How do we fix the Senators

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    Oglethorpe
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Oglethorpe on Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:30 pm

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:Going into this season with the D they had they took a lot of gambles on a lot of players.

    Cowen showed nothing but being young to believe it improve.

    Weircioch they believed would replicate what he did at the end of last season and continue to progress

    Ceci they thought was a legit to 4 D based on his part last season.

    None of that paid off plus Zibanejad not taking the next step and injuries to CMac and Michalek hurt.

    It's obvious. Way too many gambles on way too many players.
    Economics dictated all the gambles, but I think the next GM will at least have this year to see that a big change of course is required.

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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:32 pm

    And I don't even see Edmonton trading macdavid for karlsson. The hype around macdavid is too high.

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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:34 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Cap'n Clutch wrote:Going into this season with the D they had they took a lot of gambles on a lot of players.

    Cowen showed nothing but being young to believe it improve.

    Weircioch they believed would replicate what he did at the end of last season and continue to progress

    Ceci they thought was a legit to 4 D based on his part last season.

    None of that paid off plus Zibanejad not taking the next step and injuries to CMac and Michalek hurt.

    It's obvious. Way too many gambles on way too many players.
    Economics dictated all the gambles, but I think the next GM will at least have this year to see that a big change of course is required.  
    If the GM comes from outside the org he might just pull a chichi and sit on the team once again to "evaluate" what he has. I'm in favour of promoting Dorion as he has first hand knowledge of the team we have. If there's a move to be made, I'm sure he'll do it.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by wprager on Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:45 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:Our current depth at centre is average at best.  We have 2 number 2s and a few number 3s.  


    I know exactly what you're saying, but looking around the league, most teams don't have a #1 center. Simple fact is, there aren't 30 #1 centers in the league. There are, maybe, 10, and Pittsburgh has two of them.


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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:56 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:Our current depth at centre is average at best.  We have 2 number 2s and a few number 3s.  


    I know exactly what you're saying, but looking around the league, most teams don't have a #1 center.  Simple fact is, there aren't 30 #1 centers in the league.  There are, maybe, 10, and Pittsburgh has two of them.

    You're on a roll today. Did you eat your spinach?
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Oglethorpe on Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:56 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:Our current depth at centre is average at best.  We have 2 number 2s and a few number 3s.  


    I know exactly what you're saying, but looking around the league, most teams don't have a #1 center.  Simple fact is, there aren't 30 #1 centers in the league.  There are, maybe, 10, and Pittsburgh has two of them.
    Which is why I would argue for an EK McDavid swap.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:53 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:Our current depth at centre is average at best.  We have 2 number 2s and a few number 3s.  


    I know exactly what you're saying, but looking around the league, most teams don't have a #1 center.  Simple fact is, there aren't 30 #1 centers in the league.  There are, maybe, 10, and Pittsburgh has two of them.
    Which is why I would argue for an EK McDavid swap.  
    We'd have no defence. We'd pretty much have to start over all over again then we'd not even know what the team looks like in 4 years. About as terrible an idea as I've heard so far. losing our best defenseman (not to mention the best defencemen in the game)just so we can have a kid that can be the player in 2 years is giving up on everything. By proposing that you seem to be giving up on everything else that's been done.
    Can't even agree one bit.
    We just need a couple of pieces. Guys to mature. That's it. Nothing that can't be done by next pre-season.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Oglethorpe on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:11 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:Our current depth at centre is average at best.  We have 2 number 2s and a few number 3s.  


    I know exactly what you're saying, but looking around the league, most teams don't have a #1 center.  Simple fact is, there aren't 30 #1 centers in the league.  There are, maybe, 10, and Pittsburgh has two of them.
    Which is why I would argue for an EK McDavid swap.  
    We'd have no defence. We'd pretty much have to start over all over again then we'd not even know what the team looks like in 4 years. About as terrible an idea as I've heard so far. losing our best defenseman (not to mention the best defencemen in the game)just so we can have a kid that can be the player in 2 years is giving up on everything. By proposing that you seem to be giving up on everything else that's been done.
    Can't even agree one bit.
    We just need a couple of pieces. Guys to mature. That's it. Nothing that can't be done by next pre-season.
    We need a top pairing left D, a giant leap forward from Zib, a top 6 LW, re-sign Hoff, unload Cowen and Weir. No problem especially the top 6 LW and top LD when Chabot and White are not in play.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by PTFlea on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:15 pm

    I'm not for stop gaps, but this team needs to overpay for a real left handed veteran on D then go out and find a left winger too.

    Those are the areas of importance, maybe with a 2c as well. Tough to do...
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:19 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:I'm not for stop gaps, but this team needs to overpay for a real left handed veteran on D then go out and find a left winger too.  

    Those are the areas of importance, maybe with a 2c as well.  Tough to do...

    Trade Ceci for Drouin and you get your LW and eliminate the need for a LHD.

    Easy as pie.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:21 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:Our current depth at centre is average at best.  We have 2 number 2s and a few number 3s.  


    I know exactly what you're saying, but looking around the league, most teams don't have a #1 center.  Simple fact is, there aren't 30 #1 centers in the league.  There are, maybe, 10, and Pittsburgh has two of them.
    Which is why I would argue for an EK McDavid swap.  
    We'd have no defence. We'd pretty much have to start over all over again then we'd not even know what the team looks like in 4 years. About as terrible an idea as I've heard so far. losing our best defenseman (not to mention the best defencemen in the game)just so we can have a kid that can be the player in 2 years is giving up on everything. By proposing that you seem to be giving up on everything else that's been done.
    Can't even agree one bit.
    We just need a couple of pieces. Guys to mature. That's it. Nothing that can't be done by next pre-season.
    We need a top pairing left D, a giant leap forward from Zib, a top 6 LW, re-sign Hoff, unload Cowen and Weir.  No problem especially the top 6 LW and top LD when Chabot and White are not in play.  
    I third be fine with methot play with karlsson when he's healthy so really we could use a top 4 Left D. We could use a top 6 LW but that also depends on MacArthur, let's also see the progression of puempel. I think Zib can do alright if he progresses at the current pace on our second line.
    So yes, to me that would be a vast improvement. That leaves all our picks up for trade along with lazar that still has value and some prospects. I think we can make a top 4 and a top 6 appear out of that and free agency?
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:23 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:I'm not for stop gaps, but this team needs to overpay for a real left handed veteran on D then go out and find a left winger too.  

    Those are the areas of importance, maybe with a 2c as well.  Tough to do...
    Zib is still young and he's looking better over the course of this season. It will take another season but I think we're ok with him.

    Top 4 D is the target. A top 6 LW would be nice but with a healthy team I'm not sure how urgent that is. BM chasing drouin thinks otherwise I imagine.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Oglethorpe on Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:04 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:I'm not for stop gaps, but this team needs to overpay for a real left handed veteran on D then go out and find a left winger too.  

    Those are the areas of importance, maybe with a 2c as well.  Tough to do...

    Trade Ceci for Drouin and you get your LW and eliminate the need for a LHD.

    Easy as pie.
    Then we would need atop pairing LD and 2nd pairing RD and likely a top 6 LW since Drouin needs some time even if he doesn't bust.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Oglethorpe on Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:06 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:Our current depth at centre is average at best.  We have 2 number 2s and a few number 3s.  


    I know exactly what you're saying, but looking around the league, most teams don't have a #1 center.  Simple fact is, there aren't 30 #1 centers in the league.  There are, maybe, 10, and Pittsburgh has two of them.
    Which is why I would argue for an EK McDavid swap.  
    We'd have no defence. We'd pretty much have to start over all over again then we'd not even know what the team looks like in 4 years. About as terrible an idea as I've heard so far. losing our best defenseman (not to mention the best defencemen in the game)just so we can have a kid that can be the player in 2 years is giving up on everything. By proposing that you seem to be giving up on everything else that's been done.
    Can't even agree one bit.
    We just need a couple of pieces. Guys to mature. That's it. Nothing that can't be done by next pre-season.
    We need a top pairing left D, a giant leap forward from Zib, a top 6 LW, re-sign Hoff, unload Cowen and Weir.  No problem especially the top 6 LW and top LD when Chabot and White are not in play.  
    I third be fine with methot play with karlsson when he's healthy so really we could use a top 4 Left D. We could use a top 6 LW but that also depends on MacArthur, let's also see the progression of puempel. I think Zib can do alright if he progresses at the current pace on our second line.
    So yes, to me that would be a vast improvement. That leaves all our picks up for trade along with lazar that still has value and some prospects. I think we can make a top 4 and a top 6 appear out of that and free agency?
    Methot is a 2nd pair guy, MacArthur wasn't a true top 6 last year before getting concussed Puempel could be a top 6 in a few years but not right away.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by wprager on Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:33 pm

    Congratulations, everyone, we did it. We fixed the Senators!


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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:44 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:Our current depth at centre is average at best.  We have 2 number 2s and a few number 3s.  


    I know exactly what you're saying, but looking around the league, most teams don't have a #1 center.  Simple fact is, there aren't 30 #1 centers in the league.  There are, maybe, 10, and Pittsburgh has two of them.
    Which is why I would argue for an EK McDavid swap.  
    We'd have no defence. We'd pretty much have to start over all over again then we'd not even know what the team looks like in 4 years. About as terrible an idea as I've heard so far. losing our best defenseman (not to mention the best defencemen in the game)just so we can have a kid that can be the player in 2 years is giving up on everything. By proposing that you seem to be giving up on everything else that's been done.
    Can't even agree one bit.
    We just need a couple of pieces. Guys to mature. That's it. Nothing that can't be done by next pre-season.
    We need a top pairing left D, a giant leap forward from Zib, a top 6 LW, re-sign Hoff, unload Cowen and Weir.  No problem especially the top 6 LW and top LD when Chabot and White are not in play.  
    I third be fine with methot play with karlsson when he's healthy so really we could use a top 4 Left D. We could use a top 6 LW but that also depends on MacArthur, let's also see the progression of puempel. I think Zib can do alright if he progresses at the current pace on our second line.
    So yes, to me that would be a vast improvement. That leaves all our picks up for trade along with lazar that still has value and some prospects. I think we can make a top 4 and a top 6 appear out of that and free agency?
    Methot is a 2nd pair guy, MacArthur wasn't a true top 6 last year before getting concussed Puempel could be a top 6 in a few years but not right away.  
    see this is where i don't agree. what you are describing is a team that is maybe in the top 5 teams in the NHL. in an ideal world is mac in the top 9 because the depth is that good? sure.
    is methot a 2nd pairing guy? sure. but lets be honest, there isn't many of those teams around that are stacked.
    we are luck enough to have a guy like karlsson that i think we can live without having a 1st pairing guy to go with him. and yes certain players will develop into positions. in time chabot and white will take their place and possibly push guys out. i believe that we aren't that far away from contending for a cup. i never thought we were this year. if anything i thought we were a team that could make it to the second round. get some experience for the young guys. what i didnt bank on was the number of injuries we've been experiencing.
    this team can beat both LA and chicago when they are on the ball. i see that, i see a team that's not that far. and i don't wanna hear any of the any team can beat any team on any given night but not in the playoffs. there's weight to that but if we can beat them then we aren't far from beating more then once. like i said, we are a top 4 and a top 6 away from being that team. the top 6 guy might come from within and the top 4 we will likely have to make a move for.
    we shouldnt be wanting to blow everything up because we aren't the perfect model for a contender. we can get there. in time.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:50 am

    wprager wrote:Congratulations, everyone, we did it.  We fixed the Senators!

    Was there ever any doubt?

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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:53 am

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:Our current depth at centre is average at best.  We have 2 number 2s and a few number 3s.  


    I know exactly what you're saying, but looking around the league, most teams don't have a #1 center.  Simple fact is, there aren't 30 #1 centers in the league.  There are, maybe, 10, and Pittsburgh has two of them.
    Which is why I would argue for an EK McDavid swap.  
    We'd have no defence. We'd pretty much have to start over all over again then we'd not even know what the team looks like in 4 years. About as terrible an idea as I've heard so far. losing our best defenseman (not to mention the best defencemen in the game)just so we can have a kid that can be the player in 2 years is giving up on everything. By proposing that you seem to be giving up on everything else that's been done.
    Can't even agree one bit.
    We just need a couple of pieces. Guys to mature. That's it. Nothing that can't be done by next pre-season.
    We need a top pairing left D, a giant leap forward from Zib, a top 6 LW, re-sign Hoff, unload Cowen and Weir.  No problem especially the top 6 LW and top LD when Chabot and White are not in play.  
    I third be fine with methot play with karlsson when he's healthy so really we could use a top 4 Left D. We could use a top 6 LW but that also depends on MacArthur, let's also see the progression of puempel. I think Zib can do alright if he progresses at the current pace on our second line.
    So yes, to me that would be a vast improvement. That leaves all our picks up for trade along with lazar that still has value and some prospects. I think we can make a top 4 and a top 6 appear out of that and free agency?
    Methot is a 2nd pair guy, MacArthur wasn't a true top 6 last year before getting concussed Puempel could be a top 6 in a few years but not right away.  
    see this is where i don't agree. what you are describing is a team that is maybe in the top 5 teams in the NHL. in an ideal world is mac in the top 9 because the depth is that good? sure.
    is methot a 2nd pairing guy? sure. but lets be honest, there isn't many of those teams around that are stacked.
    we are luck enough to have a guy like karlsson that i think we can live without having a 1st pairing guy to go with him. and yes certain players will develop into positions. in time chabot and white will take their place and possibly push guys out. i believe that we aren't that far away from contending for a cup. i never thought we were this year. if anything i thought we were a team that could make it to the second round. get some experience for the young guys. what i didnt bank on was the number of injuries we've been experiencing.
    this team can beat both LA and chicago when they are on the ball. i see that, i see a team that's not that far. and i don't wanna hear any of the any team can beat any team on any given night but not in the playoffs. there's weight to that but if we can beat them then we aren't far from beating more then once. like i said, we are a top 4 and a top 6 away from being that team. the top 6 guy might come from within and the top 4 we will likely have to make a move for.
    we shouldnt be wanting to blow everything up because we aren't the perfect model for a contender. we can get there. in time.
    I thought the goal WAS to be a top 5 team.

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