GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

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    PTFlea
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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:27 pm

    I Cussing hate that Hoffman isn't on PP 1. Hate it. It's stupid.

    I further hate that Smith is there on line 1 ES and someone like prince isnt. Diddle I'm still really annoyed.

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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by TheAvatar on Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:41 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Ev wrote:How is chiasson making  a lot of money? He's actually looked good ad a third liner over the last tow months imo. Using his size effectively

    You could literally put any forward prospect in chiassons place and you wouldn't miss a beat. No offence chiasson he'll be remembered as.  Useless.

    I can't believe Chiasson is the best deal we could get for Spezza ... We'll see how Nick Paul turns out but man ...

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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by Ev on Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:23 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:This is all on Murray, you can't have Neil, Chiaisson, Cowen, Smith, Weircioch and Boro all on the roster.  Zero quickness in that group.  

    Chiasson, Smith and Neil are pretty quick.
    What????

    Chiasson is pretty quick IMO. Smith is a good skater as well. I legit don't see the issues there. Neil, whatever he's almost done anyway, but he can still get up and go.

    Smith has been skating very well this seasno.

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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:28 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:This is all on Murray, you can't have Neil, Chiaisson, Cowen, Smith, Weircioch and Boro all on the roster.  Zero quickness in that group.  

    Chiasson, Smith and Neil are pretty quick.
    What????

    Chiasson is pretty quick IMO. Smith is a good skater as well. I legit don't see the issues there. Neil, whatever he's almost done anyway, but he can still get up and go.

    Smith has been skating very well this seasno.

    Add in Druzinsky and McCormick and you have a team of goons.

    I agree though. You can't depend on 7 people (top six + Karlsson) to provide all of your offence.

    I'd be doing whatever it takes to bring in Drouin. He's not the answer IMO but I think he's part of the solution.

    Ceci+Lazar for Drouin. I'd also bring up the Bishop trade and remind Yzerman he owes us one.

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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:31 pm

    And Ev, I don't know what games you've been watching but Chiasson has been the worst player on the ice almost every single games. He's a turnover machine and he adds zero value to the team.

    Smith on the other hand has been alright. But since he's been added to the 2nd line (1st line arguably) Turris has done absolutely nothing. He's a a great 4th liner, a good 3rd liner at best.
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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:32 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Ev wrote:Prince hasn't warranted enough to become a 1st love winger. The fact is it doesn't really matter who plays. With turris and stone if they're on their game and healthy

    See, that's where we disagree, I think it makes a load of difference.  Especially on the third line where Pageau is being held back by glaringly average players on his wings.  At least McCormick has a nice mix of grit and skill.  I wish Puempel or dzingel was on his other side so something might actually happen from time to time there 5 on 5.

    Prince is second on the team in even-strength points per sixty. That's playing with Neil and Dizzy. Imagine where his numbers would be playing in Smith's spot. Smith has *ZERO* even-strength points in FIFTEEN games! Are you telling me that Smith has somehow warranted being on the top line?


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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:36 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:Yeah, this can't really be pinned on Cameron. There's way too much panic going on in here. The team's in  slump, it happens. Look at what Montreal's been going through.

    I don't think Karlsson should keep playing 30+, but if anyone can handle it, he can.

    The coach has to be better, just like the players.  He doesn't and shouldn't get a free pass.  There is no excuse in playing Smith (zero EV points in 15 games) on the top line.  Using Boro as a forward was what, exactly?  A smart coaching move or a sign of desperation?  Or a feeble attempt to humiliate a player?  I think Cameron lucked into some injuries (Smith, Neil, Phillips) and a hot goaltender last year and everyone thought it was his coaching.  He's making the same boneheaded mistakes MacLean started making.

    I'm beginning to think this could be Murray insisting on certain players being played.

    Or something in the water at the CTC.
    Cameron using Boro as a forward and running Smith out with the first line should tell you he has no options.   Pageau is a staple as the third line centre so his options are Neil, McCormick, Chiaisson, Lazar or Prince.  

    Prince wouldn't even be in Ottawa if Murray had the balls to send him to Bingo.

    Smith worked best as the 4th line center. He's proven to be useless as a winger. Remember a couple years ago when he said he wanted to move up and would play wing? They tried, he failed miserably, and they put him back at center.

    I could see him moved up to be the 3LC and then move Pageau to play wing on the top line. Don't know if that would work but I've seen Smith on the wing not work before and seeing it again now.

    There *are* options, he's just not using them. Hell, Greening couldn't do worse than Chiasson, could he? He's "free" except for the per-diems on the road. If they are *that* cheap then bring him up for home stands, sit Chiasson.


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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:39 pm

    Agreed. Greening > Chiasson

    Maybe Murray just doesn't want to admit he got nothing of value in the Spezza deal? His only saving grace is if Nick Paul turns into a good NHLer.
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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:41 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:And Ev, I don't know what games you've been watching but Chiasson has been the worst player on the ice almost every single games. He's a turnover machine and he adds zero value to the team.

    Smith on the other hand has been alright. But since he's been added to the 2nd line (1st line arguably) Turris has done absolutely nothing. He's a a great 4th liner, a good 3rd liner at best.

    Umm, what? Chiasson has 5 giveaways and 13 takeaways. The only regular with fewer giveaways on the team is Neil, with 4 (it's hard to give something away that you never keep). Chiasson carries the puck a fair amount then either passes it off, shoots (from a bad spot) or dumps it in. Unless you are counting dump-ins as turnovers (they are, if your linemates aren't skating).


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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:42 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Agreed. Greening > Chiasson

    Maybe Murray just doesn't want to admit he got nothing of value in the Spezza deal? His only saving grace is if Nick Paul turns into a good NHLer.

    It's, really, the only thing that makes sense.

    He's skating a tiny bit better. At the start of the season he kept falling whenever he tried cutting to the inside, to the point where I wished he would stop even trying. He's not falling down any more (not as often) but he's far from a good skater.


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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by Ev on Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:57 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:And Ev, I don't know what games you've been watching but Chiasson has been the worst player on the ice almost every single games. He's a turnover machine and he adds zero value to the team.

    Smith on the other hand has been alright. But since he's been added to the 2nd line (1st line arguably) Turris has done absolutely nothing. He's a a great 4th liner, a good 3rd liner at best.

    I don't think I ever said Chiasson was great, he just is what he is. Any player he'd be replaced by would be the same. But to me he is understanding his role better and creating some chances and using his body.
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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by Ev on Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:58 pm

    wprager wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Ev wrote:Prince hasn't warranted enough to become a 1st love winger. The fact is it doesn't really matter who plays. With turris and stone if they're on their game and healthy

    See, that's where we disagree, I think it makes a load of difference.  Especially on the third line where Pageau is being held back by glaringly average players on his wings.  At least McCormick has a nice mix of grit and skill.  I wish Puempel or dzingel was on his other side so something might actually happen from time to time there 5 on 5.

    Prince is second on the team in even-strength points per sixty.  That's playing with Neil and Dizzy.  Imagine where his numbers would be playing in Smith's spot.  Smith has *ZERO* even-strength points in FIFTEEN games!  Are you telling me that Smith has somehow warranted being on the top line?

    That's an irrelevant stat since he doesn't play a lot.
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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by Ev on Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:59 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:This is all on Murray, you can't have Neil, Chiaisson, Cowen, Smith, Weircioch and Boro all on the roster.  Zero quickness in that group.  

    Chiasson, Smith and Neil are pretty quick.
    What????

    Chiasson is pretty quick IMO. Smith is a good skater as well. I legit don't see the issues there. Neil, whatever he's almost done anyway, but he can still get up and go.

    Smith has been skating very well this seasno.

    Add in Druzinsky and McCormick and you have a team of goons.

    I agree though. You can't depend on 7 people (top six + Karlsson) to provide all of your offence.

    I'd be doing whatever it takes to bring in Drouin. He's not the answer IMO but I think he's part of the solution.

    Ceci+Lazar for Drouin. I'd also bring up the Bishop trade and remind Yzerman he owes us one.  

    McCormick is more than a goon IMO.

    I don't see why you can't count on 7 people to provide all your offense. How many teams have more than that scoring a decent amount of points?

    Drouin is OK but I don't see where he plays when we're all healthy, and he has a bad reputation.
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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:27 pm

    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Ev wrote:Prince hasn't warranted enough to become a 1st love winger. The fact is it doesn't really matter who plays. With turris and stone if they're on their game and healthy

    See, that's where we disagree, I think it makes a load of difference.  Especially on the third line where Pageau is being held back by glaringly average players on his wings.  At least McCormick has a nice mix of grit and skill.  I wish Puempel or dzingel was on his other side so something might actually happen from time to time there 5 on 5.

    Prince is second on the team in even-strength points per sixty.  That's playing with Neil and Dizzy.  Imagine where his numbers would be playing in Smith's spot.  Smith has *ZERO* even-strength points in FIFTEEN games!  Are you telling me that Smith has somehow warranted being on the top line?

    That's an irrelevant stat since he doesn't play a lot.

    He's playing same ice time that Smith played before he got promoted. I'll ask again, how has *Smith* earned the right to be on the top line? And a follow-up: Since he's been promoted to the top line, what has he done to stay there?

    P.S. The answer is: 0 even strength points in 15 games, a.k.a. "nothing".


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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:31 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:This is all on Murray, you can't have Neil, Chiaisson, Cowen, Smith, Weircioch and Boro all on the roster.  Zero quickness in that group.  

    Chiasson, Smith and Neil are pretty quick.
    What????

    Chiasson is pretty quick IMO. Smith is a good skater as well. I legit don't see the issues there. Neil, whatever he's almost done anyway, but he can still get up and go.

    Smith has been skating very well this seasno.
    I am not talking about speed, but quickness. Winning races to pucks usually involves quick 2 step acceleration from a stop or quick change of direction. Greening won fastest skater but was anything but quick. My point is that you need that quickness to defend in the league today and also to get to loose pucks in the offensive zone to maintain pressure. This team's skating is better than a few years ago but there are significant problems with the current roster still.
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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:34 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:This is all on Murray, you can't have Neil, Chiaisson, Cowen, Smith, Weircioch and Boro all on the roster.  Zero quickness in that group.  

    Chiasson, Smith and Neil are pretty quick.
    What????

    Chiasson is pretty quick IMO. Smith is a good skater as well. I legit don't see the issues there. Neil, whatever he's almost done anyway, but he can still get up and go.

    Smith has been skating very well this seasno.

    Add in Druzinsky and McCormick and you have a team of goons.

    I agree though. You can't depend on 7 people (top six + Karlsson) to provide all of your offence.

    I'd be doing whatever it takes to bring in Drouin. He's not the answer IMO but I think he's part of the solution.

    Ceci+Lazar for Drouin. I'd also bring up the Bishop trade and remind Yzerman he owes us one.  
    McCormick is the perfect bottom six type player. He is not a goon, but more of an agitator who can skate.

    Ceci + Lazar is a big overpay for someone who hasn't proved a thing at the pro level yet. Lazar + pick maybe.
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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:35 pm

    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:This is all on Murray, you can't have Neil, Chiaisson, Cowen, Smith, Weircioch and Boro all on the roster.  Zero quickness in that group.  

    Chiasson, Smith and Neil are pretty quick.
    What????

    Chiasson is pretty quick IMO. Smith is a good skater as well. I legit don't see the issues there. Neil, whatever he's almost done anyway, but he can still get up and go.

    Smith has been skating very well this seasno.

    Add in Druzinsky and McCormick and you have a team of goons.

    I agree though. You can't depend on 7 people (top six + Karlsson) to provide all of your offence.

    I'd be doing whatever it takes to bring in Drouin. He's not the answer IMO but I think he's part of the solution.

    Ceci+Lazar for Drouin. I'd also bring up the Bishop trade and remind Yzerman he owes us one.  

    McCormick is more than a goon IMO.

    I don't see why you can't count on 7 people to provide all your offense. How many teams have more than that scoring a decent amount of points?

    Drouin is OK but I don't see where he plays when we're all healthy, and he has a bad reputation.

    Sens have 9 players with double-digit points. Boston has 11. Montreal has 14. If you raise the bar to 15, Ottawa has 7, Boston and Montreal have 9.

    May not sound like much but when injuries hit (as they have) we simply do not have the depth.


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    Re: GAME DAY #39: Senators @ Blackhawks - 7:00 pm - Sunday, Jan 3 2016

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:37 pm

    By the way, no matter how you compare Smith and Prince, it's not even close. He's playing better than Lazar (both offensively and defensively).

    And I am not a big Prince fan.


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