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Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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SeawaySensFan


Franchise Player
Franchise Player
SpezDispensed wrote:
tim1_2 wrote:I disagree that much of the blame here falls on the coach.  It's an incredibly young roster that suffered a critical injury to the only really good centre we have.  Cameron could only do so much with the lineup he had.

There's no semblance of a system at all.  Some nights they forecheck like demons, other nights they try fancy plays into the zone.  It's very frustrating to watch.  Maybe it's not all on Cameron, but someone has to pay when a system (or lack of) breaks down completely.

Safe to say there is a system and they follow it when they feel like it.

Trotz came in to Washington and laid down the law by scratching Ovechkin. Whoever the ringleader(s) is(are) here that has(have) the team getting away from coaches orders needs a message sent the same way.

PTFlea


Co-Founder
Co-Founder
SeawaySensFan wrote:
SpezDispensed wrote:
tim1_2 wrote:I disagree that much of the blame here falls on the coach.  It's an incredibly young roster that suffered a critical injury to the only really good centre we have.  Cameron could only do so much with the lineup he had.

There's no semblance of a system at all.  Some nights they forecheck like demons, other nights they try fancy plays into the zone.  It's very frustrating to watch.  Maybe it's not all on Cameron, but someone has to pay when a system (or lack of) breaks down completely.

Safe to say there is a system and they follow it when they feel like it.

Trotz came in to Washington and laid down the law by scratching Ovechkin. Whoever the ringleader(s) is(are) here that has(have) the team getting away from coaches orders needs a message sent the same way.

Who could possible be a ringleader here other than maybe Ryan and Karlsson? I mean...who...could be?

SensHulk


All-Star
All-Star
It's Karlsson. Didn't we hear something from Guillame Latendresse where Karlsson outright refused to follow Paul Maclean's orders? Something to that extent.

Anyways, right or wrong, Karlsson is the man and u need a coach that gets the best out of him. But how many coaches does Karlsson need before he gets labelled a 'coach killer' by some fans?

I like what Melnyk said today, it was needed. This has been a colossal failure, and everyone has to be accountable.

However, his comment about playing O'Connor on opening night, calling it a 'stupid' decision.....you know hindsight is 20/20, and at the time it was a low risk move. We scored one goal that game and lost 3-1, not sure starting O'connor was the reason for the loss. That's embarrassing to hear our owner speak such a way and pretty disrespectful to Cameron.

tim1_2

tim1_2
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
SpezDispensed wrote:
SeawaySensFan wrote:
SpezDispensed wrote:
tim1_2 wrote:I disagree that much of the blame here falls on the coach.  It's an incredibly young roster that suffered a critical injury to the only really good centre we have.  Cameron could only do so much with the lineup he had.

There's no semblance of a system at all.  Some nights they forecheck like demons, other nights they try fancy plays into the zone.  It's very frustrating to watch.  Maybe it's not all on Cameron, but someone has to pay when a system (or lack of) breaks down completely.

Safe to say there is a system and they follow it when they feel like it.

Trotz came in to Washington and laid down the law by scratching Ovechkin. Whoever the ringleader(s) is(are) here that has(have) the team getting away from coaches orders needs a message sent the same way.

Who could possible be a ringleader here other than maybe Ryan and Karlsson?  I mean...who...could be?

Yeah, Karlsson is likely part of the problem in that regard. But then maybe not, since Cameron hasn't shown even a hint of any discipline towards our Young Captain. His ice time hasn't taken a hit. It might just be a case of not enough veteran leadership. Clark MacArthur and Phillips likely help in this regard if they were on the team this year.

spader

spader
All-Star
All-Star
Flo The Action wrote:It's a bit contradictory at moments. He says we don't need to throw money at the team yet he says we need to acquire a couple of veteran players to bring leadership. Interesting to see how that gets done.

I dunno. Melnyk is always lip service. I don't trust what ever he says. I think everyone and their dog knows that some level of change is coming to the org so those are easy statements.

I think he was basically just saying that simply throwing money at the problem won't help, that there has to be a plan. You can add salary in a way that isn't just throwing money at the problem.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
Michallica wrote:It's Karlsson.  Didn't we hear something from Guillame Latendresse where Karlsson outright refused to follow Paul Maclean's orders?  Something to that extent.

Anyways, right or wrong, Karlsson is the man and u need a coach that gets the best out of him.  But how many coaches does Karlsson need before he gets labelled a 'coach killer' by some fans?

I like what Melnyk said today, it was needed.  This has been a colossal failure, and everyone has to be accountable.  

However, his comment about playing O'Connor on opening night, calling it a 'stupid' decision.....you know hindsight is 20/20, and at the time it was a low risk move. We scored one goal that game and lost 3-1, not sure starting O'connor was the reason for the loss.  That's embarrassing to hear our owner speak such a way and pretty disrespectful to Cameron.

I don't recall the circumstances as to why he played O'Connor, but there had to be a reason. Injuries I assume.

Hoags

Hoags
All-Star
All-Star
Team was fine under MacLean when we had Alfie and Gonchar providing the veternal leadership we needed. Remember how they stunk at the start of the season, had a closed door player meeting and they totally improved and stuck to the system after that?

After those two left we had no credible leadership in that room. The two Chris's are NOT it. Alfie was the last person to command respect in that room.

Combined with how they planned on Wiercioch and Cowen being our 2nd pairing(after EK and Methot) you can see the crappy defense coaches had to work with. We've only "done well" when the goalie stands on his head while juggling flaming torches in the crease.

SensHulk

SensHulk
All-Star
All-Star
Yeah Hammond was injured and Anderson played in toronto the previous night. Would have been 3 games in 4 nights for andy had he played. So alternatives were to play andy again or play driedger since he has some more pro experience.

It might have been the wrong move, but I don't know if it was stupid. I do remember one bad goal O'connor allowed but that was it. He can't score for his team though.

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
SpezDispensed wrote:
Flo The Action wrote:It's a bit contradictory at moments. He says we don't need to throw money at the team yet he says we need to acquire a couple of veteran players to bring leadership. Interesting to see how that gets done.

I dunno. Melnyk is always lip service. I don't trust what ever he says. I think everyone and their dog knows that some level of change is coming to the org so those are easy statements.

I think he knows what we know - and that's that this team has precious little veteran leadership - especially at forward.  Why do you think I want to get Statsny so badly?  We need someone to come in who's been through it before - a Phaneuf at forward.  Eriksson is a pipe dream IMO, I'd sign with a contender if I could and I was him.  So...Ladd?  I doubt he'll sign here, so he needs a GM to come in here and look for another desperate team like Toronto and make a move for a veteran forward and one veteran D-man for the third pairing (Polak would be nice).

Cameron LOST it this year...like MacLean before him, so it's time for a veteran coach too.  Murray bet on ZBad and Turris and lost the bet, and he'll have to move on because of it.

He also bet on Cowen/Wiercioch and lost even worse.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
Michallica wrote:It's Karlsson.  Didn't we hear something from Guillame Latendresse where Karlsson outright refused to follow Paul Maclean's orders?  Something to that extent.

Anyways, right or wrong, Karlsson is the man and u need a coach that gets the best out of him.  But how many coaches does Karlsson need before he gets labelled a 'coach killer' by some fans?

I like what Melnyk said today, it was needed.  This has been a colossal failure, and everyone has to be accountable.  

However, his comment about playing O'Connor on opening night, calling it a 'stupid' decision.....you know hindsight is 20/20, and at the time it was a low risk move. We scored one goal that game and lost 3-1, not sure starting O'connor was the reason for the loss.  That's embarrassing to hear our owner speak such a way and pretty disrespectful to Cameron.

With the 'Gregger' behind them the Pesky Sens would have been playing with more swagger.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
SpezDispensed wrote:
Michallica wrote:It's Karlsson.  Didn't we hear something from Guillame Latendresse where Karlsson outright refused to follow Paul Maclean's orders?  Something to that extent.

Anyways, right or wrong, Karlsson is the man and u need a coach that gets the best out of him.  But how many coaches does Karlsson need before he gets labelled a 'coach killer' by some fans?

I like what Melnyk said today, it was needed.  This has been a colossal failure, and everyone has to be accountable.  

However, his comment about playing O'Connor on opening night, calling it a 'stupid' decision.....you know hindsight is 20/20, and at the time it was a low risk move. We scored one goal that game and lost 3-1, not sure starting O'connor was the reason for the loss.  That's embarrassing to hear our owner speak such a way and pretty disrespectful to Cameron.

I don't recall the circumstances as to why he played O'Connor, but there had to be a reason.  Injuries I assume.

Hammond was injured in camp and O'Connor was the backup. But this was game 3 of the season and third game in 4 nights. All against Division opponents. No sens not to play your #1 3 games in for your home opener.

Melnyk is 100% correct that it was a dumb move, but not sure if that's on Cameron or Wamsley. It's a moot point since there is no guarantee we would have won anyway, or if it had any bearing on the outcome of the season. But for Melnyk to say it this bluntly, I just don't see how Cameron survives that. Unless he meant Wamsley.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

SensHulk

SensHulk
All-Star
All-Star
I will say this, the comments today should dispel all that BS about how Melnyk is buddies with cameron and won't fire him and blah blah blah

spader

spader
All-Star
All-Star
Michallica wrote:I will say this, the comments today should dispel all that BS about how Melnyk is buddies with cameron and won't fire him and blah blah blah  

Didn't EM say in the past that Murray could stay in his position as long as he liked? scratch

SensHulk

SensHulk
All-Star
All-Star
spader wrote:
Michallica wrote:I will say this, the comments today should dispel all that BS about how Melnyk is buddies with cameron and won't fire him and blah blah blah  

Didn't EM say in the past that Murray could stay in his position as long as he liked? scratch

He did....likely out of respect. Man has cancer and his contract is up as well I believe. Even if Murray wants to come back, I'm pretty sure he will be nudged into stepping down. It's time unfortunately.

What I'd be interested in seeing is if we go for an outside hire. That might be too big of a change. EM spoke about 'grooming' ppl for the GM role and that to me means Dorion/Alfie as the GM/AGM tandem. Appointing Alfie as GM right away would be the wrong move IMO.

DefenceWinsChampionships


Veteran
Veteran
Is Marc Crawford the solution? Enough is enough bringing in unproven coaches. Crawford is hungry, Sens need an experienced coach. Jason Smith also has to go. We haven't had a good defenceman come up through the system in quite some time. Maybe Luke should be promoted to D coach or Assistant?

As for GM, I believe Murray sees the writing on the wall. Since he has taken over Ottawa has regressed significanlty. Even looking at the farm team, there isn't much left in the cupboards anymore. I barely recognize any names in Bingo since the Phaneuf/Rochester trades. At this point they should be looking at a GM who isn't afraid to move on from players if it means trading away or not signing fan favourites or people he drafted/acquired. I am going to be so disappointed when Murray re-signs Chiasson. Absolutely livid for that matter.

I also agree with Melnyk re: salary. A lot of money was being wasted this season on Phillips, Michalek, Greening, Wiercioch, Cowen, Chiasson and with MacArthur hurt. That's what, close to $20M right there? This comes down to poor asset management and aside from MacArthur's injury should fall squarely on Murray's shoulders. I completely agree that Melnyk has reason to be upset. There is no reason you couldn't ice a quality team for $68M. I am not saying the model I proposed is perfect but it shows it is attainable.

Line 1: $20M, Line 2: $12M, Line 3: $7M, Line 4: $3M
D1-2: $12M, D3-4: $6M, D5-6: $3M
G: $5M

DefenceWinsChampionships


Veteran
Veteran
DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Is Marc Crawford the solution? Enough is enough bringing in unproven coaches. Crawford is hungry, Sens need an experienced coach. Jason Smith also has to go. We haven't had a good defenceman come up through the system in quite some time. Maybe Luke should be promoted to D coach or Assistant?

As for GM, I believe Murray sees the writing on the wall. Since he has taken over Ottawa has regressed significanlty. Even looking at the farm team, there isn't much left in the cupboards anymore. I barely recognize any names in Bingo since the Phaneuf/Rochester trades. At this point they should be looking at a GM who isn't afraid to move on from players if it means trading away or not signing fan favourites or people he drafted/acquired. I am going to be so disappointed when Murray re-signs Chiasson. Absolutely livid for that matter.

I also agree with Melnyk re: salary. A lot of money was being wasted this season on Phillips, Michalek, Greening, Wiercioch, Cowen, Chiasson and with MacArthur hurt. That's what, close to $20M right there? This comes down to poor asset management and aside from MacArthur's injury should fall squarely on Murray's shoulders. I completely agree that Melnyk has reason to be upset. There is no reason you couldn't ice a quality team for $68M. I am not saying the model I proposed is perfect but it shows it is attainable.

Line 1: $20M, Line 2: $12M, Line 3: $7M, Line 4: $3M
D1-2: $12M, D3-4: $6M, D5-6: $3M
G: $5M


It is all about asset management and I think Murray has failed at that significantly having traded Bishop and Spezza for nothing, being inactive in free agency, and re-signing regressing players to ludicrous deals. I get that vet leadership is needed but at some point you look at bringing in leaders who can still play.

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Why would anybody be livid if they re-signed Chiasson? He's fine as a fourth line RW and has actually been good for the last month. He costs nothing to re-sign either.

The cupboard shouldn't be judged by Bingo. Other than O'Connor, the team's best prospects are playing outside of the AHL: Wikstrand, White, Chabot, Gagne, Chlapik, Hogberg, Englund, etc.

Flo The Action

Flo The Action
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
no way is alfie ready to be a GM. and i highly doubt anyone but Dorion gets the position. it could mean cameron is out and i hope it is. what it does mean is that Melnyk viewed the financial report to the team this year in respect to the exchange rates he's having to pay and lost it. without the playoffs it's true, this team is not profitable. it's up to him and management to put a product on the ice that makes it profitable by reaching the post season. he might be getting that if he's talking about veteran leadership. he did elude to the fact that we have good young pieces that could be moved and he probably means hoffman.
so yeah, something is coming this summer for sure. should be interesting. personnel and players are likely to move around.
as for cameron i wouldn't say he's guaranteed to be moved out but if he good NHL coach becomes available then they could be firing him. i doubt they fire him without a replacement waiting in the wing.

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