GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

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    LeCaptain
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by LeCaptain on Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:53 pm

    Pageau needs to be better for sure and I think that will help his other 2 linemates. Chris Neil is beyond useless at this point and he drags the line with him.
    That doesn't change the fact that on a simple 2 on 2 Ceci and Wiercioch get beat like crazy and when even Karlsson do the same thing it's a recipe for disaster.

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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:17 pm

    Trade everyone?

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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:20 pm

    Welcome back Urkie. Secondary scoring has definitely been an issue and I don't think the sens have shown enough jam. The 4th line however does generate some energy from time to time. To me both pageau and zibanejad's lines have left more to be desired.

    We may be in 2nd place right now, but the atlantic division is extremely tight. With a couple losses, we could plummet down to 7th, which wouldn't shock any of us considering how the sens have been playing. Definitely not the same team as last season. Even Mark Stone isn't the same.
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by Urkie on Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:39 pm

    LeCaptain wrote:Pageau needs to be better for sure and I think that will help his other 2 linemates. Chris Neil is beyond useless at this point and he drags the line with him.
    That doesn't change the fact that on a simple 2 on 2 Ceci and Wiercioch get beat like crazy and when even Karlsson do the same thing it's a recipe for disaster.

    I agree that Pageau can be better but I don't think Chiasson has any hope. He's just not an effective player.

    In regards to 2 on 2's, that is happening but it's happening because the other team comes flying out of their zone with ease all game long. It wears down a team fast. The forwards need to help more on breakouts and they need to put pucks into areas where they can retrieve it. Instead it seems like they dump it in and setup a trap in the neutral zone only to have the other team break the trap and forecheck our defense into submission.

    I'm not saying the defense is without blame here because they have been awful but the forwards are not coming back to help or lose battles along the boards consistently where they were making a play last year to get the puck out.
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by LeCaptain on Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:41 pm

    Urkie wrote:
    LeCaptain wrote:Pageau needs to be better for sure and I think that will help his other 2 linemates. Chris Neil is beyond useless at this point and he drags the line with him.
    That doesn't change the fact that on a simple 2 on 2 Ceci and Wiercioch get beat like crazy and when even Karlsson do the same thing it's a recipe for disaster.

    I agree that Pageau can be better but I don't think Chiasson has any hope. He's just not an effective player.

    In regards to 2 on 2's, that is happening but it's happening because the other team comes flying out of their zone with ease all game long. It wears down a team fast. The forwards need to help more on breakouts and they need to put pucks into areas where they can retrieve it. Instead it seems like they dump it in and setup a trap in the neutral zone only to have the other team break the trap and forecheck our defense into submission.

    I'm not saying the defense is without blame here because they have been awful but the forwards are not coming back to help or lose battles along the boards consistently where they were making a play last year to get the puck out.

    It's not that easy. A forward may come back to help but when let's say Borowiecki takes 2 seconds just to turn around sometimes, the other team will already be on that forward.
    That's why you need a defenseman who can skate out of trouble.
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by Urkie on Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:51 pm

    LeCaptain wrote:
    Urkie wrote:
    LeCaptain wrote:Pageau needs to be better for sure and I think that will help his other 2 linemates. Chris Neil is beyond useless at this point and he drags the line with him.
    That doesn't change the fact that on a simple 2 on 2 Ceci and Wiercioch get beat like crazy and when even Karlsson do the same thing it's a recipe for disaster.

    I agree that Pageau can be better but I don't think Chiasson has any hope. He's just not an effective player.

    In regards to 2 on 2's, that is happening but it's happening because the other team comes flying out of their zone with ease all game long. It wears down a team fast. The forwards need to help more on breakouts and they need to put pucks into areas where they can retrieve it. Instead it seems like they dump it in and setup a trap in the neutral zone only to have the other team break the trap and forecheck our defense into submission.

    I'm not saying the defense is without blame here because they have been awful but the forwards are not coming back to help or lose battles along the boards consistently where they were making a play last year to get the puck out.

    It's not that easy. A forward may come back to help but when let's say Borowiecki takes 2 seconds just to turn around sometimes, the other team will already be on that forward.
    That's why you need a defenseman who can skate out of trouble.

    Hockey is fickle. There's a fine line between good hockey and bad hockey. I agree with you but I also think it's the forwards responsibility to come back and turn up ice with speed instead of coming back and being so stationary. It gives the defense an out. An out that's not available right now. I think there's been far too much puck watching by the team as a whole. Too reactionary instead of being proactive.
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by Ev on Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:48 pm

    Urkie wrote:
    LeCaptain wrote:Pageau needs to be better for sure and I think that will help his other 2 linemates. Chris Neil is beyond useless at this point and he drags the line with him.
    That doesn't change the fact that on a simple 2 on 2 Ceci and Wiercioch get beat like crazy and when even Karlsson do the same thing it's a recipe for disaster.

    I agree that Pageau can be better but I don't think Chiasson has any hope. He's just not an effective player.

    In regards to 2 on 2's, that is happening but it's happening because the other team comes flying out of their zone with ease all game long. It wears down a team fast. The forwards need to help more on breakouts and they need to put pucks into areas where they can retrieve it. Instead it seems like they dump it in and setup a trap in the neutral zone only to have the other team break the trap and forecheck our defense into submission.

    I'm not saying the defense is without blame here because they have been awful but the forwards are not coming back to help or lose battles along the boards consistently where they were making a play last year to get the puck out.

    I don't know if I agree with your Chiasson opinion. I've really liked him over the last ten games or so. He's using his body, getting to the net, and creating chances. He's still young and has scoring pedigree so I think he has room to grow. I don't see a big difference between him and Condra from last year.m
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:03 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:Trade everyone?

    Death to the Red Wigns!


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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by Urkie on Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:15 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Urkie wrote:
    LeCaptain wrote:Pageau needs to be better for sure and I think that will help his other 2 linemates. Chris Neil is beyond useless at this point and he drags the line with him.
    That doesn't change the fact that on a simple 2 on 2 Ceci and Wiercioch get beat like crazy and when even Karlsson do the same thing it's a recipe for disaster.

    I agree that Pageau can be better but I don't think Chiasson has any hope. He's just not an effective player.

    In regards to 2 on 2's, that is happening but it's happening because the other team comes flying out of their zone with ease all game long. It wears down a team fast. The forwards need to help more on breakouts and they need to put pucks into areas where they can retrieve it. Instead it seems like they dump it in and setup a trap in the neutral zone only to have the other team break the trap and forecheck our defense into submission.

    I'm not saying the defense is without blame here because they have been awful but the forwards are not coming back to help or lose battles along the boards consistently where they were making a play last year to get the puck out.

    I don't know if I agree with your Chiasson opinion. I've really liked him over the last ten games or so. He's using his body, getting to the net, and creating chances. He's still young and has scoring pedigree so I think he has room to grow. I don't see a big difference between him and Condra from last year.m

    Condra was an effective bottom 6 player. He was a smart player and he was always making the right play. He knew his role and he could chip in every once in awhile.

    Chiasson is just one of those guys that's a tweener I guess. He's not a top 6 and I'm not sure he has the IQ to be but he doesn't have the smarts to be an effective checker either. He tends to use his stick more so than his body an that's an issue for a player like him because of his size. He's an irritating player to watch.
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:26 pm

    Chiasson on the third line is a downgrade from condra. It's baffling to me that they let condra walk over term.

    Chiasson has little offense and as mentioned his hockey iq isn't good enough to be a checker

    I also hate the term checker. There should be no one dimensional players unless it's your 5/6 dmen. Chiasson is a placeholder for someone better like Paul, Lindberg, White, McCormick, dzingel, Robinson etc. I would imagine it'll be his last year on the team unless they replace Neil with him next year.

    My top 9 woukf not include him.
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:27 pm

    I also can call a spade a spade and say Ive been.pretty disappointed in Pageau lately as I think he has a lot more to bring
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:10 am

    He's a Hab killer so that alone has Pageau on my team. Clapping


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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:23 am

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:He's a Hab killer so that alone has Pageau on my team. Clapping

    Let's keep this fine youngster.
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by tim1_2 on Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:34 am

    Yeah, I agree that lack of a decent forecheck has certainly lead to not enough offensive zone time. During the game this past Saturday against the Rangers, I actually commented on how good the forecheck looked...it was the only time I remember seeing that this season. Maybe more afternoon games is the key?
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by Urkie on Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:30 am

    SpezDispensed wrote:Chiasson on the third line is a downgrade from condra.  It's baffling to me that they let condra walk over term.  

    Chiasson has little offense and as mentioned his hockey iq isn't good enough to be a checker

    I also hate the term checker.  There should be no one dimensional players unless it's your 5/6 dmen.  Chiasson is a placeholder for someone better like Paul, Lindberg, White, McCormick, dzingel, Robinson etc.  I would imagine it'll be his last year on the team unless they replace Neil with him next year.

    My top 9 woukf not include him.

    I hope it is his last year because there just hasn't been any improvement in his game at all and I don't see potential in him to get better either. It's a shame because he has all the physical attributes to be a really good player. He just doesn't think the game at a high level and that's not something you can teach.

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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by tim1_2 on Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:36 am

    Chiasson is playing better this year than he was last year, but that's not saying much. I had high hopes for that kid, especially after his first few games last year, when he had a few points right off the bat. But yeah, at this point, he's an easily replaceable player that always leaves you wanting more. No question in my mind, I'd take Condra over him right now.
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by Urkie on Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:38 am

    SpezDispensed wrote:I also can call a spade a spade and say Ive been.pretty disappointed in Pageau lately as I think he has a lot more to bring
     

    He has been very disappointing. He's not doing anything very well right now whether that be on the PK or 5 on 5. He's just struggling and now his confidence is very low. He definitely can be better. In his role, he has to bring it every game and he just hasn't done that this season.
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    Re: GAME DAY #18: Red Wings @ Sens - 7:30pm - Monday Nov. 16 2015

    Post by wprager on Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:49 am

    Urkie wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Chiasson on the third line is a downgrade from condra.  It's baffling to me that they let condra walk over term.  

    Chiasson has little offense and as mentioned his hockey iq isn't good enough to be a checker

    I also hate the term checker.  There should be no one dimensional players unless it's your 5/6 dmen.  Chiasson is a placeholder for someone better like Paul, Lindberg, White, McCormick, dzingel, Robinson etc.  I would imagine it'll be his last year on the team unless they replace Neil with him next year.

    My top 9 woukf not include him.

    I hope it is his last year because there just hasn't been any improvement in his game at all and I don't see potential in him to get better either. It's a shame because he has all the physical attributes to be a really good player. He just doesn't think the game at a high level and that's not something you can teach.


    What physical attributes? He's big, that's it. He is not a very sturdy skater, falls down a lot when trying to go wide on a defender. He certainly does not use his size much to separate the man from the puck, but much of that could be due to his skating agility (or lack thereof).

    However I also disagree that there has been no improvement. He's certainly improved over last year and even over the last half doze games or so. There is no indications that Buddy Robinson would do any better, and as for the other players mentioned they really are not in the same ballpark size-wise.

    I'd like to see what Nick Paul could do. He's over 202 at 6'2" so pretty solidly built. He grew a foot in a short space of time and that takes a little while in adjusting. He's had a couple years since that growth spurt, now, I believe, so it's probably not very long before he's fully caught up to his height.


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