Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

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    Oglethorpe
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Oglethorpe on Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:18 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:LRT doesn't serve the whole city.

    Anyway, here's more on the Sens bid:

    http://illuminationlebreton.ca/
    You lost me on transit options. LRT goes to both ends of the area. The western end is where Melnyk's arena will go and that is where LRT and O-Train meet.

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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by wprager on Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:22 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:Unless you're planning on living in Lebreton Flats, none of us care about the sightlines.  They're really going to have to come up with good public transit options, but that'll more up to the city than the developers.

    Another bridge or two (and none of these dinky 1-2 lane bridges, either) would help. 500 parking spaces allocated to the arena is not going to work. Montrealers may be used to taking the bus or metro to the games, but Ottowans will take a while to adapt. Transporting 18,000 to and from was always a huge obstacle in my opinion. I have not seen a solution to that yet. Even if LRT is the answer, that only resolves traffic from the East and South, it does nothing for the North or West. They want to increase the ticketholder base by expanding into Aylmer -- sure, it's not as far as Kanata, but it's still a pain to use the existing routes. And people from Kanata -- the existing ticket holders -- will likely just stay home.

    I see where Melnyk wants to go to -- clearly my having fewer seats, stating he wants it to be an event and so on -- translation is "Higher ticket prices". Seriously, it's about time, since they are the lowest tickets in Canada, for a city that is one of the most affluent.

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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by wprager on Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:25 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:LRT doesn't serve the whole city.

    Anyway, here's more on the Sens bid:

    http://illuminationlebreton.ca/
    You lost me on transit options.   LRT goes to both ends of the area.  The western end is where Melnyk's arena will go and that is where LRT and O-Train meet.

    There is no LRT in the West. Whose Koolaid have you been drinking?
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Ev on Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:26 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:LRT doesn't serve the whole city.

    Anyway, here's more on the Sens bid:

    http://illuminationlebreton.ca/
    You lost me on transit options.   LRT goes to both ends of the area.  The western end is where Melnyk's arena will go and that is where LRT and O-Train meet.

    There is no LRT in the West.  Whose Koolaid have you been drinking?

    LRt is going to Westboro
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Ev on Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:27 pm

    the DevCore proposal looks good and will definitely appeal to many of the NCC Green Hippie type people. Most of their imagery is during the day whereas the IllumiNATION is mostly at night.

    but it looks like it has ugly Claridge condos
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by wprager on Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:51 pm

    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:LRT doesn't serve the whole city.

    Anyway, here's more on the Sens bid:

    http://illuminationlebreton.ca/
    You lost me on transit options.   LRT goes to both ends of the area.  The western end is where Melnyk's arena will go and that is where LRT and O-Train meet.

    There is no LRT in the West.  Whose Koolaid have you been drinking?

    LRt is going to Westboro

    LOL you think that's West?


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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Ev on Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:53 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:LRT doesn't serve the whole city.

    Anyway, here's more on the Sens bid:

    http://illuminationlebreton.ca/
    You lost me on transit options.   LRT goes to both ends of the area.  The western end is where Melnyk's arena will go and that is where LRT and O-Train meet.

    There is no LRT in the West.  Whose Koolaid have you been drinking?

    LRt is going to Westboro

    LOL you think that's West?  

    We're not talking Kanata here. Nobody cares about Kanata.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by wprager on Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:55 pm

    I think a little illumination is in order:

    1: Lebreton Flats
    2: Westboro
    3: Kanata

    And Kanata/Stittsville is where a lot of the current ticket base lives.



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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Ev on Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:58 pm

    wprager wrote:I think a little illumination is in order:

    1: Lebreton Flats
    2: Westboro
    3: Kanata

    And Kanata/Stittsville is where a lot of the current ticket base lives.


    Yes but the point is they will have buses to come to the games just like everyone else coming from the city centre has now.

    LRT will cover a decent sized portion of area for fans to come to the game.

    They want the city centre fanbase and Gatineau fanbase to expand.

    If the question is "is LRT going west", the answer is yes because it is going to the west of the city centre, westboro/hintonburg/wellington west.

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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by wprager on Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:04 pm

    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:LRT doesn't serve the whole city.

    Anyway, here's more on the Sens bid:

    http://illuminationlebreton.ca/
    You lost me on transit options.   LRT goes to both ends of the area.  The western end is where Melnyk's arena will go and that is where LRT and O-Train meet.

    There is no LRT in the West.  Whose Koolaid have you been drinking?

    LRt is going to Westboro

    LOL you think that's West?  

    We're not talking Kanata here. Nobody cares about Kanata.

    Like I keep saying, that's where a lot of your season ticket holders live now. My brother in law has been a season ticket holder for the last 20 years or longer. He didn't renew this year because he's finding it a huge commitment in time just to go from Beaverbrook to the CTC. Meanwhile the couch at home is very comfy and the HD broadcast is great (and just wait till they have 4K). A lot of the ticket holders, like him, are getting older and their kids aren't taking over the tickets, either. This move will just accelerate their decision.

    Look, I'm not saying the Sens are doomed if they move, not at all. Just saying that transportation *will be* an issue because a lot of people will still want to come by car, because mass transit simply is not an option. It's not like Ottawa downtown core has a lot of people -- most live out in Nepean/Barrhaven, Orleanse/Rockland and Kanata. Sure, you'll get some new season ticket holders from Westboro, just not sure how many of those are hockey consumers to begin. Guess we'll see. I suppose if I really wanted I could drive to Barrhaven and take the train. Actually, I'm probably moving to Barrhaven in the next 4-5 years anyway.


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    wprager
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by wprager on Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:09 pm

    The drive *across* Ottawa is 20 minutes max at top speed. The issue is getting to the highway. I live in Morgan's Grant and have had to go to Colonel By highschool a few times, recently. Takes about a half hour, and 12 minutes of that is spent on March Road getting to the highway. Getting out of LeBreton will be similar (but worse).

    CTC holds 18K and you have 4,000 cars in the parking lot, most hold 2-3 people. A few hundred more cars park around. Of the 18,000 people I'd say 12-15,000 are driving. That simply will not work in LeBreton, so mass transit will be absolutely essential, and it will not serve Kanata.

    Guess you're right, no one cares about Kanata.

    LRT will not help Kanata/Stittsville.


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    tim1_2
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by tim1_2 on Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:20 pm

    I think saying that no one cares about Kanata is a little short sighted. Obviously Thu west and east ends of the city have big population bases that they'll want to draw on. If they have OC Transpo shuttles from all the Park and Rides, then that's cool.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:37 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:I think saying that no one cares about Kanata is a little short sighted. Obviously Thu west and east ends of the city have big population bases that they'll want to draw on. If they have OC Transpo shuttles from all the Park and Rides, then that's cool.


    Part of a cycle. People have been pushed outward from the centre for years, now they're being drawn back in.

    Anyway, we all knew if they moved from Kanata, the crying from shift from Orleans and downtown to points west. Difference is there will be better public transit from the West to Lebreton when all is said and done and they will never have it as bad as people in the South and East have had it for years.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by LeCaptain on Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:54 pm

    Diddle MOntreal and their billionaires.

    Get it done Gene.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Oglethorpe on Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:58 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:LRT doesn't serve the whole city.

    Anyway, here's more on the Sens bid:

    http://illuminationlebreton.ca/
    You lost me on transit options.   LRT goes to both ends of the area.  The western end is where Melnyk's arena will go and that is where LRT and O-Train meet.

    There is no LRT in the West.  Whose Koolaid have you been drinking?
    It will go to Bayshore by 2023. Park and ride, crazy idea.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Oglethorpe on Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:06 pm

    wprager wrote:The drive *across* Ottawa is 20 minutes max at top speed.  The issue is getting to the highway.  I live in Morgan's Grant and have had to go to Colonel By highschool a few times, recently.  Takes about a half hour, and 12 minutes of that is spent on March Road getting to the highway.  Getting out of LeBreton will be similar (but worse).  

    CTC holds 18K and you have 4,000 cars in the parking lot, most hold 2-3 people.  A few hundred more cars park around.  Of the 18,000 people I'd say 12-15,000 are driving.  That simply will not work in LeBreton, so mass transit will be absolutely essential, and it will not serve Kanata.

    Guess you're right, no one cares about Kanata.

    LRT will not help Kanata/Stittsville.
    If I lived in the south, centre or east end of the city or in Gatineau I would never go to CTC.

    Moving the team to Lebreton is basically tripling the market they can realistically pull fans in from.

    Also, using transit makes for more drinking, which makes for a louder and more energetic experience.

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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:13 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    wprager wrote:The drive *across* Ottawa is 20 minutes max at top speed.  The issue is getting to the highway.  I live in Morgan's Grant and have had to go to Colonel By highschool a few times, recently.  Takes about a half hour, and 12 minutes of that is spent on March Road getting to the highway.  Getting out of LeBreton will be similar (but worse).  

    CTC holds 18K and you have 4,000 cars in the parking lot, most hold 2-3 people.  A few hundred more cars park around.  Of the 18,000 people I'd say 12-15,000 are driving.  That simply will not work in LeBreton, so mass transit will be absolutely essential, and it will not serve Kanata.

    Guess you're right, no one cares about Kanata.

    LRT will not help Kanata/Stittsville.
    If I lived in the south, centre or east end of the city or in Gatineau I would never go to CTC.  

    Moving the team to Lebreton is basically tripling the market they can realistically pull fans in from.  

    Also, using transit makes for more drinking, which makes for a louder and more energetic experience.  

    not to mention cash sales of alcohol will likely increase.

    you can't lose by moving to lebreton.
    this isn't a half concocted plan from the org. there's lots of market analysis and potential revenue increase that i'm sure they did their homework on. this isn't a gamble and they will make the stadium much more accessible. just being on the border from hull(gatineau now i guess) will directly link the arena to all parts of gatineau. a section of the fan base that the team is well aware as being a huge hockey market. might actually go a long way into converting that regions habs fans into sens fans. or at least their children.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by LeCaptain on Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:16 pm

    So who votes on the bidding?

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