GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

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    wprager
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by wprager on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:35 am

    Anything worthwhile happen seven times? No?

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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:37 am

    wprager wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:We really don't need Chiasson and Lazar right now.  Send Lazar  down for a while, call up mccormick.  You need to shake up the bottom six and infuse some life.  

    Defence is horrendous.
    Amen. Lazar to the AHL for at least 20 game stretch. Puempel would be much better up here.
    This was a stupid stupid game. We need a top 4 so bad


    Lazar's been excellent or fantastic on most nights. Ask SpezD.

    Pierre McGuire said at this point you might as well leave him here as there is nothing he can learn in the AHL.  I disagree.  His development has stalled pretty hard.  A trip to the WJC helped last year.  He needs to play solid minutes with offensively minded linemates to get him to start thinking differently.  Right now he's playing not to make a mistake.  He's got the mentality that he can't score so he must at least not screw up.  Remember Zibanejad his first 9 games?  


    What is it about this player that make people think he's too good for the AHL or has nothing to learn there? It's really incredible.

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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by wprager on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:37 am

    Cameron gave them the day off Friday with no practice and they give up nearly their league leading shot quota in the first period. You know what this means for today's skate.

    Maybe they should have had a players only meeting in the first intermission.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by wprager on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:51 am

    I've been having this gnawing feeling since around the mid point of last year, that the Senators are really screwing up Lazar's development. We didn't use a mid 1st round pick for another Jesse Winchester (The Winch was a college free agent, wasn't he?). This kid is supposed to be a leader and right now he's leading nothing -- he's not among the team's leaders in hits, blocked shots, takeaways, plus/minus or any defensive stats you can think of and he's certainly not providing any measurable offense. If anything -- and I was saying this last year -- he is holding his linemates back (I think Condra could have had a career year last season if he had Puempel or Prince there for a full season -- probably cost him a couple million over the course of his contract).


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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by PTFlea on Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:46 am

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:We really don't need Chiasson and Lazar right now.  Send Lazar  down for a while, call up mccormick.  You need to shake up the bottom six and infuse some life.  

    Defence is horrendous.
    Amen. Lazar to the AHL for at least 20 game stretch. Puempel would be much better up here.
    This was a stupid stupid game. We need a top 4 so bad


    Lazar's been excellent or fantastic on most nights. Ask SpezD.

    Not anymore. No offense means someone else can do what he's doing. There's a point where something has to give.

    Same with chiasson. There's a limit to how long you can get top 9 minutes and do sweet Diddle all.

    Defence is a write off too. If karlsson or methot have an off night we're done.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by PTFlea on Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:47 am

    Think of the level of pressure on karlsson and methot right now. If they don't play near flawless hockey, we likely lose. Fun for them!
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by wprager on Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:01 am

    A bit more on Lazar.

    - 0 points in his last 9 games
    - 1 game in which he was a plus (-5 overall during those 9 games)
    - 8 shots on goal (zero shots on goal in 4 of those games)

    At least his ice time is being cut back. But what he needs is *more* ice time, and he can only do that in Bingo.


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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by wprager on Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:10 am

    Alex Chiasson:

    - 0 goals in last 16 games (2 assists over that stretch)
    - he was a plus in 2 of those games (-3 over the 16 games -- not terrible)
    - 18 shots (slightly above a shot per game, so tiny bit more than Lazar's 8 in 9)

    So the best I can say is that he is *slightly* better at generating at least shots on goal, and not terrible defensively. If I had a choice of who to send down I'd send Lazar in a heartbeat for two reasons: one, Lazar needs the development more and, two, Chiasson is further along IMO. Chiasson has not been playing poorly but he needs more competent linemates to finish what he starts. He also needs to assert himself way more frequently. Perfect example in the Islanders game when Okposo intimidated him with just a stare and a bit of a push. There was no pushback at all. And it's not like Okposo was giving him enough to think the ref would hand out a minor. There should have been some pushback from Alex.


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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:33 am

    SpezDispensed wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:We really don't need Chiasson and Lazar right now.  Send Lazar  down for a while, call up mccormick.  You need to shake up the bottom six and infuse some life.  

    Defence is horrendous.
    Amen. Lazar to the AHL for at least 20 game stretch. Puempel would be much better up here.
    This was a stupid stupid game. We need a top 4 so bad


    Lazar's been excellent or fantastic on most nights. Ask SpezD.

    Not anymore.  No offense means someone else can do what he's doing.  There's a point where something has to give.

    Same with chiasson.  There's a limit to how long you can get top 9 minutes and do sweet Diddle all.  

    Defence is a write off too.  If karlsson or methot have an off night  we're done.  


    Not really. They have franchise D-Man, Cody Ceci to pick up the slack.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by LeCaptain on Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:05 pm

    Another game lost thanks to Cowen and Wiercioch. Worst part is Montreal doesn't even look like a top 5 team.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:16 pm

    LeCaptain wrote:Another game lost thanks to Cowen and Wiercioch. Worst part is Montreal doesn't even look like a top 5 team.

    Agreed. Other than Cowen and Wiercioch, everyone was great.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by LeCaptain on Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:24 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    LeCaptain wrote:Another game lost thanks to Cowen and Wiercioch. Worst part is Montreal doesn't even look like a top 5 team.

    Agreed. Other than Cowen and Wiercioch, everyone was great.

    Sarcasm aside, when your first pass is horrible, you can bet your house we're in for a 2 minute gong show in our own zone.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by Ev on Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:38 pm

    Probably an unpopular opinion but I was not happy with Anderson last night. Reminds me of when he was in Colorado in his final days. I would start Hammond tomorrow and give him a long stretch. The team is muhc better in front of Hammond.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by Ev on Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:40 pm

    wprager wrote:I've been having this gnawing feeling since around the mid point of last year, that the Senators are really screwing up Lazar's development.  We didn't use a mid 1st round pick for another Jesse Winchester (The Winch was a college free agent, wasn't he?).  This kid is supposed to be a leader and right now he's leading nothing -- he's not among the team's leaders in hits, blocked shots, takeaways, plus/minus or any defensive stats you can think of and he's certainly not providing any measurable offense.  If anything -- and I was saying this last year -- he is holding his linemates back (I think Condra could have had a career year last season if he had Puempel or Prince there for a full season -- probably cost him a couple million over the course of his contract).  

    Fans overrate first round picks. If you get a third liner at that spot you did well. But he wil more than that. He's on the Dustin brown Ryan Callahan track without a doubt.

    If you expect a fourth liner who is 20 to be a leader right now, you are expecting too much.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by spader on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:17 pm

    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:I've been having this gnawing feeling since around the mid point of last year, that the Senators are really screwing up Lazar's development.  We didn't use a mid 1st round pick for another Jesse Winchester (The Winch was a college free agent, wasn't he?).  This kid is supposed to be a leader and right now he's leading nothing -- he's not among the team's leaders in hits, blocked shots, takeaways, plus/minus or any defensive stats you can think of and he's certainly not providing any measurable offense.  If anything -- and I was saying this last year -- he is holding his linemates back (I think Condra could have had a career year last season if he had Puempel or Prince there for a full season -- probably cost him a couple million over the course of his contract).  

    Fans overrate first round picks. If you get a third liner at that spot you did well. But he wil more than that. He's on the Dustin brown Ryan Callahan track without a doubt.

    If you expect a fourth liner who is 20 to be a leader right now, you are expecting too much.

    I basically agree with Ev. You have to look at the projection and the developmental arc. If you try to look at a 20 year old and define his game at this point, you're setting yourself up for a disappointment, IMO.

    Look at Hoffman. People were ready to cut anchor there and he's blossoming into a legit goal scorer. Be patient, Prags.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by spader on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:18 pm

    Ev wrote:Probably an unpopular opinion but I was not happy with Anderson last night. Reminds me of when he was in Colorado in his final days. I would start Hammond tomorrow and give him a long stretch. The team is muhc better in front of Hammond.

    Tim's gonna shout at you.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:24 pm

    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:I've been having this gnawing feeling since around the mid point of last year, that the Senators are really screwing up Lazar's development.  We didn't use a mid 1st round pick for another Jesse Winchester (The Winch was a college free agent, wasn't he?).  This kid is supposed to be a leader and right now he's leading nothing -- he's not among the team's leaders in hits, blocked shots, takeaways, plus/minus or any defensive stats you can think of and he's certainly not providing any measurable offense.  If anything -- and I was saying this last year -- he is holding his linemates back (I think Condra could have had a career year last season if he had Puempel or Prince there for a full season -- probably cost him a couple million over the course of his contract).  

    Fans overrate first round picks. If you get a third liner at that spot you did well. But he wil more than that. He's on the Dustin brown Ryan Callahan track without a doubt.

    If you expect a fourth liner who is 20 to be a leader right now, you are expecting too much.

    I basically agree with Ev. You have to look at the projection and the developmental arc. If you try to look at a 20 year old and define his game at this point, you're setting yourself up for a disappointment, IMO.

    Look at Hoffman. People were ready to cut anchor there and he's blossoming into a legit goal scorer. Be patient, Prags.


    Difference being, Hoffman spent a LOT of time in the AHL. I'd have all the patience in the world if Lazar were there, personally. And I think that's how his potential is maximized. But whatever really.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by spader on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:35 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:I've been having this gnawing feeling since around the mid point of last year, that the Senators are really screwing up Lazar's development.  We didn't use a mid 1st round pick for another Jesse Winchester (The Winch was a college free agent, wasn't he?).  This kid is supposed to be a leader and right now he's leading nothing -- he's not among the team's leaders in hits, blocked shots, takeaways, plus/minus or any defensive stats you can think of and he's certainly not providing any measurable offense.  If anything -- and I was saying this last year -- he is holding his linemates back (I think Condra could have had a career year last season if he had Puempel or Prince there for a full season -- probably cost him a couple million over the course of his contract).  

    Fans overrate first round picks. If you get a third liner at that spot you did well. But he wil more than that. He's on the Dustin brown Ryan Callahan track without a doubt.

    If you expect a fourth liner who is 20 to be a leader right now, you are expecting too much.

    I basically agree with Ev. You have to look at the projection and the developmental arc. If you try to look at a 20 year old and define his game at this point, you're setting yourself up for a disappointment, IMO.

    Look at Hoffman. People were ready to cut anchor there and he's blossoming into a legit goal scorer. Be patient, Prags.


    Difference being, Hoffman spent a LOT of time in the AHL. I'd have all the patience in the world if Lazar were there, personally. And I think that's how his potential is maximized. But whatever really.

    I'd agree with that, but it's a different point than the one I'm trying to make. All I'm saying is that, like Hoffman, it's hard to qualitatively rank someone's game at that age. I think it's worth waiting before we get upset that a 20 year old isn't leading the team in statistical categories.

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