was his rookie season, we have no idea what happens next.  Legwand was brought in for this reason but did not work out at all.  

    So, yeah, we need a top-six player.

    As for help on D, we were still giving up too many shots on goal.  

    MacArthur is definitely a top 6 player. I can't see an argument where he's not. More than anything he's a perfect 2nd line winger, but that's fine if he continues to mesh with Turris and stone.

    What they're looking at presumably, is the wing position next to Zibanejad, but if they're keeping Hoffman, that's his to lose.

    So at that point you need a Condra replacement, which is probably Michalek when all is said and done and then you make sure you give Puempel a chance on line 4 to start.

    We're pretty full up front unless they plan on moving Hoffman, there's not much to be done.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Mon May 11, 2015 1:48 pm

    We've had CMac here two seasons.  Season one he was the best UFA signing (value) any of us could remember.  If you recall, this past season he struggled.  According to this an average 2nd line winger scores 17 goals and 37 points, which is roughly what MacArthur scored this past season, although in just 62 games.  He also dropped off from +12 to -6, while the Sens, as a team, improved their goal differential by over 50.  Last season he scored almost at the level of the average 1st line winger.  

    So, ok, while it looks like he's top-six in production, it's not clear if he's top-line (likely best suited to 2nd line).  But this assumes that he rebounds.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Mon May 11, 2015 1:50 pm

    Anyhow, regardless of how you view MacArthur we've got six top-six players if you include Hoffman, but if injuries hit you've got your third line, Michalek and Puempel. And also your top line is likely better suited to be your second line.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by spader on Mon May 11, 2015 2:41 pm

    wprager wrote:Anyhow, regardless of how you view MacArthur we've got six top-six players if you include Hoffman, but if injuries hit you've got your third line, Michalek and Puempel.  And also your top line is likely better suited to be your second line.

    The Sens seem to have two second lines. Until ZBad takes that next step and Ryan gets going (and keeps going for a season), it's going to be hard to call that a 1st line, but that's basically how it's pencilled in. Mac-Turris-Stone is the second line in that scenario. 

    I for one hope that's how it shakes out. I wouldn't be surprised to see players like Puempel and Lazar (sorry, SSF) taking shifts in the top 6 when injuries hit. 9MM can also take shifts up there for short stints. Even JGP can move up the lineup at times to provide a spark or replace an injured player. 

    Assuming Hoffman doesn't get moved (and I really think it would take a big offer to pry a guy with those numbers away), the top 6 is set; the substitutes are basically set. 

    That's my 2 cents.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by tim1_2 on Mon May 11, 2015 2:53 pm

    We do have two second lines, which wouldn't be a problem if our third line was scoring, but that didn't happen much this year...if we could have three second lines, that'd be fine.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Mon May 11, 2015 2:58 pm

    wprager wrote:We've had CMac here two seasons.  Season one he was the best UFA signing (value) any of us could remember.  If you recall, this past season he struggled.  According to this an average 2nd line winger scores 17 goals and 37 points, which is roughly what MacArthur scored this past season, although in just 62 games.  He also dropped off from +12 to -6, while the Sens, as a team, improved their goal differential by over 50.  Last season he scored almost at the level of the average 1st line winger.  

    So, ok, while it looks like he's top-six in production, it's not clear if he's top-line (likely best suited to 2nd line).  But this assumes that he rebounds.

    While I agree in theory, there's more to it than that this time around. MacArthur and Turris jave always been good together.  The first year he was here, he had solid numbers in 24 goals, 55 points, this past season he dipped because Turris and he both got stone cold at the same time and because he struggled for ~5 games coming back from the concussion.  Fair enough, but the real factor to consider, IMO, is not there are 3 members of that line - all of whom can help prop the others up.  Stone being cemented there (or one would think) will help get full value out of Turris and MacArthur production-wise.

    Also, when doing any kind of looking back on stats, remember that now we have a real 3rd line. Even if we lose Condra, which I still maintain is a mistake, we have Pageau who is ready to bust out offensively, Lazar who will have a lot more confidence coming in and one of Michalek/Puempel, Prince or even a new addition via trade or free agency.

    The addition of Pageau full time changes the lineup in a huge way.  It also allows Cameron to play Smith at C on line 4 full time, instead of masquerading him as a winger, top 6 or a 3rd line C.

    This next year, I think this team takes a big step forward - and I wouldn't put it past them to have 7 forwards that hit 20 goals along with Karlsson.  That's not that big a stretch IMO with Zibanejad getting more and more confidence, Turris, Stone, MacArthur, Ryan getting back into shape and having a big year, Hoffman at least using that speed and shot to pot 20 and the wildcard, which would be one of the third liners.  My money's on Pageau.

    EDIT: A lot of Sens fans seem to HATE Michalek, but he did very well once he hit his stride, so that's another goal scoring threat.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Mon May 11, 2015 3:17 pm

    Assuming we see the same faces next season, I think there will be a lot of shuffling in "Middle-6" until a line is found that can match the production of the Turris line.

    Having said that, I find it pretty useless to pencil guys in to different situations without knowing what happens with certain guys in the fairly near future. These are discussions that will have to wait til after the Draft and even free-agency.

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