Elections

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    wprager
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    Re: Elections

    Post by wprager on Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:08 pm

    Not asking you to agree with me, just saying you're wrong if you don't. ;-)

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    Re: Elections

    Post by spader on Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:23 pm

    wprager wrote:Whatever. But it's part of foreign policy.

    Again, no one is going to disagree with you on that. Just because something is part of foreign policy doesn't mean you didn't make a silly statement.

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    Re: Elections

    Post by wprager on Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:57 am

    You are welcome to disagree with me, but that doesn't make the statement silly.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by spader on Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:51 am

    wprager wrote:You are welcome to disagree with me, but that doesn't make the statement silly.

    True. Saying that taking in refugees is the same as sending troops is what made your statement silly. Then trying to cover up the silliness by saying that "well, they're both foreign policy," made your statement even sillier.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by Oglethorpe on Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:38 am

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Cap'n Clutch wrote:Totally agree Spader. Canada should be providing support in the way that it's best suited to do so. The way to best support is to train and provide the aid required for the country to defend itself. We've seen it over and over again. Countries get ready to pull out and the country can't do it on their own.
    I miss the days when our involvement in military was through peacekeeping. And even that has left blemishes on our record. The more a country has an aggressive military foreign policy the more they are liable to have it splash back in their face.
    I don't buy into that Canadians should be scarred butlers not be surprised when Dung hits in the face. We go into war on our own account. Terrorism is just another name for war against an opponent that we can hardly put a finger on. We wouldn't got involved than we wouldn't have incidents happen.
    I wish for a world of Unicorns and Rainbows.

    While I agree that military force should not be used to protect a countries business interests in other parts of the world, sometimes you have to use force to protect those who can't protect themselves. I guess back in school you wouldn't help someone who was bullied because you were worried about being bullied yourself.

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    Re: Elections

    Post by NEELY on Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:54 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Cap'n Clutch wrote:Totally agree Spader. Canada should be providing support in the way that it's best suited to do so. The way to best support is to train and provide the aid required for the country to defend itself. We've seen it over and over again. Countries get ready to pull out and the country can't do it on their own.
    I miss the days when our involvement in military was through peacekeeping. And even that has left blemishes on our record. The more a country has an aggressive military foreign policy the more they are liable to have it splash back in their face.
    I don't buy into that Canadians should be scarred butlers not be surprised when Dung hits in the face. We go into war on our own account. Terrorism is just another name for war against an opponent that we can hardly put a finger on. We wouldn't got involved than we wouldn't have incidents happen.
    I wish for a world of Unicorns and Rainbows.  

    While I agree that military force should not be used to protect a countries business interests in other parts of the world, sometimes you have to use force to protect those who can't protect themselves.  I guess back in school you wouldn't help someone who was bullied because you were worried about being bullied yourself.

    Again, well played. I don't know where these hippies get the idea that the world can be perfect if only we acted this way. Not only is that naive and ignorant on its own, the fact people actually use this point of view to push their own agenda while apparently being "immoral" is disgraceful and disgusting.

    I find once people actually start working for a living, start raising a family, and eventually stop living in the student/unemployed dream world they snap out of it. Easy to rip on others from the comfort of your parents basement.

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    Re: Elections

    Post by NEELY on Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:55 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    LeCaptain wrote:
    Ev wrote:wtf are people on about regarding the Conservatives instilling "fear" in Canadians? Who the hell is afraid in Canada? Afraid of what?

    So why are we sending troops overseas again and have a full month (coming in 10 days) dedicated to the Army that is supposed to keep us "safe"?
    If nobody is afraid, then I guess there's nothing to keep us safe from.

    I support the forces so there's no point arguing this.

    It's possible to support the forces without supporting the overseers. By that I mean that you can support the troops, but disagree with the mission.
    Exactly. Why must people blindly follow in fear of not looking patriotic. The fact that support the troops is even a thing is because they want people to feel like it's either or. Who wouldn't support fellow Canadians. The problem is that people can vary in support of what the government is doing with them.

    Not quite that simple.  You can argue all you want up until the decision is made.  Once the troops are overseas, you stop.  The debate is over, the decision has been made.  The men and women in uniform believe that this decision is the correct one.  You saying that it's wrong is not going to show then the kind of support they deserve.

    That is exactly the tactic that gets started as soon as they want to stop any opposing ideology or opposition to the mission. "Shut up because our troops are there. Absolute media manipulation.

    Time to start living in the real world, child. You support those who represent your country and do the job you wouldn't in a million years have the balls to actually do. Once military is there they have no choice but to obey orders and they believe what they are doing is for the greater good.

    Guess what, if it wasn't for military interventions of the past this world of ours in our little bubble called Canada would have no where near the amount of rights we do now, especially women. Again, grow up, get a job, get a life.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:08 pm

    Not all military intervention is so altruistic. Sometimes it's purely political and economic. I know you're not childish enough not to realise that.

    There are definitely times when military intervention is necessary.  It's not black and white and its not all or nothing.  One can support the troops while not supporting the mission.


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    Re: Elections

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:30 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Cap'n Clutch wrote:Totally agree Spader. Canada should be providing support in the way that it's best suited to do so. The way to best support is to train and provide the aid required for the country to defend itself. We've seen it over and over again. Countries get ready to pull out and the country can't do it on their own.
    I miss the days when our involvement in military was through peacekeeping. And even that has left blemishes on our record. The more a country has an aggressive military foreign policy the more they are liable to have it splash back in their face.
    I don't buy into that Canadians should be scarred butlers not be surprised when Dung hits in the face. We go into war on our own account. Terrorism is just another name for war against an opponent that we can hardly put a finger on. We wouldn't got involved than we wouldn't have incidents happen.
    I wish for a world of Unicorns and Rainbows.  

    While I agree that military force should not be used to protect a countries business interests in other parts of the world, sometimes you have to use force to protect those who can't protect themselves.  I guess back in school you wouldn't help someone who was bullied because you were worried about being bullied yourself.

    Again, well played.  I don't know where these hippies get the idea that the world can be perfect if only we acted this way.  Not only is that naive and ignorant on its own, the fact people actually use this point of view to push their own agenda while apparently being "immoral" is disgraceful and disgusting.

    I find once people actually start working for a living, start raising a family, and eventually stop living in the student/unemployed dream world they snap out of it.  Easy to rip on others from the comfort of your parents basement.
    Hello, that is what peacekeeping comes in?

    And for your information I've been supporting myself on my own since my teens and have only returned to school in the last couple of years. I have lived and worked in three different continents and have experienced all the different cultures up close and personal you seem to think we should be protecting ourselves from. Maybe it's you that has lived a sheltered life from the confines of your safe Ottawa home and that fears the world will ultimately be out to get you.

    If anyone that doesn't follow the fear mongering conservative agenda is a hippy I'd say that the majority of Canadians that haven't voted for Harper, not polls but people are right in there.
    Having a job and a family doesn't entitle yourself to actually knowing what's best for the world. If anything maybe you need to brighten yourself to the actual world. Get the Diddle out of Ottawa and go visit a Muslim country you seem to hate so much. Grow a pair of balls and stop thinking we should be fighting everyone that doesn't share the imperialistic point of view of the US. You're the one that seems to have blinders on and only see the only view that your being told by a conservative media. At least I've gone out into the world and made my own decisions for myself.
    As far as I'm concerned the US started much of the trouble they are facing by trying to police the world for wanting to protect their imperialist economic interest. We seem to constantly cosy up to them in their fight and now have to so how fear an enemy that's out to get us? Why the Diddle is that?
    Take a good Cussing look at the actions this nation has taken in the last 10 years and you'll find your answer. There's not Cussing reasons for us to be in another country dropping bombs from our planes.

    We're lucky your views are a minority in this country.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:38 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    LeCaptain wrote:
    Ev wrote:wtf are people on about regarding the Conservatives instilling "fear" in Canadians? Who the hell is afraid in Canada? Afraid of what?

    So why are we sending troops overseas again and have a full month (coming in 10 days) dedicated to the Army that is supposed to keep us "safe"?
    If nobody is afraid, then I guess there's nothing to keep us safe from.

    I support the forces so there's no point arguing this.

    It's possible to support the forces without supporting the overseers. By that I mean that you can support the troops, but disagree with the mission.
    Exactly. Why must people blindly follow in fear of not looking patriotic. The fact that support the troops is even a thing is because they want people to feel like it's either or. Who wouldn't support fellow Canadians. The problem is that people can vary in support of what the government is doing with them.

    Not quite that simple.  You can argue all you want up until the decision is made.  Once the troops are overseas, you stop.  The debate is over, the decision has been made.  The men and women in uniform believe that this decision is the correct one.  You saying that it's wrong is not going to show then the kind of support they deserve.

    That is exactly the tactic that gets started as soon as they want to stop any opposing ideology or opposition to the mission. "Shut up because our troops are there. Absolute media manipulation.

    Time to start living in the real world, child.  You support those who represent your country and do the job you wouldn't in a million years have the balls to actually do.  Once military is there they have no choice but to obey orders and they believe what they are doing is for the greater good.  

    Guess what, if it wasn't for military interventions of the past this world of ours in our little bubble called Canada would have no where near the amount of rights we do now, especially women.  Again, grow up, get a job, get a life.
    Seriously Neely you're a little reactionary Wing Dang Doodle.
    You are such a puppet for the right wing. You think no one has the right to actually argue against a mission you are so out of line. Actually you probably don't think anyone has a right to argue with you in anything.mthe problem with your logic is that if no one argues with any intervention than we stay in them until the bitter end. Yeah that worked Cussing well with Vietnam. Years later we all know that was a bad idea from the start. Iraq yes another brilliant plan.

    So military intervention favours women in Canada? stfu
    If anything the situation of women in Iraq and Afghanistan is far worse now than it used to be. If anything all we do is create a vacuum for fundamentalist forces to step in once we are out there "policing" the situation.
    Seriously stop hiding behind your military agendas that we are doing the right thing because time after time it has shown that mission after mission has failed. So suck it buddy. Stick to talking hockey as it's clearly the only thing you are good at. Leave politics to those that have sensibilities to international consciousness and not a reactionary trigger happy superiority complex.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by Ev on Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:47 pm

    Didn't we go to Afghanistan under a Liberal government?
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    Re: Elections

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:06 pm

    Ev wrote:Didn't we go to Afghanistan under a Liberal government?
    Yup. Bad idea also.
    At least our involvements under liberals were minimal. I'm not saying liberals make perfect choices. My point is that the reasons why we are having the troubles we are having is because we keep backing the imperialistic actions of our neighbors to the south.
    If we didn't get involved I doubt we'd ever become a target.
    It's foolish to think that Muslim terrorist is aimed at converting the infidels as an agenda. They want leadership over their own region and by disturbing a place like Iraq we open up an entire region to them.
    Afghanistan isn't better than when the taliban ruled there. And they will probably be back to where they were before we ever entered. It wasn't enough to convince people after the attack in America that we should enter Afghanistan, We entered with arguing excuse of the mistreatment done to women after 9/11 but they are still being stoned in the streets for exposing skin. And the taliban was a direct result of another military operation from the USSR into Afghanistan. Can we not learn to leave people alone and let them progress towards their own internal positive change? Slowly Iran is starting to change and turn a corner. And that's from the inside. It's their own youth and future generation that will bring about change. Aggressive Military intervention rarely amount to anything positive for a country's future.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by LeCaptain on Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:09 pm

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:Not all military intervention is so altruistic. Sometimes it's purely political and economic. I know you're not childish enough not to realise that.

    There are definitely times when military intervention is necessary.  It's not black and white and its not all or nothing.  One can support the troops while not supporting the mission.

    Amen. That's where I stand.
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    Re: Elections

    Post by spader on Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:45 pm

    NEELY wrote:
    Time to start living in the real world, child.  You support those who represent your country and do the job you wouldn't in a million years have the balls to actually do.  Once military is there they have no choice but to obey orders and they believe what they are doing is for the greater good.  

    Guess what, if it wasn't for military interventions of the past this world of ours in our little bubble called Canada would have no where near the amount of rights we do now, especially women.  Again, grow up, get a job, get a life.

    Source? That's a big claim, for which I'd bet you have no evidence except, "Well, if the Nazis had won..."
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    Re: Elections

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:46 pm

    LeCaptain wrote:
    Cap'n Clutch wrote:Not all military intervention is so altruistic. Sometimes it's purely political and economic. I know you're not childish enough not to realise that.

    There are definitely times when military intervention is necessary.  It's not black and white and its not all or nothing.  One can support the troops while not supporting the mission.

    Amen. That's where I stand.
    A big difference should also be made between military intervention and military occupation. Also facts that's should be ignored is who started the aggressions. It's one thing to defend yourself against unprovoked attacks but let's not call ourselves victims either when we were slugging mud.

    Afghanistan was a mess to start with. Canadian lives were lost in the 9/11 attacks and it can be argued that Canada hadn't participated actively in escalations prior to that. But a mission to go invade Afghanistan was probably ill advised. I understand that some form of military retribution was most likely to result from that but on the scale that it took and in the added dimension that it had? The truth of the matter is it's not going to end if things keep escalating on both sides. I understand the American response to want to take out Osama but the agenda didn't stop there. And for them to go into Iraq was possibly the worst thing that could happen to the Middle East. The rise in fundamental sir extremism that is looking to actually form state has turned back the clock 40 years in term of progress. Nobody liked saddam but a progression towards liberal values was one happening from the inside. Now the region is living under deepened conservative Muslim values that were on their way out 15 years ago. The power vacuum basically opened up a chance for a militarized faction to come in and wreck havoc in the whole region and spill over everywhere.
    Democracy doesn't come in form of occupation but as a natural progression from the people. Since the fall of the eastern block the remaining communist countries are seeing themselves liberalize as a result of partaking in trade with their international counterparts. As a result of them moving into consumerist economies they are liberalizing and headind towards enjoying greater political freedoms.

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    Re: Elections

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:49 pm

    spader wrote:
    NEELY wrote:
    Time to start living in the real world, child.  You support those who represent your country and do the job you wouldn't in a million years have the balls to actually do.  Once military is there they have no choice but to obey orders and they believe what they are doing is for the greater good.  

    Guess what, if it wasn't for military interventions of the past this world of ours in our little bubble called Canada would have no where near the amount of rights we do now, especially women.  Again, grow up, get a job, get a life.

    Source? That's a big claim, for which I'd bet you have no evidence except, "Well, if the Nazis had won..."
    The nazis. Now that's a military intervention that was justified.

    Suprisingly how little we can find since then... Even NATO doesn't want to have to have to enter any more conflicts like the Bosnian Serbian conflicts because they deemed it a failure.

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    Re: Elections

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:35 pm

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:Not all military intervention is so altruistic. Sometimes it's purely political and economic. I know you're not childish enough not to realise that.

    There are definitely times when military intervention is necessary.  It's not black and white and its not all or nothing.  One can support the troops while not supporting the mission.

    Seems reasonable.

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    Re: Elections

    Post by NEELY on Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:38 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:Didn't we go to Afghanistan under a Liberal government?
    Yup. Bad idea also.
    At least our involvements under liberals were minimal. I'm not saying liberals make perfect choices. My point is that the reasons why we are having the troubles we are having is because we keep backing the imperialistic actions of our neighbors to the south.
    If we didn't get involved I doubt we'd ever become a target.
    It's foolish to think that Muslim terrorist is aimed at converting the infidels as an agenda. They want leadership over their own region and by disturbing a place like Iraq we open up an entire region to them.
    Afghanistan isn't better than when the taliban ruled there. And they will probably be back to where they were before we ever entered. It wasn't enough to convince people after the attack in America that we should enter Afghanistan, We entered with arguing excuse of the mistreatment done to women after 9/11 but they are still being stoned in the streets for exposing skin. And the taliban was a direct result of another military operation from the USSR into Afghanistan. Can we not learn to leave people alone and let them progress towards their own internal positive change? Slowly Iran is starting to change and turn a corner. And that's from the inside. It's their own youth and future generation that will bring about change. Aggressive Military intervention rarely amount to anything positive for a country's future.

    You know what, *uck you. People I know died over there and you claim it's a mistake from your little room with your computer. I would actually slap you right in the face right now if you were I front of me, make sure you know what kind of a pathetic human you are.

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