GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

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    Urkie
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by Urkie on Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:15 pm

    wprager wrote:I've got to disagree.  While 5v5 is a good indicator for a player (when comparing player effectiveness) good special teams are good on so many levels:
    - a very effective PK allows the team to be more aggressive (less afraid to take penalties)
    - similarly, a very effective PP makes the other team less aggressive
    - a PK that scores a lot of shorthanded goals makes the other team's PP more risk averse, taking fewer chances

    Also, as I stated, a great PP or PK generates a log of momentum (primarily at home).

    That is true but you look at PP's going down over the last little while and it's kind of mind boggling really. For example, the Sens are 28th or something on the PK in the league yet they have an above .500 record. That wouldn't have happened 5 years ago. Not a chance. They would be giving up so many goals that they couldn't possibly recover.


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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by wprager on Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:42 pm

    Urkie wrote:
    wprager wrote:I've got to disagree.  While 5v5 is a good indicator for a player (when comparing player effectiveness) good special teams are good on so many levels:
    - a very effective PK allows the team to be more aggressive (less afraid to take penalties)
    - similarly, a very effective PP makes the other team less aggressive
    - a PK that scores a lot of shorthanded goals makes the other team's PP more risk averse, taking fewer chances

    Also, as I stated, a great PP or PK generates a log of momentum (primarily at home).

    That is true but you look at PP's going down over the last little while and it's kind of mind boggling really. For example, the Sens are 28th or something on the PK in the league yet they have an above .500 record. That wouldn't have happened 5 years ago. Not a chance. They would be giving up so many goals that they couldn't possibly recover.


    What's their PP/PK differential, though. You better believe minors are up over 10 years ago.

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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by PTFlea on Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:07 pm

    wprager wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:
    wprager wrote:Pageau has been "disappointing" because of unrealistic expectations.  
    I really don't think that's that case.  Speed, skill, character.  He has the tools to make a much bigger impact.  

    That hat trick against the Habs in the post-season, the "Pageau, Pageau, Pageau, Pageau" chants -- those things make you forget that he is still an undersized, sophomore 4th rounder.  Four goals in 18 games while killing penalties is pretty not bad for a sophomore 4th rounder.  You think he should have how many, 5? 6 goals?  6 in 18 would put him on a 27-goal pace.  That's unrealistic for his pedigree and experience level.

    He just hasn't done much "wow" stuff in a few games.

    I think if given the opportunity he could be an excellent playmaker as well as being a 20 goal guy. He just has linemates that can't score and he's not playing like he can either.
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by Urkie on Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:23 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Urkie wrote:
    wprager wrote:I've got to disagree.  While 5v5 is a good indicator for a player (when comparing player effectiveness) good special teams are good on so many levels:
    - a very effective PK allows the team to be more aggressive (less afraid to take penalties)
    - similarly, a very effective PP makes the other team less aggressive
    - a PK that scores a lot of shorthanded goals makes the other team's PP more risk averse, taking fewer chances

    Also, as I stated, a great PP or PK generates a log of momentum (primarily at home).

    That is true but you look at PP's going down over the last little while and it's kind of mind boggling really. For example, the Sens are 28th or something on the PK in the league yet they have an above .500 record. That wouldn't have happened 5 years ago. Not a chance. They would be giving up so many goals that they couldn't possibly recover.


    What's their PP/PK differential, though. You better believe minors are up over 10 years ago.

    Lets see. So they've scored 12 times on the PP and they've given up 16 so -4. Not as big of a difference as I thought and I'll say I was wrong there. However, I'm positive I saw a graph that showed how the number of PP's per game are back at pre 2005-2006 levels.
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by wprager on Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:36 am

    I meant number of times shorthanded versus number of power plays.


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    Urkie
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by Urkie on Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:44 am

    wprager wrote:I meant number of times shorthanded versus number of power plays.

    They've had 55 PP's and been shorthanded 63 times.

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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

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