VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Share

    Poll

    Who is Ottawa's female parental unit diddling #4 prospect (under 25 NHL GP)?

    [ 4 ]
    40% [40%] 
    [ 2 ]
    20% [20%] 
    [ 1 ]
    10% [10%] 
    [ 2 ]
    20% [20%] 
    [ 1 ]
    10% [10%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 
    [ 0 ]
    0% [0%] 

    Total Votes: 10

    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 21017
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by Ev on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:03 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Don't understand how you can put White/Chabot ahead of Prince. Prince is currently at a point where he is much more likely to succeed in the NHL. Almost a point per game last season. White/Chabot all hype right now and the fact is we're basing our opinion on a few years of CHL experience and scout analysis.

    Prince is more NHL ready and will have more of an impact at the NHL if given a chance over Chabot/White. Therefore he is a better prospect right now.

    I've said this before but if the Sens were trading a piece last June 26 would they want to trade Shane Prince or the 18th/21st pick? Would any team trade their first round pick to get Shane Prince? I don't think so.

    Of course Prince is more NHL ready but that doesn't mean he's a better prospect. He's never been highly touted like Colin White. Will he have more of an impact at the NHL level than two guys taken in the Top 21 of a very good draft? Who knows but right now that's unlikely.
    First round picks are funny that way though. The minute you draft said player he isn't worth that 1st rounder anymore. You probably couldn't trade Chabot in January for a first rounder anymore. You're logic is flawed buddy.

    It's not flawed, but OK. If the player keeps on developing as expected than yes they would be worth a 1st next year.
    It's arguable for sure but value can go down. And I would argue that more often than not value drops a little. With a great progressions from a player it might go up. But I doubt it's most often the case until there's proof the player will become something else.

    the point is I am 100% positive the Sens would not trade Chabot or White for Prince if he was on another team.

    Flo The Action
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 13356
    Registration date : 2008-12-18

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:06 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Don't understand how you can put White/Chabot ahead of Prince. Prince is currently at a point where he is much more likely to succeed in the NHL. Almost a point per game last season. White/Chabot all hype right now and the fact is we're basing our opinion on a few years of CHL experience and scout analysis.

    Prince is more NHL ready and will have more of an impact at the NHL if given a chance over Chabot/White. Therefore he is a better prospect right now.

    I've said this before but if the Sens were trading a piece last June 26 would they want to trade Shane Prince or the 18th/21st pick? Would any team trade their first round pick to get Shane Prince? I don't think so.

    Of course Prince is more NHL ready but that doesn't mean he's a better prospect. He's never been highly touted like Colin White. Will he have more of an impact at the NHL level than two guys taken in the Top 21 of a very good draft? Who knows but right now that's unlikely.
    First round picks are funny that way though. The minute you draft said player he isn't worth that 1st rounder anymore. You probably couldn't trade Chabot in January for a first rounder anymore. You're logic is flawed buddy.

    It's not flawed, but OK. If the player keeps on developing as expected than yes they would be worth a 1st next year.
    It's arguable for sure but value can go down. And I would argue that more often than not value drops a little. With a great progressions from a player it might go up. But I doubt it's most often the case until there's proof the player will become something else.

    the point is I am 100% positive the Sens would not trade Chabot or White for Prince if he was on another team.
    Sexy new toy. But yes they probably have more faith in the new product. They also don't have the said players in the organization for a few years to base an estimate on what they will become. So right now they only view their upside. With Prince they have a much better view of what they have. He was drafted in the 3rd round right? Well I'm sure they are still very happy with that move. He does seem poised to make the jump. That's a big win for the org.

    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 21017
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by Ev on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:14 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Don't understand how you can put White/Chabot ahead of Prince. Prince is currently at a point where he is much more likely to succeed in the NHL. Almost a point per game last season. White/Chabot all hype right now and the fact is we're basing our opinion on a few years of CHL experience and scout analysis.

    Prince is more NHL ready and will have more of an impact at the NHL if given a chance over Chabot/White. Therefore he is a better prospect right now.

    I've said this before but if the Sens were trading a piece last June 26 would they want to trade Shane Prince or the 18th/21st pick? Would any team trade their first round pick to get Shane Prince? I don't think so.

    Of course Prince is more NHL ready but that doesn't mean he's a better prospect. He's never been highly touted like Colin White. Will he have more of an impact at the NHL level than two guys taken in the Top 21 of a very good draft? Who knows but right now that's unlikely.
    First round picks are funny that way though. The minute you draft said player he isn't worth that 1st rounder anymore. You probably couldn't trade Chabot in January for a first rounder anymore. You're logic is flawed buddy.

    It's not flawed, but OK. If the player keeps on developing as expected than yes they would be worth a 1st next year.
    It's arguable for sure but value can go down. And I would argue that more often than not value drops a little. With a great progressions from a player it might go up. But I doubt it's most often the case until there's proof the player will become something else.

    the point is I am 100% positive the Sens would not trade Chabot or White for Prince if he was on another team.
    Sexy new toy. But yes they probably have more faith in the new product. They also don't have the said players in the organization for a few years to base an estimate on what they will become. So right now they only view their upside. With Prince they have a much better view of what they have. He was drafted in the 3rd round right? Well I'm sure they are still very happy with that move. He does seem poised to make the jump. That's a big win for the org.

    these guys are paid to evaluate talent for a living and project the player's upside. They have scouted their potential picks a ton. I projected Shane Prince as an NHLer myself and that will look correct, but his upside is not that of a Colin White or a top D like Thomas Chabot.
    avatar
    spader
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 10071
    Age : 37
    Location : Toronto
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2009-07-09

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by spader on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:23 pm

    Rundblad got drafted in the first round, then got traded for a mid first. Not sure if that helps the discussion, but it seems to fit.
    avatar
    wprager
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Number of posts : 48304
    Age : 56
    Location : Kanata
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by wprager on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:28 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Don't understand how you can put White/Chabot ahead of Prince. Prince is currently at a point where he is much more likely to succeed in the NHL. Almost a point per game last season. White/Chabot all hype right now and the fact is we're basing our opinion on a few years of CHL experience and scout analysis.

    Prince is more NHL ready and will have more of an impact at the NHL if given a chance over Chabot/White. Therefore he is a better prospect right now.

    I've said this before but if the Sens were trading a piece last June 26 would they want to trade Shane Prince or the 18th/21st pick? Would any team trade their first round pick to get Shane Prince? I don't think so.

    Of course Prince is more NHL ready but that doesn't mean he's a better prospect. He's never been highly touted like Colin White. Will he have more of an impact at the NHL level than two guys taken in the Top 21 of a very good draft? Who knows but right now that's unlikely.
    First round picks are funny that way though. The minute you draft said player he isn't worth that 1st rounder anymore. You probably couldn't trade Chabot in January for a first rounder anymore. You're logic is flawed buddy.

    I've been saying that for a while. That mid-1st round pick is worth more because every GM worth his salary thinks he can do better than every one else and get that gem. The probability of drafting someone at #21 who is (or soon will be) better than Prince is probably not all that high, but the possibility is there, and that's why these picks are (over) valued.


    _________________
    Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
    - Dicky Fox
    avatar
    wprager
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Number of posts : 48304
    Age : 56
    Location : Kanata
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by wprager on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:32 pm

    Ev wrote:
    these guys are paid to evaluate talent for a living and project the player's upside. They have scouted their potential picks a ton. I projected Shane Prince as an NHLer myself and that will look correct, but his upside is not that of a Colin White or a top D like Thomas Chabot.

    Yet these same guys who are paid to evaluate talent are 100% wrong about 2 out of 3 times outside of the top-10.

    Yeah, I'm making those numbers up on the fly, but they probably aren't that far from reality. Every player picked between #11 and #21 is picked as a possible top-six player. How many of them actually end up playing in that role?


    _________________
    Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
    - Dicky Fox
    avatar
    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 21017
    Age : 26
    Location : We The North
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by Ev on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:35 pm

    The likelihood of Prince becoming an impactful NHLer are less than that of Chabot and White. Based on historical probabilities.

    avatar
    wprager
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Number of posts : 48304
    Age : 56
    Location : Kanata
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by wprager on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:35 pm

    For the record I went with White. His numbers weren't great but they weren't bad, and he had both mono and a nagging wrist injury. I especially liked that article where they talked about his commitment to strive to be better. He *will* put in the extra hours to get faster, stronger and improve his skating/puck handling and shooting. High hockey IQ, not glaring deficiencies and a strong work ethic.


    _________________
    Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
    - Dicky Fox

    DefenceWinsChampionships
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 2032
    Age : 88
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-05-23

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:50 pm

    Maybe for next year we should sort our prospects by forward and defenceman. What's more valueable, a forward that scores 60 points or a d-man that scores 25 but is a +30?


    Last edited by DefenceWinsChampionships on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 21017
    Age : 26
    Location : We The North
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by Ev on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:51 pm

    I went with Chabot because the Sens picked him over White
    avatar
    Flo The Action
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 13356
    Age : 41
    Location : montreal
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-12-18

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:57 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Don't understand how you can put White/Chabot ahead of Prince. Prince is currently at a point where he is much more likely to succeed in the NHL. Almost a point per game last season. White/Chabot all hype right now and the fact is we're basing our opinion on a few years of CHL experience and scout analysis.

    Prince is more NHL ready and will have more of an impact at the NHL if given a chance over Chabot/White. Therefore he is a better prospect right now.

    I've said this before but if the Sens were trading a piece last June 26 would they want to trade Shane Prince or the 18th/21st pick? Would any team trade their first round pick to get Shane Prince? I don't think so.

    Of course Prince is more NHL ready but that doesn't mean he's a better prospect. He's never been highly touted like Colin White. Will he have more of an impact at the NHL level than two guys taken in the Top 21 of a very good draft? Who knows but right now that's unlikely.
    First round picks are funny that way though. The minute you draft said player he isn't worth that 1st rounder anymore. You probably couldn't trade Chabot in January for a first rounder anymore. You're logic is flawed buddy.

    It's not flawed, but OK. If the player keeps on developing as expected than yes they would be worth a 1st next year.
    It's arguable for sure but value can go down. And I would argue that more often than not value drops a little. With a great progressions from a player it might go up. But I doubt it's most often the case until there's proof the player will become something else.

    the point is I am 100% positive the Sens would not trade Chabot or White for Prince if he was on another team.
    Sexy new toy. But yes they probably have more faith in the new product. They also don't have the said players in the organization for a few years to base an estimate on what they will become. So right now they only view their upside. With Prince they have a much better view of what they have. He was drafted in the 3rd round right? Well I'm sure they are still very happy with that move. He does seem poised to make the jump. That's a big win for the org.

    these guys are paid to evaluate talent for a living and project the player's upside. They have scouted their potential picks a ton. I projected Shane Prince as an NHLer myself and that will look correct, but his upside is not that of a Colin White or a top D like Thomas Chabot.
    I wouldn't agree necessarily. For me Prince is going to have to be a top 6 forward type to stick in the NHL and that's also how the sens view him. White might turn out to be a 3rd line player if he doesn't have a positive progressions, he will be very effective but there's no guarantee he can become more than that. A few years from now the upside on Prince might have proven to be higher.
    avatar
    spader
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 10071
    Age : 37
    Location : Toronto
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2009-07-09

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by spader on Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:10 pm

    Ev wrote:The likelihood of Prince becoming an impactful NHLer are less than that of Chabot and White. Based on historical probabilities.


    I find that a bit silly. Stone has basically zero chance of being an impactful NHLer based on historical probabilities. The reality is that some players develop well and end up being better than their draft position.
    avatar
    spader
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 10071
    Age : 37
    Location : Toronto
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2009-07-09

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by spader on Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:12 pm

    Ev wrote:I went with Chabot because the Sens picked him over White

    I'm looking forward to getting a better idea of what kind of player Chabot is going to be. Last draft was underwhelming (to date), but I'm very excited about this past one. I think we can all agree that the Sens have a pretty full cupboard right now.
    avatar
    spader
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 10071
    Age : 37
    Location : Toronto
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2009-07-09

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by spader on Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:15 pm

    One player we don't really talk about is Gagne. The Sens traded up to get him. I wonder what they think he'll become.
    avatar
    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 21017
    Age : 26
    Location : We The North
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by Ev on Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:26 pm

    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:The likelihood of Prince becoming an impactful NHLer are less than that of Chabot and White. Based on historical probabilities.


    I find that a bit silly. Stone has basically zero chance of being an impactful NHLer based on historical probabilities. The reality is that some players develop well and end up being better than their draft position.

    right. I'm just talking about odds here.

    DefenceWinsChampionships
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 2032
    Age : 88
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-05-23

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:18 pm

    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:The likelihood of Prince becoming an impactful NHLer are less than that of Chabot and White. Based on historical probabilities.


    I find that a bit silly. Stone has basically zero chance of being an impactful NHLer based on historical probabilities. The reality is that some players develop well and end up being better than their draft position.

    Based on the logic of this thread many of you would have put Lazar before Stone. Does Lazar still project to be a better NHLer than Stone? 1st rd vs 6th rd pick. How did we vote last year?
    avatar
    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 21017
    Age : 26
    Location : We The North
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by Ev on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:23 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:The likelihood of Prince becoming an impactful NHLer are less than that of Chabot and White. Based on historical probabilities.


    I find that a bit silly. Stone has basically zero chance of being an impactful NHLer based on historical probabilities. The reality is that some players develop well and end up being better than their draft position.

    Based on the logic of this thread many of you would have put Lazar before Stone. Does Lazar still project to be a better NHLer than Stone? 1st rd vs 6th rd pick. How did we vote last year?

    I had Lazar over Stone last year. In terms of overall ability and impact I think I still might. None of this has anything to do with Prince because Stone was clearly ahead of where Prince is at now.
    avatar
    SeawaySensFan
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 24783
    Age : 46
    Location : Cornwall, ON
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-12-02

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:28 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:The likelihood of Prince becoming an impactful NHLer are less than that of Chabot and White. Based on historical probabilities.


    I find that a bit silly. Stone has basically zero chance of being an impactful NHLer based on historical probabilities. The reality is that some players develop well and end up being better than their draft position.

    Based on the logic of this thread many of you would have put Lazar before Stone. Does Lazar still project to be a better NHLer than Stone? 1st rd vs 6th rd pick. How did we vote last year?

    Lazar is barely an NHLer at all, at this point.

    Sponsored content

    Re: VOTE - Ottawa Senators Top Prospects: #4 (2015)

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:45 pm