GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

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    spader
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by spader on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:18 pm

    Ev wrote:Probably an unpopular opinion but I was not happy with Anderson last night. Reminds me of when he was in Colorado in his final days. I would start Hammond tomorrow and give him a long stretch. The team is muhc better in front of Hammond.

    Tim's gonna shout at you.

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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:24 pm

    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:I've been having this gnawing feeling since around the mid point of last year, that the Senators are really screwing up Lazar's development.  We didn't use a mid 1st round pick for another Jesse Winchester (The Winch was a college free agent, wasn't he?).  This kid is supposed to be a leader and right now he's leading nothing -- he's not among the team's leaders in hits, blocked shots, takeaways, plus/minus or any defensive stats you can think of and he's certainly not providing any measurable offense.  If anything -- and I was saying this last year -- he is holding his linemates back (I think Condra could have had a career year last season if he had Puempel or Prince there for a full season -- probably cost him a couple million over the course of his contract).  

    Fans overrate first round picks. If you get a third liner at that spot you did well. But he wil more than that. He's on the Dustin brown Ryan Callahan track without a doubt.

    If you expect a fourth liner who is 20 to be a leader right now, you are expecting too much.

    I basically agree with Ev. You have to look at the projection and the developmental arc. If you try to look at a 20 year old and define his game at this point, you're setting yourself up for a disappointment, IMO.

    Look at Hoffman. People were ready to cut anchor there and he's blossoming into a legit goal scorer. Be patient, Prags.


    Difference being, Hoffman spent a LOT of time in the AHL. I'd have all the patience in the world if Lazar were there, personally. And I think that's how his potential is maximized. But whatever really.

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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by spader on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:35 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:I've been having this gnawing feeling since around the mid point of last year, that the Senators are really screwing up Lazar's development.  We didn't use a mid 1st round pick for another Jesse Winchester (The Winch was a college free agent, wasn't he?).  This kid is supposed to be a leader and right now he's leading nothing -- he's not among the team's leaders in hits, blocked shots, takeaways, plus/minus or any defensive stats you can think of and he's certainly not providing any measurable offense.  If anything -- and I was saying this last year -- he is holding his linemates back (I think Condra could have had a career year last season if he had Puempel or Prince there for a full season -- probably cost him a couple million over the course of his contract).  

    Fans overrate first round picks. If you get a third liner at that spot you did well. But he wil more than that. He's on the Dustin brown Ryan Callahan track without a doubt.

    If you expect a fourth liner who is 20 to be a leader right now, you are expecting too much.

    I basically agree with Ev. You have to look at the projection and the developmental arc. If you try to look at a 20 year old and define his game at this point, you're setting yourself up for a disappointment, IMO.

    Look at Hoffman. People were ready to cut anchor there and he's blossoming into a legit goal scorer. Be patient, Prags.


    Difference being, Hoffman spent a LOT of time in the AHL. I'd have all the patience in the world if Lazar were there, personally. And I think that's how his potential is maximized. But whatever really.

    I'd agree with that, but it's a different point than the one I'm trying to make. All I'm saying is that, like Hoffman, it's hard to qualitatively rank someone's game at that age. I think it's worth waiting before we get upset that a 20 year old isn't leading the team in statistical categories.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:37 pm

    spader wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:I've been having this gnawing feeling since around the mid point of last year, that the Senators are really screwing up Lazar's development.  We didn't use a mid 1st round pick for another Jesse Winchester (The Winch was a college free agent, wasn't he?).  This kid is supposed to be a leader and right now he's leading nothing -- he's not among the team's leaders in hits, blocked shots, takeaways, plus/minus or any defensive stats you can think of and he's certainly not providing any measurable offense.  If anything -- and I was saying this last year -- he is holding his linemates back (I think Condra could have had a career year last season if he had Puempel or Prince there for a full season -- probably cost him a couple million over the course of his contract).  

    Fans overrate first round picks. If you get a third liner at that spot you did well. But he wil more than that. He's on the Dustin brown Ryan Callahan track without a doubt.

    If you expect a fourth liner who is 20 to be a leader right now, you are expecting too much.

    I basically agree with Ev. You have to look at the projection and the developmental arc. If you try to look at a 20 year old and define his game at this point, you're setting yourself up for a disappointment, IMO.

    Look at Hoffman. People were ready to cut anchor there and he's blossoming into a legit goal scorer. Be patient, Prags.


    Difference being, Hoffman spent a LOT of time in the AHL. I'd have all the patience in the world if Lazar were there, personally. And I think that's how his potential is maximized. But whatever really.

    I'd agree with that, but it's a different point than the one I'm trying to make. All I'm saying is that, like Hoffman, it's hard to qualitatively rank someone's game at that age. I think it's worth waiting before we get upset that a 20 year old isn't leading the team in statistical categories.

    OK. Bad read by me. I don't care as much about the stats as I do about the handling of this fine youngster.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by spader on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:00 pm

    Fair enough. I think just about everyone would agree that going to the AHL and leading the team would be a good thing for Lazar. It's just hard to do that at this point, IMO. Still, if it's what's right for the player...
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by PTFlea on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:19 pm

    LeCaptain wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    LeCaptain wrote:Another game lost thanks to Cowen and Wiercioch. Worst part is Montreal doesn't even look like a top 5 team.

    Agreed. Other than Cowen and Wiercioch, everyone was great.

    Sarcasm aside, when your first pass is horrible, you can bet your house we're in for a 2 minute gong show in our own zone.

    It's not even funny anymore. I don't know what Murray is watching, I don't know if he can do anything, but his faith in cowen is going to be his undoing. Wiercioch is a smaller cap hit, you could move him if need be, cowen is an achor and he sucks.

    Then you have Ceci struggling as well so you're asking your top pairing to be perfect. Good luck. And now it's gonna be really expensive to get a 2nd pairing dman who doesn't crap himself every time the puck goes to him.

    So frustrating because that's the difference between us bring a real threat or just a bubble team.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by PTFlea on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:21 pm

    spader wrote:Fair enough. I think just about everyone would agree that going to the AHL and leading the team would be a good thing for Lazar. It's just hard to do that at this point, IMO. Still, if it's what's right for the player...

    I can't see the harm at all. You get him some big minutes and you also get to see another young player. To Diddle with playing boro at forward, we need that guy on the back end.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by PTFlea on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:22 pm

    Also, yesterday's game was much more flattering to us than it should have been. Without Anderson it would have been 8-1. What a piece of Dung effort that was...can't believe it. Be ready on Monday bunghole
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:24 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:Also, yesterday's game was much more flattering to us than it should have been.  Without Anderson it would have been 8-1.  What a piece of Dung effort that was...can't believe it.  Be ready on Monday bunghole


    Yeah, well, shouldn't they have been ready after dropping the previous game to Tampa happy? I wouldn't hold my breath.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by PTFlea on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:27 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Also, yesterday's game was much more flattering to us than it should have been.  Without Anderson it would have been 8-1.  What a piece of Dung effort that was...can't believe it.  Be ready on Monday bunghole


    Yeah, well, shouldn't they have been ready after dropping the previous game to Tampa happy? I wouldn't hold my breath.

    We'll see which team decides to show up Monday. I hope not to see that crap again.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by spader on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:27 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Also, yesterday's game was much more flattering to us than it should have been.  Without Anderson it would have been 8-1.  What a piece of Dung effort that was...can't believe it.  Be ready on Monday bunghole


    Yeah, well, shouldn't they have been ready after dropping the previous game to Tampa happy? I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Best filter-correct after a typo ever.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by wprager on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:36 pm

    spader wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:I've been having this gnawing feeling since around the mid point of last year, that the Senators are really screwing up Lazar's development.  We didn't use a mid 1st round pick for another Jesse Winchester (The Winch was a college free agent, wasn't he?).  This kid is supposed to be a leader and right now he's leading nothing -- he's not among the team's leaders in hits, blocked shots, takeaways, plus/minus or any defensive stats you can think of and he's certainly not providing any measurable offense.  If anything -- and I was saying this last year -- he is holding his linemates back (I think Condra could have had a career year last season if he had Puempel or Prince there for a full season -- probably cost him a couple million over the course of his contract).  

    Fans overrate first round picks. If you get a third liner at that spot you did well. But he wil more than that. He's on the Dustin brown Ryan Callahan track without a doubt.

    If you expect a fourth liner who is 20 to be a leader right now, you are expecting too much.

    I basically agree with Ev. You have to look at the projection and the developmental arc. If you try to look at a 20 year old and define his game at this point, you're setting yourself up for a disappointment, IMO.

    Look at Hoffman. People were ready to cut anchor there and he's blossoming into a legit goal scorer. Be patient, Prags.


    Difference being, Hoffman spent a LOT of time in the AHL. I'd have all the patience in the world if Lazar were there, personally. And I think that's how his potential is maximized. But whatever really.

    I'd agree with that, but it's a different point than the one I'm trying to make. All I'm saying is that, like Hoffman, it's hard to qualitatively rank someone's game at that age. I think it's worth waiting before we get upset that a 20 year old isn't leading the team in statistical categories.
    Not sure you got my point, either. I'm not expecting anything from him right now, but if he is not producing, not even a little, then he'd be better off elsewhere. The NHL is not a development league. I feel his development of suffering up in Ottawa.


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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by wprager on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:42 pm

    spader wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:Also, yesterday's game was much more flattering to us than it should have been.  Without Anderson it would have been 8-1.  What a piece of Dung effort that was...can't believe it.  Be ready on Monday bunghole


    Yeah, well, shouldn't they have been ready after dropping the previous game to Tampa happy? I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Best filter-correct after a typo ever.

    Walrus

    The Hamburglar fix.


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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by tim1_2 on Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:18 pm

    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:Probably an unpopular opinion but I was not happy with Anderson last night. Reminds me of when he was in Colorado in his final days. I would start Hammond tomorrow and give him a long stretch. The team is muhc better in front of Hammond.

    Tim's gonna shout at you.

    I didn't watch the game, so I don't know if Anderson was off. I do know that Ottawa gave up 27 shots in the first period, and that's not Anderson's fault. I also know that Anderson has been great for us this year. Yeah, he's a weird dude (as are a lot of goalies), but he's usually one of our best players every time he plays.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by wprager on Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:19 pm

    Didn't watch the game, either, but from all accounts the 2-0 at the end of the first favored the Sens in a big way. Anderson was the only one who showed up to play. That said, there were some tweets -- and I'm not talking about just fans -- that implied his anger was coming through in the wrong ways. After the game he, himself, pretty much admitted that he had lost it: "When you lose your composure like that, it's sometimes best to step away from the game." Not really sure what he did but some people said he showed his emotion -- and that they wished the rest of the team did the same; but some echoed Ev's sentiment.

    Wayne Scanlan ‏@HockeyScanner 23h23 hours ago Ottawa, Ontario

    Haven't seen Craig Anderson this annoyed with his teammates all season.

    Elliotte Friedman Verified account ‏@FriedgeHNIC 23h23 hours ago

    Don't think Craig Anderson is very happy with the 18 skaters in front of him.

    Pan ‏@PanofSCU 23h23 hours ago

    I hope Anderson gets to punch every single one of his teammates in the face during the intermission #Sens



    Steve Warne™ ‏@TSNSteve 23h23 hours ago

    No goal. But that should be it for Anderson anyway. He's so emotional and furious right now that his head isn't in it.


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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by Ev on Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:24 am

    SpezDispensed wrote:Also, yesterday's game was much more flattering to us than it should have been.  Without Anderson it would have been 8-1.  What a piece of Dung effort that was...can't believe it.  Be ready on Monday bunghole

    did he really have to make incredible saves? I don't buy that shot total they gave the Habs and I don't buy that Anderson stole the game just because he faced a lot of non-dangerous shots.
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by Ev on Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:24 am

    tim1_2 wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:Probably an unpopular opinion but I was not happy with Anderson last night. Reminds me of when he was in Colorado in his final days. I would start Hammond tomorrow and give him a long stretch. The team is muhc better in front of Hammond.

    Tim's gonna shout at you.

    I didn't watch the game, so I don't know if Anderson was off. I do know that Ottawa gave up 27 shots in the first period, and that's not Anderson's fault. I also know that Anderson has been great for us this year. Yeah, he's a weird dude (as are a lot of goalies), but he's usually one of our best players every time he plays.

    He's been good. Definitely not great. Great would be what he was doing last year
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    Re: GAME DAY #30: Senators @ Canadiens - 7:00pm - Saturday Dec. 12 2015

    Post by wprager on Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:53 am

    He faced 31 shots and gave up 3 goals. Since all those shots came in the first half of the game it's fair to say that a lot of them were rebounds. Those are harder to stop since the goalie is often out of position after making a save. On the other hand, you hardly ever see a goalie with a great SV% who is not facing a ton of shots. The three goalies with the best SV% (15+ starts) are Neuvirth (Philly is 29th worst in shots allowed per game), Reimer (Leafs are 25th) and Lundqvist (Rags are 27th). Holtby is 4th best and the Caps are 3rd best in allowing shots on goal -- that's somewhat of an anomaly.

    So, yeah, hard to tell without analyzing in a lot more detail, including checking those shots on rebounds -- was the rebound unavoidable or uncontrollable?

    On balance I have to agree with Ev -- Anderson's been good but he has not been great.


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