How do we fix the Senators

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    Ev
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Ev on Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:46 am

    also just to be clear, I am not saying Lazar is untouchable, I just wouldn't trade him for Yakupov. If we're trading him, I want an established player in return

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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:56 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:I wonder if Columbus would look at a Cowen/Prince for Tyutin deal.  Tyutin has an NMC but that would be a real nice fit.  

    Agreed. I mentioned this before as well. I like Scott "Suck it Phaneuf" Hartnell as well.

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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:06 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:I wonder if Columbus would look at a Cowen/Prince for Tyutin deal.  Tyutin has an NMC but that would be a real nice fit.  

    Agreed. I mentioned this before as well. I like Scott "Suck it Phaneuf" Hartnell as well.
    Hartnell's contract goes for awhile and will be another anchor in a year or 2. If he only had 2 years left then I would like him a lot more.
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    wprager
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:27 pm

    Ev wrote:
    He's going to be a lot better than Condra. He has a much better shot and much better pedigree. He is already as good as Condra at 21 years old.

    Lazar will top out as a second line two-way winger like Dustin Brown or Ryan Callahan. He's already a very important piece for the team at such a young age.

    Yakupov is a one dimensional overhyped player who is obviously more skilled but won't provide anything that we need to win games.  

    How would you know if he has a better shot than Condra? He hardly ever shoots. In what capacity is he "already as good"? And even if he is "already as good" you have to remember that Condra was a good 4th liner/penalty killer and never showed signs of being a second line player.


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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:29 pm

    Ev wrote:also just to be clear, I am not saying Lazar is untouchable, I just wouldn't trade him for Yakupov. If we're trading him, I want an established player in return

    If you have enough character in the room I could see it. But I'd prefer if Nail showed a little bit more, first. The way he plays now I don't want him on my team.


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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:51 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:also just to be clear, I am not saying Lazar is untouchable, I just wouldn't trade him for Yakupov. If we're trading him, I want an established player in return

    If you have enough character in the room I could see it.  But I'd prefer if Nail showed a little bit more, first.  The way he plays now I don't want him on my team.

    I'm just concerned that Lazar's stock will begin to drop similar to Ceci's. It's year two - he's on pace for two more points than last year (over 67 games). It's not that I don't think he has value - it's that I think his value will drop when he's halfway through next season in the last year of his ELC and he's putting up 15 points and we don't know what to do with him. I feel the exact same with Ceci now.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:17 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:I don't get the hard on for Shatt,  zero chance of him resigning to play behind EK.    
    You mean the way Brent seabrook plays on the second pairing behind, the pairing of Duncan Keith?

    I think players understand depth wins staley cups. As long as he gets paid what he is worth I don't see shatts being a problem to resign. Much like seabrook did.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:36 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:I don't get the hard on for Shatt,  zero chance of him resigning to play behind EK.    
    You mean the way Brent seabrook plays on the second pairing behind, the pairing of Duncan Keith?

    I think players understand depth wins staley cups. As long as he gets paid what he is worth I don't see shatts being a problem to resign. Much like seabrook did.
    This is the first season they haven't been paired together over 50 per cent of the time 5 on 5 plus they both play PP since they are left right combo.

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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:44 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:also just to be clear, I am not saying Lazar is untouchable, I just wouldn't trade him for Yakupov. If we're trading him, I want an established player in return

    If you have enough character in the room I could see it.  But I'd prefer if Nail showed a little bit more, first.  The way he plays now I don't want him on my team.

    I would rather someone with skill (Yakupov) than someone's who greatest asset is an intangible (leadership).
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:45 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:also just to be clear, I am not saying Lazar is untouchable, I just wouldn't trade him for Yakupov. If we're trading him, I want an established player in return

    If you have enough character in the room I could see it.  But I'd prefer if Nail showed a little bit more, first.  The way he plays now I don't want him on my team.

    I'm just concerned that Lazar's stock will begin to drop similar to Ceci's. It's year two - he's on pace for two more points than last year (over 67 games). It's not that I don't think he has value - it's that I think his value will drop when he's halfway through next season in the last year of his ELC and he's putting up 15 points and we don't know what to do with him. I feel the exact same with Ceci now.
    Ceci's value hasn't dropped, I don't know where you get this from. Ceci is a 22 year old who has passed Wercioch and Cowen on the depth chart and is starting to show a comfort level of a more experienced player.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:46 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:also just to be clear, I am not saying Lazar is untouchable, I just wouldn't trade him for Yakupov. If we're trading him, I want an established player in return

    If you have enough character in the room I could see it.  But I'd prefer if Nail showed a little bit more, first.  The way he plays now I don't want him on my team.

    I would rather someone with skill (Yakupov) than someone's who greatest asset is an intangible (leadership).
    How's that working out for the Oilers.

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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:54 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:also just to be clear, I am not saying Lazar is untouchable, I just wouldn't trade him for Yakupov. If we're trading him, I want an established player in return

    If you have enough character in the room I could see it.  But I'd prefer if Nail showed a little bit more, first.  The way he plays now I don't want him on my team.

    I would rather someone with skill (Yakupov) than someone's who greatest asset is an intangible (leadership).
    How's that working out for the Oilers.  

    Oilers have too much skill and not enough leadership. That's why we signed Neil, Phillips, and Michalek isn't it? For leadership? Add Karlsson, Ryan, and Turris and that's a pretty dynamic group of leaders.

    Who do the Oilers have? Hall? That's about it...
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:04 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:also just to be clear, I am not saying Lazar is untouchable, I just wouldn't trade him for Yakupov. If we're trading him, I want an established player in return

    If you have enough character in the room I could see it.  But I'd prefer if Nail showed a little bit more, first.  The way he plays now I don't want him on my team.

    I'm just concerned that Lazar's stock will begin to drop similar to Ceci's. It's year two - he's on pace for two more points than last year (over 67 games). It's not that I don't think he has value - it's that I think his value will drop when he's halfway through next season in the last year of his ELC and he's putting up 15 points and we don't know what to do with him. I feel the exact same with Ceci now.
    Ceci's value hasn't dropped, I don't know where you get this from.   Ceci is a 22 year old who has passed Wercioch and Cowen on the depth chart and is starting to show a comfort level of a more experienced player.  

    Yeah. Ceci's trade value appears to be quite high and will probably never be higher.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:29 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:also just to be clear, I am not saying Lazar is untouchable, I just wouldn't trade him for Yakupov. If we're trading him, I want an established player in return

    If you have enough character in the room I could see it.  But I'd prefer if Nail showed a little bit more, first.  The way he plays now I don't want him on my team.

    I'm just concerned that Lazar's stock will begin to drop similar to Ceci's. It's year two - he's on pace for two more points than last year (over 67 games). It's not that I don't think he has value - it's that I think his value will drop when he's halfway through next season in the last year of his ELC and he's putting up 15 points and we don't know what to do with him. I feel the exact same with Ceci now.
    Ceci's value hasn't dropped, I don't know where you get this from.   Ceci is a 22 year old who has passed Wercioch and Cowen on the depth chart and is starting to show a comfort level of a more experienced player.  

    Yeah. Ceci's trade value appears to be quite high and will probably never be higher.
    Come on..... Even you has to be able to admit that he's been making less mistakes lately. I don't know if he can reach his full potential but at 22, I doubt he regresses. It looks to me as good bet that he'll be a valuable top 4 in his career. May not be shatts level and that's why I'd trade Ceci, if another deal brought him in.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:31 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:I don't get the hard on for Shatt,  zero chance of him resigning to play behind EK.    
    You mean the way Brent seabrook plays on the second pairing behind, the pairing of Duncan Keith?

    I think players understand depth wins staley cups. As long as he gets paid what he is worth I don't see shatts being a problem to resign. Much like seabrook did.
    This is the first season they haven't been paired together over 50 per cent of the time 5 on 5 plus they both play PP since they are left right combo.  
    No it isn't. They've separated them quite a few times over the years. You are right that they can be paired up on the PP but I would argue that that's not the defining factor as to why seabrook resigned. I think winning and getting paid what you're worth comes ahead of being "the guy". And shatts coming out of st-Louis I'm sure understands that. He probably wants to contribute to a team that can win as opposed to retrograde to being the number 1 on a team that can barely make it. Which is where UFA's often land in this cap world.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by dennycrane on Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:32 pm

    To fix this team (which you must do if you want to prevent EK from leaving town in a couple of years):

    1. Upgrade the center position. There are some good players but no elite centerman. Look over the last ten years and tell me which Stanley Cup winning team has a worse #1 center than Turris or Zibanejad.
    2. Using the same example, those teams had strong top 4 D's. The Sens D is terrible when EK is not on the ice.

    To do this, you need an owner who will lose millions with a dollar at par.
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:01 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:also just to be clear, I am not saying Lazar is untouchable, I just wouldn't trade him for Yakupov. If we're trading him, I want an established player in return

    If you have enough character in the room I could see it.  But I'd prefer if Nail showed a little bit more, first.  The way he plays now I don't want him on my team.

    I'm just concerned that Lazar's stock will begin to drop similar to Ceci's. It's year two - he's on pace for two more points than last year (over 67 games). It's not that I don't think he has value - it's that I think his value will drop when he's halfway through next season in the last year of his ELC and he's putting up 15 points and we don't know what to do with him. I feel the exact same with Ceci now.
    Ceci's value hasn't dropped, I don't know where you get this from.   Ceci is a 22 year old who has passed Wercioch and Cowen on the depth chart and is starting to show a comfort level of a more experienced player.  

    Yeah. Ceci's trade value appears to be quite high and will probably never be higher.
    Come on..... Even you has to be able to admit that he's been making less mistakes lately. I don't know if he can reach his full potential but at 22, I doubt he regresses. It looks to me as good bet that he'll be a valuable top 4 in his career. May not be shatts level and that's why I'd trade Ceci, if another deal brought him in.

    You think Cowen is overpaid? Wait til Ceci asks for "Top 4" bucks. His current salary is a big factor in his trade value, wouldn't you agree?
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    Re: How do we fix the Senators

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:11 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:also just to be clear, I am not saying Lazar is untouchable, I just wouldn't trade him for Yakupov. If we're trading him, I want an established player in return

    If you have enough character in the room I could see it.  But I'd prefer if Nail showed a little bit more, first.  The way he plays now I don't want him on my team.

    I'm just concerned that Lazar's stock will begin to drop similar to Ceci's. It's year two - he's on pace for two more points than last year (over 67 games). It's not that I don't think he has value - it's that I think his value will drop when he's halfway through next season in the last year of his ELC and he's putting up 15 points and we don't know what to do with him. I feel the exact same with Ceci now.
    Ceci's value hasn't dropped, I don't know where you get this from.   Ceci is a 22 year old who has passed Wercioch and Cowen on the depth chart and is starting to show a comfort level of a more experienced player.  

    Yeah. Ceci's trade value appears to be quite high and will probably never be higher.
    Come on..... Even you has to be able to admit that he's been making less mistakes lately. I don't know if he can reach his full potential but at 22, I doubt he regresses. It looks to me as good bet that he'll be a valuable top 4 in his career. May not be shatts level and that's why I'd trade Ceci, if another deal brought him in.

    You think Cowen is overpaid? Wait til Ceci asks for "Top 4" bucks. His current salary is a big factor in his trade value, wouldn't you agree?
    Yes quite possibly, but look at the bridge deal. The same as Zib and stone.

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