Elections

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    tim1_2
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    Re: Elections

    Post by tim1_2 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:03 am

    Dung I missed the election while camping. Did the Green Party win?

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    Re: Elections

    Post by wprager on Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:17 am

    LeCaptain wrote:All I know is this 2-class citizenship BS does not belong here.
    This government needs to GTFO.

    If I could have a nickel for every time someone mentions a specific fault with Harper (as in *not* general party or general politics or related to global economic issues or etc.) I think I'd still have nothing in my pocket.

    Yesterday some silly folk singer (Raffi? Ravi?) was interviewed by a host who was clearly a conservative supporter (in a smug, stupid way) and he did ask him a surprisingly astute question: back in 2011 this same singer didn't have anything bad to say about the Conervatives or Harper, yet here he was writing songs about how bad they/he were, so what, specifically, happened to change his views? And, yet again, like I've heard a million times, the same non-specific accusations and reference to how bad it's been, economically.

    Well, guess what, Harper and the Conservatives had nothing to do with the Greek economic calamity, or the Chinese market meltdown or the price of crude dropping or the housing market crash in the US. Canada has survived better than most. Austerity, IMO, is the way to go right now. My salary has not been going up for quite a while and everything else has -- somehow I manage. The government should do the same. Spend when your debt is under control (and not just when you have a budget surplus). The low interest rates are fooling the socialists into thinking we can start spending like a drunk sailor once again. Remember not that long ago when 30 cents on every dollar collected was spent just to service the interest on the debt? Guess what, the debt *now* is even higher than before, and these interest rates aren't going to be around forever. I'm not suggesting we should be trying to eliminate debt completely but we should be trying to at least get it to a point where we can formulate a plan for eliminating it.

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    Re: Elections

    Post by Vandelay on Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:22 pm

    You sound like so many conservative supporters I know. Somehow only hearing what you want to hear. It was clearly mentioned above your post- the tactics used to pass bill C51 should be enough for anyone to avoid voting blue. The way the bill was pushed through was disgusting. The insinuations made by passing the bill, even worse.
    You want general party platform issues? How about foreign policy? I'm so tired of having to listen to Harper trying to sell his fear mongering tactics. I have family that support Harper because they feel it's the best bet in order to keep their family and kids safe. Because if someone other than the Harper government comes into power, the gates will be thrown wide open and all those angry muslim/ arab/ middle-eastern/ non-western/ non-white/ non- upper class aliens will start streaming in...and then we'll have things like the parliament shooting happening on a daily basis.
    Harper is able to sell this sleezy message because of ignorance. People choose not to see what's going on. People wonder why there are streams of migrants making their way up through Europe because they quickly forget about what happened several years ago (and what a nice news story it was at the time). Most of us would lose our minds if we had to spend a few days in a refugee camp. Try spending a few years there. We should be doing everything we can to help with this crisis. I'm not saying let them all in. And neither are the NDP or libs. Yet that's what Harper is telling people. His classist attitude has always been nauseating but lately, it's reached a whole new level.
    Anyway, I could go on for days but I can't. Just saw your post and couldn't let you off the hook that easily.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by LeCaptain on Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:38 pm

    wprager wrote:
    LeCaptain wrote:All I know is this 2-class citizenship BS does not belong here.
    This government needs to GTFO.

    If I could have a nickel for every time someone mentions a specific fault with Harper (as in *not* general party or general politics or related to global economic issues or etc.) I think I'd still have nothing in my pocket.

    Yesterday some silly folk singer (Raffi?  Ravi?) was interviewed by a host who was clearly a conservative supporter (in a smug, stupid way) and he did ask him a surprisingly astute question: back in 2011 this same singer didn't have anything bad to say about the Conervatives or Harper, yet here he was writing songs about how bad they/he were, so what, specifically, happened to change his views?  And, yet again, like I've heard a million times, the same non-specific accusations and reference to how bad it's been, economically.

    Well, guess what, Harper and the Conservatives had nothing to do with the Greek economic calamity, or the Chinese market meltdown or the price of crude dropping or the housing market crash in the US.  Canada has survived better than most.  Austerity, IMO, is the way to go right now.  My salary has not been going up for quite a while and everything else has -- somehow I manage.  The government should do the same.  Spend when your debt is under control (and not just when you have a budget surplus).  The low interest rates are fooling the socialists into thinking we can start spending like a drunk sailor once again.  Remember not that long ago when 30 cents on every dollar collected was spent just to service the interest on the debt?  Guess what, the debt *now* is even higher than before, and these interest rates aren't going to be around forever.  I'm not suggesting we should be trying to eliminate debt completely but we should be trying to at least get it to a point where we can formulate a plan for eliminating it.  

    Economy is always the number 1 subject when it comes to elections.
    In this case, it should not. The Bill C-51 is very serious and it could be very damaging for a lot of people in the next few years if we let it go on.
    Haven't people learned their lessons with the NSA and "The Program"?
    This is the same kind of BS and I would hope Canadians are not as ignorant as the majority of people south of the border and let this happen.
    It's amazing how a couple attacks on Parliament can have this big of an impact on Immigration.
    Another round of Harper and we'll see the equivalent of the Patriot Act in a couple months.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:53 pm

    Nice to hear so many informed and intelligent opinions in here. Now if most of canada can think like people in here we will be rid of Harper.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by wprager on Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:14 am

    Trudeau surrounds himself with those who do not oppose his views. That does't sound like a good recipe.


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    Re: Elections

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:32 am

    wprager wrote:Trudeau surrounds himself with those who do not oppose his views.  That does't sound like a good recipe.
    Or he surrounds himself with people that help build his platform?

    I dare say the Conservative party does the same thing. I wish there was more opposition in the Conservative party.

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    Re: Elections

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:30 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:Nice to hear so many informed and intelligent opinions in here. Now if most of canada can think like people in here we will be rid of Harper.

    So anyone that supports the Conservative party platform is uneducated or illogical in some way? Interesting that... almost Harper-esque.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by Ev on Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:34 pm

    lol I love anti Harper people.

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    Re: Elections

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:40 pm

    I'm not voting Conservative this time out but the amount of crap Harper takes is completely BS. He's been able to keep Canada's head above water for almost a decade while the rest of the world economy (short of a very select group of countries) has completely crumbled and there are endless wars going on because of it.

    He's been a good PM and has way more to offer than the supply teacher Trudeau and career politician Mulciar (who's been part of every party and just wants power).

    Two reasons I am not voting Conservative, biggest being pot. The other is I don't think there are enough sharp minds behind Harper and Trudeau can at least be controlled by those who are smarter than him, those people being the majority of his party. It's too bad Garneau wasn't elected Liberal leader because at that point it would have been an easy decision.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by Oglethorpe on Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:56 pm

    I am having a tough time deciding this year. I have eliminated all 3 parties several times over.

    In the past I have usually voted Conservative but almost a decade of power is too long for anyone and the party has lost some of the more centrist influences in John Baird, Jim Flaherty, etc.. Bill C-51 goes a little too far in my mind and needs some alterations and the ridiculous Income splitting for families is bad economic policy intended to garner votes at the cost of good governance.

    The NDP has some interesting ideas but pulling out of the TPP and their Cap and Trade policies would destroy every last manufacturing job in this country and drive the GDP into negative growth. Mulcair comes off as a smug, power hungry career politician who I fear will pander to Quebec at the cost of the rest of the country.

    The Liberal party has the same terrifying environmental policies as the NDP and is so urban centric that the rural population might as well not exist. They seem to flip flop between NDP and Conservative policies so much that I worry they will govern by opinion polls.

    I am leaning Liberal, but don't want a majority for any of these clowns so I am in no man's land at the moment.

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    Re: Elections

    Post by NEELY on Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:57 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:I am having a tough time deciding this year.  I have eliminated all 3 parties several times over.  

    In the past I have usually voted Conservative but almost a decade of power is too long for anyone and the party has lost some of the more centrist influences in John Baird, Jim Flaherty, etc..  Bill C-51 goes a little too far in my mind and needs some alterations and the ridiculous Income splitting for families is bad economic policy intended to garner votes at the cost of good governance.

    The NDP has some interesting ideas but pulling out of the TPP and their Cap and Trade policies would destroy every last manufacturing job in this country and drive the GDP into negative growth.  Mulcair comes off as a smug, power hungry career politician who I fear will pander to Quebec at the cost of the rest of the country.

    The Liberal party has the same terrifying environmental policies as the NDP and is so urban centric that the rural population might as well not exist.  They seem to flip flop between NDP and Conservative policies so much that I worry they will govern by opinion polls.

    I am leaning Liberal, but don't want a majority for any of these clowns so I am in no man's land at the moment.

    This sums up my thoughts perfectly. A little scary actually because that's word for word what I think. I'll just add in Peter McKay as well. Harper doesn't have a ton of people behind him to push him which isn't a good thing.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:58 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:Nice to hear so many informed and intelligent opinions in here. Now if most of canada can think like people in here we will be rid of Harper.

    So anyone that supports the Conservative party platform is uneducated or illogical in some way?  Interesting that... almost Harper-esque.

    Actually voting conservative to me is unethical. I believe they do not have the best intentions for the people of this country. So yes to vote for them I think is a serious lack of moral judgment.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:11 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:I am having a tough time deciding this year.  I have eliminated all 3 parties several times over.  

    In the past I have usually voted Conservative but almost a decade of power is too long for anyone and the party has lost some of the more centrist influences in John Baird, Jim Flaherty, etc..  Bill C-51 goes a little too far in my mind and needs some alterations and the ridiculous Income splitting for families is bad economic policy intended to garner votes at the cost of good governance.

    The NDP has some interesting ideas but pulling out of the TPP and their Cap and Trade policies would destroy every last manufacturing job in this country and drive the GDP into negative growth.  Mulcair comes off as a smug, power hungry career politician who I fear will pander to Quebec at the cost of the rest of the country.

    The Liberal party has the same terrifying environmental policies as the NDP and is so urban centric that the rural population might as well not exist.  They seem to flip flop between NDP and Conservative policies so much that I worry they will govern by opinion polls.

    I am leaning Liberal, but don't want a majority for any of these clowns so I am in no man's land at the moment.

    This sums up my thoughts perfectly.  A little scary actually because that's word for word what I think.  I'll just add in Peter McKay as well.  Harper doesn't have a ton of people behind him to push him which isn't a good thing.

    See this is where I differ than all political parties. I actually do believe that Canadians stand to gain from the TPP. I do believe that liberalizing towards free markets is a good thing. I also thing it is protectionist and foolhardy to think that we can protect all manufacturing jobs. I think it costs Canadians way too much to do so in terms of not being competitive on a world market and at the detriment of our taxes.
    The problem is that a conservative government that is for these things completely ignores one of the main arguments in opening up to trading. You have to help restructure your economy and invest in transforming your economy away from uncompetitive markets. You have to invest a lot in education and transition into new industries. Something the conservatives believe will happen by magic. That's why I think it's ridiculous and harmful. The NDP or liberal might have different views but internationally I don't see how they don't follow through on the TPP but I'm sure they are much more likely to actually provide a safety net for transforming economy. Also they are more likely to engage in environmental protection when it comes to opening up our markets.
    There is a lot to benefit from opening up our economy to the outside both for producers and consumers. There's a lot of job creation in other sectors that will open up and replace low paying manufacturing jobs.


    Another point that I cannot stand is the monetarist approach to saving our economy. If you think putting minimalist tax breaks for the tax payer actually stimulates the economy when it only goes to cover the partial cuts that the conservatives make into social programs than people are missing the bigger picture. Having a Keynesian approach where we could reinvest into infrastructure and developing a competitive market in which we can excel to me makes a lot more sense while at the same time revitalize the economy.
    Yes maybe Harper diminished the downturn effect of the economy here but don't think that for a second another government couldn't have done the same thing.
    If anything our economy managed to pull through because of a sinking Canadian dollar that favoured our exports rather than any other policies. if anything it could of favoured an injection into our economy instead of senseless military spending that sees no communal benefits for Canadians.

    So yeah, I think conservatives are the worst of the bunch and I have doubts about all the others but I think they will play ball to further our economy in better ways.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by wprager on Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:54 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    wprager wrote:Trudeau surrounds himself with those who do not oppose his views.  That does't sound like a good recipe.
    Or he surrounds himself with people that help build his platform?

    I dare say the Conservative party does the same thing. I wish there was more opposition in the Conservative party.

    When's the last time Harper kicked anyone out for disagreeing on what really is and should be a personal matter, not one that determines which party runs the country? I mean, really, I have some very strong feelings on the subject but I don't want the government to be formed based on that.


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    Re: Elections

    Post by wprager on Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:54 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:Nice to hear so many informed and intelligent opinions in here. Now if most of canada can think like people in here we will be rid of Harper.

    So anyone that supports the Conservative party platform is uneducated or illogical in some way?  Interesting that... almost Harper-esque.

    +1


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    Re: Elections

    Post by wprager on Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:54 pm

    Ev wrote:lol I love anti Harper people.

    I live with a few of them.


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    Re: Elections

    Post by wprager on Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:01 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:I am having a tough time deciding this year.  I have eliminated all 3 parties several times over.  

    In the past I have usually voted Conservative but almost a decade of power is too long for anyone and the party has lost some of the more centrist influences in John Baird, Jim Flaherty, etc..  Bill C-51 goes a little too far in my mind and needs some alterations and the ridiculous Income splitting for families is bad economic policy intended to garner votes at the cost of good governance.

    The NDP has some interesting ideas but pulling out of the TPP and their Cap and Trade policies would destroy every last manufacturing job in this country and drive the GDP into negative growth.  Mulcair comes off as a smug, power hungry career politician who I fear will pander to Quebec at the cost of the rest of the country.

    The Liberal party has the same terrifying environmental policies as the NDP and is so urban centric that the rural population might as well not exist.  They seem to flip flop between NDP and Conservative policies so much that I worry they will govern by opinion polls.

    I am leaning Liberal, but don't want a majority for any of these clowns so I am in no man's land at the moment.

    Why is income splitting ridiculous? They've had it for years for seniors. They've had it for years in the US. What, exactly, is ridiculous about it? If you have two people each bringing in $75K with a family of four, and a single earner who is making $150K, supporting that same family of four, why should the "rich" guy pay more income taxes?

    Put it another way, why should those who make more money pay more *proportionally* than those making less? Do large corporations have a higher corporate tax rate than small companies? Do their payroll taxes go up (as a percentage of payroll) as the payroll increases? Do larger houses have a higher mill-rate? Is the GST on a Cadillac higher than the GST on a Chevy Cobalt? Well, maybe that last one should actually happen -- I don't mind luxury taxes on truly luxury items.


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