Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

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    TheAvatar
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by TheAvatar on Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:17 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    TheAvatar wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:I'm guessing the price is around 1/2 a BILL US.

    That would be my guess.  The fact that the team is moving downtown really increases the value....


    Make it 3/4 then. It's only money.

    yeah, gotta be more then 1/2B.  it'll cost $175M  just to clean up the site (haul away dirt)

    I thought we were talking about the value of the Sens..?

    That's right.

    Oh. My bad. I think Forbes evaluated the franchise at $380M. I'm thinking if someone was to offer old 'Gene $550-600M he'd fade into the sunset ... Smile

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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:34 pm

    wprager wrote:
    TheAvatar wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:I'm guessing the price is around 1/2 a BILL US.

    That would be my guess.  The fact that the team is moving downtown really increases the value....


    Make it 3/4 then. It's only money.

    yeah, gotta be more then 1/2B.  it'll cost $175M  just to clean up the site (haul away dirt)

    Well the NCC was claiming it would take $300M to clean it up, so whatever the price they want Melnyk has to ask them to drop it by $300M since they'll be doing the cleanup.

    It's ridiculous to talk about "market value" when it's been an eyesore and an industrial dump for several decades, and when they finally opened it up to bids only two parties showed interest.  That is the market right there.  And the value should be zero, since they will reap millions in taxes and tourism.
    I think you have to look at the magnitude of the project. Not every entrepreneurial group can put together such bids. Also you have to realize that the arena is key to development and that drives away people.

    Personally I would walk away from any investor group that involves guy laliberté. That guy is dodgy. His cirque du soleil empire has taken a major dive after 2008 and is very volatile to fluctuations in the economy. If this is a ploy to wrestle the hockey team away from Melnyk then I would be worried of the cash flows he'd want to invest in times of economic hardship.
    Nope.

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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by wprager on Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:16 am

    So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by tim1_2 on Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:28 am

    wprager wrote:So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.

    This is impossible. The NCC or the the City can't possibly go forth with the DevCorp bid under the assumption that the Sens and them will just be able to work something out. Makes. Zero. Sense. Does. Not. Compute.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by wprager on Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:53 am

    tim1_2 wrote:
    wprager wrote:So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.

    This is impossible.  The NCC or the the City can't possibly go forth with the DevCorp bid under the assumption that the Sens and them will just be able to work something out.  Makes.  Zero.  Sense.  Does.  Not.  Compute.

    As I understand it the location of the arena is not the same in the two proposals. The Sens' bid has the arena half-way between the two LRT lines. Makes sense. Not sure about the other one, but I thought it was actually in the "optional" land. I should really look for a site map.


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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:58 am

    tim1_2 wrote:
    wprager wrote:So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.

    This is impossible.  The NCC or the the City can't possibly go forth with the DevCorp bid under the assumption that the Sens and them will just be able to work something out.  Makes.  Zero.  Sense.  Does.  Not.  Compute.

    The NCC and Devcore might be on the same page in that neither cares about the rink a whole lot.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by TheAvatar on Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:08 am

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    wprager wrote:So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.

    This is impossible.  The NCC or the the City can't possibly go forth with the DevCorp bid under the assumption that the Sens and them will just be able to work something out.  Makes.  Zero.  Sense.  Does.  Not.  Compute.

    The NCC and Devcore might be on the same page in that neither cares about the rink a whole lot.

    Maybe we'll now refer to them as the Cornwall Senators ... plenty of room for a rink by the st-lawrence river Smile
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by tim1_2 on Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:10 am

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    wprager wrote:So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.

    This is impossible.  The NCC or the the City can't possibly go forth with the DevCorp bid under the assumption that the Sens and them will just be able to work something out.  Makes.  Zero.  Sense.  Does.  Not.  Compute.

    The NCC and Devcore might be on the same page in that neither cares about the rink a whole lot.

    Which is a scary thought. As much as I like having the CTC in my back-yard, there's no doubt that this move would be a boon for the franchise. It makes all kinds of sense, and the timelines align perfectly with when the CTC would require a major overhaul. So hopefully the value of the Sens to the city in general plays into the process and leads to an arena being constructed to house the Sens. This is time and the place to do it.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by TheAvatar on Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:15 am

    tim1_2 wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    wprager wrote:So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.

    This is impossible.  The NCC or the the City can't possibly go forth with the DevCorp bid under the assumption that the Sens and them will just be able to work something out.  Makes.  Zero.  Sense.  Does.  Not.  Compute.

    The NCC and Devcore might be on the same page in that neither cares about the rink a whole lot.

    Which is a scary thought.  As much as I like having the CTC in my back-yard, there's no doubt that this move would be a boon for the franchise.  It makes all kinds of sense, and the timelines align perfectly with when the CTC would require a major overhaul.  So hopefully the value of the Sens to the city in general plays into the process and leads to an arena being constructed to house the Sens.  This is time and the place to do it.  

    Based on historical data, it might just make too much sense for the NCC
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:29 am

    The huge thing about the development on le region flats is that why would Melnyk only want to build the arena when the main monetary draw from the whole project is likely to come from the rest of the project. The arena will be a huge draw for other facets but let's face it will be a huge cost. I, sure they'd let Melnyk for over the cost of the arena. That's handing him over the worst part of the bill.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by TheAvatar on Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:09 pm

    Yeah but that's another asset (he'll need government help) that he can mortgage, again, again and again.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:22 pm

    I'm actually getting sick of hearing melnyk talk about the budget of the team and why we can't go out and get effective players. It's all pandering to scare the public into thinking the sens can't be competitive if illumination lebreton does not happen.

    What would really piss me off is if now he's not willing to spend any extra money because he wants to convince the public that he can't. Just doesn't smell right.

    Yeah I'm still pretty worried from Karlsson's comments

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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by DirtyDave on Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:45 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:LRT doesn't serve the whole city.

    Anyway, here's more on the Sens bid:

    http://illuminationlebreton.ca/
    You lost me on transit options.   LRT goes to both ends of the area.  The western end is where Melnyk's arena will go and that is where LRT and O-Train meet.

    There is no LRT in the West.  Whose Koolaid have you been drinking?

    LRt is going to Westboro

    LOL you think that's West?  

    We're not talking Kanata here. Nobody cares about Kanata.

    Like I keep saying, that's where a lot of your season ticket holders live now.  My brother in law has been a season ticket holder for the last 20 years or longer.  He didn't renew this year because he's finding it a huge commitment in time just to go from Beaverbrook to the CTC.  Meanwhile the couch at home is very comfy and the HD broadcast is great (and just wait till they have 4K).  A lot of the ticket holders, like him, are getting older and their kids aren't taking over the tickets, either.  This move will just accelerate their decision.  

    Look, I'm not saying the Sens are doomed if they move, not at all.  Just saying that transportation *will be* an issue because a lot of people will still want to come by car, because mass transit simply is not an option.  It's not like Ottawa downtown core has a lot of people -- most live out in Nepean/Barrhaven, Orleanse/Rockland and Kanata.  Sure, you'll get some new season ticket holders from Westboro, just not sure how many of those are hockey consumers to begin.  Guess we'll see.  I suppose if I really wanted I could drive to Barrhaven and take the train.  Actually, I'm probably moving to Barrhaven in the next 4-5 years anyway.

    Transportation system for red blacks games works well.

    I'm kind of surprised wants to move downtown. He'll be losing a ton of revenue related to parking at CTC. I'm not even joking here.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by wprager on Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:48 pm

    http://lebretonreimagined.ca

    Can any one explain to me the bilingual (sort-of) aspect of their presentation? I know enough French to see that the English parts did not cover everything that was spoken in French. While French being prominent may be a law in Quebec, we are not in Quebec. I have a problem with bilingual presentations in general because they double the time it takes. However in a video where the talking rarely needs to be wall-to-wall they easily had the time to have everything narrated in both official languages. Alternatively they could have had two videos -- one in each language. What I find very odd is that they chose to do this approach where it felt like a 80/20 split.


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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by DirtyDave on Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:52 pm

    Michallica wrote:I'm actually getting sick of hearing melnyk talk about the budget of the team and why we can't go out and get effective players.  It's all pandering to scare the public into thinking the sens can't be competitive if illumination lebreton does not happen.  

    What would really piss me off is if now he's not willing to spend any extra money because he wants to convince the public that he can't.  Just doesn't smell right.  

    Yeah I'm still pretty worried from Karlsson's comments

    Every notice that he mentions the "senators" lose money. This doesn't refer to capital tickets or CTC.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by tim1_2 on Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:06 pm

    wprager wrote:http://lebretonreimagined.ca

    Can any one explain to me the bilingual (sort-of) aspect of their presentation?  I know enough French to see that the English parts did not cover everything that was spoken in French.  While French being prominent may be a law in Quebec, we are not in Quebec.  I have a problem with bilingual presentations in general because they double the time it takes.  However in a video where the talking rarely needs to be wall-to-wall they easily had the time to have everything narrated in both official languages.  Alternatively they could have had two videos -- one in each language.  What I find very odd is that they chose to do this approach where it felt like a 80/20 split.

    Yeah it's dumb. You have to translate everything 100% or just have two separate presentations.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by wprager on Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:09 pm

    In case anyone (like me) does not know the history of LeBreton Flats:
    http://www.pastottawa.com/quartier/lebreton/

    The area was decimated in the Great Fire of 1900. It was a working class and light industrial area back then.

    60 years later (1962, to be exact) the NCC expropriated the area and demolished all buildings in order to make room for some grandiose project. Not sure who they expropriated if from, or whether there was any compensation given.

    After the expropriation it just sat there for 50 years collecting dust. The main reason given was the amount of soil contamination present and the cost to rehabilitate it. Then in 2012 they finally spent $5M (2% of their *annual* budget) to scrape off the top layer. Why they waited so long when it was such a small fraction of their budget? A better question might be how the Diddle do they have/deserve a budget of of a *QUARTER BILLION DOLLARS*???! Anyhow, back in the early days there was no concept/awareness of soil contamination so, really, they had no good reason as to why they sat on this site for so long without doing anything.

    Fascinating reading.


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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:57 pm

    TheAvatar wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    wprager wrote:So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.

    This is impossible.  The NCC or the the City can't possibly go forth with the DevCorp bid under the assumption that the Sens and them will just be able to work something out.  Makes.  Zero.  Sense.  Does.  Not.  Compute.

    The NCC and Devcore might be on the same page in that neither cares about the rink a whole lot.

    Maybe we'll now refer to them as the Cornwall Senators ... plenty  of room for a rink by the st-lawrence river Smile

    If I won Powerball the shovels would already be in the ground and the competition would be on for the title of "Official Pizza of the Cornwall Senators."

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