Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

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    tim1_2
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by tim1_2 on Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:06 pm

    wprager wrote:http://lebretonreimagined.ca

    Can any one explain to me the bilingual (sort-of) aspect of their presentation?  I know enough French to see that the English parts did not cover everything that was spoken in French.  While French being prominent may be a law in Quebec, we are not in Quebec.  I have a problem with bilingual presentations in general because they double the time it takes.  However in a video where the talking rarely needs to be wall-to-wall they easily had the time to have everything narrated in both official languages.  Alternatively they could have had two videos -- one in each language.  What I find very odd is that they chose to do this approach where it felt like a 80/20 split.

    Yeah it's dumb. You have to translate everything 100% or just have two separate presentations.

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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by wprager on Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:09 pm

    In case anyone (like me) does not know the history of LeBreton Flats:
    http://www.pastottawa.com/quartier/lebreton/

    The area was decimated in the Great Fire of 1900. It was a working class and light industrial area back then.

    60 years later (1962, to be exact) the NCC expropriated the area and demolished all buildings in order to make room for some grandiose project. Not sure who they expropriated if from, or whether there was any compensation given.

    After the expropriation it just sat there for 50 years collecting dust. The main reason given was the amount of soil contamination present and the cost to rehabilitate it. Then in 2012 they finally spent $5M (2% of their *annual* budget) to scrape off the top layer. Why they waited so long when it was such a small fraction of their budget? A better question might be how the Diddle do they have/deserve a budget of of a *QUARTER BILLION DOLLARS*???! Anyhow, back in the early days there was no concept/awareness of soil contamination so, really, they had no good reason as to why they sat on this site for so long without doing anything.

    Fascinating reading.

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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:57 pm

    TheAvatar wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    wprager wrote:So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.

    This is impossible.  The NCC or the the City can't possibly go forth with the DevCorp bid under the assumption that the Sens and them will just be able to work something out.  Makes.  Zero.  Sense.  Does.  Not.  Compute.

    The NCC and Devcore might be on the same page in that neither cares about the rink a whole lot.

    Maybe we'll now refer to them as the Cornwall Senators ... plenty  of room for a rink by the st-lawrence river Smile

    If I won Powerball the shovels would already be in the ground and the competition would be on for the title of "Official Pizza of the Cornwall Senators."
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by TheAvatar on Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:08 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    TheAvatar wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    wprager wrote:So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.

    This is impossible.  The NCC or the the City can't possibly go forth with the DevCorp bid under the assumption that the Sens and them will just be able to work something out.  Makes.  Zero.  Sense.  Does.  Not.  Compute.

    The NCC and Devcore might be on the same page in that neither cares about the rink a whole lot.

    Maybe we'll now refer to them as the Cornwall Senators ... plenty  of room for a rink by the st-lawrence river Smile

    If I won Powerball the shovels would already be in the ground and the competition would be on for the title of "Official Pizza of the Cornwall Senators."

    Unfortunate missed opportunity Sad
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:13 pm

    TheAvatar wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    TheAvatar wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    wprager wrote:So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.

    This is impossible.  The NCC or the the City can't possibly go forth with the DevCorp bid under the assumption that the Sens and them will just be able to work something out.  Makes.  Zero.  Sense.  Does.  Not.  Compute.

    The NCC and Devcore might be on the same page in that neither cares about the rink a whole lot.

    Maybe we'll now refer to them as the Cornwall Senators ... plenty  of room for a rink by the st-lawrence river Smile

    If I won Powerball the shovels would already be in the ground and the competition would be on for the title of "Official Pizza of the Cornwall Senators."

    Unfortunate missed opportunity Sad

    Meh. Dung happens.

    Anyone else want Melnyk to lose the bid as a sort of comeuppance for the whole Marshy thing?
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Ev on Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:46 pm

    How can anyone take dev core seriously when they put the molson branding on their brewseum without the permission of molson? Who does that?
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:01 pm

    DirtyDave wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:LRT doesn't serve the whole city.

    Anyway, here's more on the Sens bid:

    http://illuminationlebreton.ca/
    You lost me on transit options.   LRT goes to both ends of the area.  The western end is where Melnyk's arena will go and that is where LRT and O-Train meet.

    There is no LRT in the West.  Whose Koolaid have you been drinking?

    LRt is going to Westboro

    LOL you think that's West?  

    We're not talking Kanata here. Nobody cares about Kanata.

    Like I keep saying, that's where a lot of your season ticket holders live now.  My brother in law has been a season ticket holder for the last 20 years or longer.  He didn't renew this year because he's finding it a huge commitment in time just to go from Beaverbrook to the CTC.  Meanwhile the couch at home is very comfy and the HD broadcast is great (and just wait till they have 4K).  A lot of the ticket holders, like him, are getting older and their kids aren't taking over the tickets, either.  This move will just accelerate their decision.  

    Look, I'm not saying the Sens are doomed if they move, not at all.  Just saying that transportation *will be* an issue because a lot of people will still want to come by car, because mass transit simply is not an option.  It's not like Ottawa downtown core has a lot of people -- most live out in Nepean/Barrhaven, Orleanse/Rockland and Kanata.  Sure, you'll get some new season ticket holders from Westboro, just not sure how many of those are hockey consumers to begin.  Guess we'll see.  I suppose if I really wanted I could drive to Barrhaven and take the train.  Actually, I'm probably moving to Barrhaven in the next 4-5 years anyway.

    Transportation system for red blacks games works well.

    I'm kind of surprised wants to move downtown. He'll be losing a ton of revenue related to parking at CTC. I'm not even joking here.
    Prking for Sens games probably nets him about 800K a year after expenses.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:14 pm

    Ev wrote:How can anyone take dev core seriously when they put the molson branding on their brewseum without the permission of molson? Who does that?

    Funny because Melnyk was supposed to be the nickel and dime bidder up against these financial heavy-hitters. Laugh1

    On a lesser note, they were also promoting a Farm Boy but they just have an "offer in on the site." And Ripley's are "aware of the project." Pie in the sky.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by tim1_2 on Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:39 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    Ev wrote:How can anyone take dev core seriously when they put the molson branding on their brewseum without the permission of molson? Who does that?

    Funny because Melnyk was supposed to be the nickel and dime bidder up against these financial heavy-hitters. Laugh1

    On a lesser note, they were also promoting a Farm Boy but they just have an "offer in on the site." And Ripley's are "aware of the project." Pie in the sky.

    Whoever compared it to Niagara Falls was pretty much bang on. Ripleys is a joke and indoor skydiving is dumb. Glad to hear the rest of their proposal is nonsense in addition to not having a team.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Cap'n Clutch on Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:28 am

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    TheAvatar wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    TheAvatar wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    wprager wrote:So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.

    This is impossible.  The NCC or the the City can't possibly go forth with the DevCorp bid under the assumption that the Sens and them will just be able to work something out.  Makes.  Zero.  Sense.  Does.  Not.  Compute.

    The NCC and Devcore might be on the same page in that neither cares about the rink a whole lot.

    Maybe we'll now refer to them as the Cornwall Senators ... plenty  of room for a rink by the st-lawrence river Smile

    If I won Powerball the shovels would already be in the ground and the competition would be on for the title of "Official Pizza of the Cornwall Senators."

    Unfortunate missed opportunity Sad

    Meh. Dung happens.

    Anyone else want Melnyk to lose the bid as a sort of comeuppance for the whole Marshy thing?

    You know we all do I'm friend. Just like the casino. It's all part of the friends of Marshy plan.


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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:41 am

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    TheAvatar wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    TheAvatar wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    wprager wrote:So the DevCorp group said that if they win the bid they are willing to discuss terms with the Senators about letting them build/own the arena.

    This is impossible.  The NCC or the the City can't possibly go forth with the DevCorp bid under the assumption that the Sens and them will just be able to work something out.  Makes.  Zero.  Sense.  Does.  Not.  Compute.

    The NCC and Devcore might be on the same page in that neither cares about the rink a whole lot.

    Maybe we'll now refer to them as the Cornwall Senators ... plenty  of room for a rink by the st-lawrence river Smile

    If I won Powerball the shovels would already be in the ground and the competition would be on for the title of "Official Pizza of the Cornwall Senators."

    Unfortunate missed opportunity Sad

    Meh. Dung happens.

    Anyone else want Melnyk to lose the bid as a sort of comeuppance for the whole Marshy thing?

    You know we all do I'm friend.  Just like the casino. It's all part of the friends of Marshy plan.

    The power and influence of Marshy will win the day.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by tim1_2 on Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:21 am

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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:44 pm


    I'm all for it, just don't see melnyk giving up the reigns that easily.  Plus it would appear the NHL is on Melnyk's side as well.  

    Just for Dung and giggles, if we take the current value of the senators (~400M), plus how much expansion franchise fees are worth (~500M), and defiance of melnyk to entertain the idea of selling, how much would devcore have to offer to get NHL/Melnyk's attention?
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:05 pm

    Michallica wrote:

    I'm all for it, just don't see melnyk giving up the reigns that easily.  Plus it would appear the NHL is on Melnyk's side as well.  

    Just for Dung and giggles, if we take the current value of the senators (~400M), plus how much expansion franchise fees are worth (~500M), and defiance of melnyk to entertain the idea of selling, how much would devcore have to offer to get NHL/Melnyk's attention?
    I think it depends on if it wins the bid or not. If it doesn't then good luck. I guess they could buy the sens before the decision is made and Melnyk could pull his bid off the table. IMO I would say the ballpark number is over 500 mill. You have to think that the arena in kanata is part of that package and if a expansion fee is valued at half a billion than buying the sens and all that comes with it( in melnyk's view) is higher than a new franchise.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by tim1_2 on Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:17 pm

    I think that everything involving the sale of the Sens would have to be complete before the NCC and the city vote on the Lebreton proposals in March. There would need to be some assurance that if Devcore buys the Sens this month, that The Euge yanks his bid off the table for Lebreton...and I'm not sure how the NCC and city will like having their hand forced with only one bidder. I dunno...the whole thing is weird.

    Also, The Euge has a pretty massive ego, so it's gonna take a lot of hundreds of millions of dollars to make him go back on his words to "Never sell the team." I would think the price tag would need to end up being between $600M and $700M for the team + the CTC. I just don't see that all happening this month.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:42 pm

    No for sure, I don't envision Euge selling unless his bid goes tits up or NCC chooses the other bid.

    I do think devcore will take away a big chunk of Euge's business even if melnyk decides not to sell and keep the team in Kanata. I don't think there's anything preventing artists from performing in downtown as opposed to CTC. Bigger part of it, I don't think devcore would be handcuffed to use capital tickets, they could just go to ticketmaster and that takes away a significant earning from the Euge.

    I agree, it would take about $600M to get the Euge's attention. If someone were to offer $750M, I think melnyk would sell. That includes CTC, the team, and capital tickets.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:13 pm

    Michallica wrote:No for sure, I don't envision Euge selling unless his bid goes tits up or NCC chooses the other bid.  

    I do think devcore will take away a big chunk of Euge's business even if melnyk decides not to sell and keep the team in Kanata.  I don't think there's anything preventing artists from performing in downtown as opposed to CTC.  Bigger part of it, I don't think devcore would be handcuffed to use capital tickets, they could just go to ticketmaster and that takes away a significant earning from the Euge.  

    I agree, it would take about $600M to get the Euge's attention.  If someone were to offer $750M, I think melnyk would sell.  That includes CTC, the team, and capital tickets.
    Well that's it. If Eugene loses the bid then they can probably buy the team for less than 500K so it's a weird game of chicken. I'm not even sure if Melnyk can follow through with such an elaborate project that was proposed for Lebreton flats. I imagine he could probably seek co-investors if worst came to worst.

    It will all really depends on who decides wins the bid. Melnyk would be furious not to win and might hold his ground on the sens on an asking price if he was asked to sell. And really, what could the other proposal do? They might have to meet his price anyways. I don't see why Melnyk is holding onto the team apart from selling it at a high price. It's not lIke he can really afford to run it anymore. He has to be conscious of that by now.
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    Re: Lebreton Flats Redevelopment

    Post by tim1_2 on Tue Feb 02, 2016 2:19 pm

    I think that if, for some reason, the Devcore bid is chosen with the Sens still owned by Eugene, than they just won't end up building an arena. You can't justify building an arena downtown without a pro sports team to put in it.

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