GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

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    Ev
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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by Ev on Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:26 am

    I didn't realize we are 8th last in the league. Let's just tank if we don't have the magic of last year

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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:41 am

    tim1_2 wrote:Someone on the TSN 1200 called in the other day to say maybe it's time e for a new defense coach. If you look at Jason Smith's current track record, it's hard to say that he's doing a good job. How many of our dmen aren't living up to what is perceived as their potential?  Cowen, Wiercioch, and Ceci?  

    Good points. Maybe it's time for Luke to get the call from Bingo?


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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by Oglethorpe on Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:00 am

    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:The games are entertaining. Boycotting them doesn't nothing. They have four big injuries, people forget that?
    They were a middling team when healthy and a really bad team now.

    They just put up 5 goals. We just need to shore up defensively, and we won't right now because four of our best defensive players are currently injured.

    When healthy this team could win the division.
    We were terrible defensively when all that was missing was CMac. Bad hockey team and I'll stand by that. 1 playoff series win since the 07 SC final. Change of direction needed.
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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by Oglethorpe on Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:16 am

    4 of the next 7 are against teams below us in the standing. Picture might be much clearer in 2 weeks.
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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by Ev on Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:20 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:The games are entertaining. Boycotting them doesn't nothing. They have four big injuries, people forget that?
    They were a middling team when healthy and a really bad team now.

    They just put up 5 goals. We just need to shore up defensively, and we won't right now because four of our best defensive players are currently injured.

    When healthy this team could win the division.
    We were terrible defensively when all that was missing was CMac.  Bad hockey team and I'll stand by that.    1 playoff series win since the 07 SC final.   Change of direction needed.  

    Average is more like it. I don't think we're bad at all when healthy.

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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:01 am

    They made a good point on the radio yesterday. The talked about a five year rebuild and how the Sens made the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years. This would be year 5. So they overachieved in some years and underachieved in others. This likely set off the rebuild as bottom 10 finishes turned into bottom 15 finishes. It also led them to over value some of their players and put higher expectations on them.

    I've said it all season. Lazar should be in the minors or at least should have been last season. Same with Ceci and Cowen. I believe the Sens are rushing players in who can 'play' at the NHL level. We don't players who can 'play' at the NHL level, we want players who can 'excel' at the NHL level. You look at the Red Wings model, even the Leafs model now. Don't rush guys in - wait for them to develop. In Ottawa's case I believe they're rughing them in because they're on ELCs and are costing the team a lot less than signing a UFA.

    I hope they take their time with White and Chabot. Even Lindberg and Paul need more time to develop. Fact is next season Ottawa needs to spend. The goal should be to drop some contracts, get guys in who are hungry, and address their concerns on D.
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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by wprager on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:10 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:The games are entertaining. Boycotting them doesn't nothing. They have four big injuries, people forget that?
    They were a middling team when healthy and a really bad team now.

    What does that say about the Penguins. Other than another first round exit.


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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by wprager on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:13 am

    tim1_2 wrote:Someone on the TSN 1200 called in the other day to say maybe it's time e for a new defense coach. If you look at Jason Smith's current track record, it's hard to say that he's doing a good job. How many of our dmen aren't living up to what is perceived as their potential?  Cowen, Wiercioch, and Ceci?  

    Is he the one who assigns the D pairings (like Cowen-Boro being our top PK unit for a while) or decides that Boro on his off side is a better option than Wideman (to put it even more bluntly -- is a Cowen-Boro third pairing better than a Boro-Wideman?)

    Or does he just open the door when the D come back to the bench at the end of the shift?


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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:13 am

    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:The games are entertaining. Boycotting them doesn't nothing. They have four big injuries, people forget that?
    They were a middling team when healthy and a really bad team now.

    They just put up 5 goals. We just need to shore up defensively, and we won't right now because four of our best defensive players are currently injured.

    When healthy this team could win the division.
    We were terrible defensively when all that was missing was CMac.  Bad hockey team and I'll stand by that.    1 playoff series win since the 07 SC final.   Change of direction needed.  

    Average is more like it. I don't think we're bad at all when healthy.

    Average gets you fighting for 7-12th in the conference
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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by wprager on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:15 am

    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:The games are entertaining. Boycotting them doesn't nothing. They have four big injuries, people forget that?
    They were a middling team when healthy and a really bad team now.

    They just put up 5 goals. We just need to shore up defensively, and we won't right now because four of our best defensive players are currently injured.

    When healthy this team could win the division.

    I *so* hate the new NHL.com website. The old one you could check standings on a particular date. The new one you can only change the season. I wanted to check how far off the lead they were back before Turris got injured. Dammit!


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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by Oglethorpe on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:24 am

    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:The games are entertaining. Boycotting them doesn't nothing. They have four big injuries, people forget that?
    They were a middling team when healthy and a really bad team now.

    What does that say about the Penguins.  Other than another first round exit.
    It says they still beat us on a night where their goaltending was horrific.
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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by wprager on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:32 am

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:They made a good point on the radio yesterday. The talked about a five year rebuild and how the Sens made the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years. This would be year 5. So they overachieved in some years and underachieved in others. This likely set off the rebuild as bottom 10 finishes turned into bottom 15 finishes. It also led them to over value some of their players and put higher expectations on them.

    I've said it all season. Lazar should be in the minors or at least should have been last season. Same with Ceci and Cowen. I believe the Sens are rushing players in who can 'play' at the NHL level. We don't players who can 'play' at the NHL level, we want players who can 'excel' at the NHL level. You look at the Red Wings model, even the Leafs model now. Don't rush guys in - wait for them to develop. In Ottawa's case I believe they're rughing them in because they're on ELCs and are costing the team a lot less than signing a UFA.

    I hope they take their time with White and Chabot. Even Lindberg and Paul need more time to develop. Fact is next season Ottawa needs to spend. The goal should be to drop some contracts, get guys in who are hungry, and address their concerns on D.  

    Phillips: $2.5M
    Michalek: $4.0M (missed significant time and, really, has not contributed at a $4M level)
    MacArthur: $4.65M (he only played 4-5 games so we've been without him)
    Greening: $2.65M (only $1.7M on cap but we all know the real cap is the actual payroll)
    Cowen: $3.1M (healthy scratch a lot, sub-par most of the rest of the time)

    You take all those players off the roster and we are not a significantly different team, but a team with almost $16M more to spend.

    So all this BS about us being a budget team is just that. We could have a significantly better team at the same cap. Same for many other teams, but their internal budge allows them to cover up for GM mistakes. Also I still think Murray is too generous to "legacy" players. Michalek's contract was too much, too long, as was Phillips' and Greening's. At least Greening did not show any signs that he sucked or was injury prone or even on the decline. Can't explain the others. Throw Cowen on that pile, too, except he's nowhere near "legacy". Maybe just Murray refusing to accept that he made a mistake.


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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by wprager on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:34 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:The games are entertaining. Boycotting them doesn't nothing. They have four big injuries, people forget that?
    They were a middling team when healthy and a really bad team now.

    What does that say about the Penguins.  Other than another first round exit.
    It says they still beat us on a night where their goaltending was horrific.  

    They beat a horrible team whose goalie was having an off night, and it still took a bunch of PP goals and a hattrick from their Captain to win. By *one* goal. On a play that should have been called for tripping or interference.


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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by Ev on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:39 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:The games are entertaining. Boycotting them doesn't nothing. They have four big injuries, people forget that?
    They were a middling team when healthy and a really bad team now.

    What does that say about the Penguins.  Other than another first round exit.
    It says they still beat us on a night where their goaltending was horrific.  

    So was Anderson though.
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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by Ev on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:42 am

    wprager wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:They made a good point on the radio yesterday. The talked about a five year rebuild and how the Sens made the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years. This would be year 5. So they overachieved in some years and underachieved in others. This likely set off the rebuild as bottom 10 finishes turned into bottom 15 finishes. It also led them to over value some of their players and put higher expectations on them.

    I've said it all season. Lazar should be in the minors or at least should have been last season. Same with Ceci and Cowen. I believe the Sens are rushing players in who can 'play' at the NHL level. We don't players who can 'play' at the NHL level, we want players who can 'excel' at the NHL level. You look at the Red Wings model, even the Leafs model now. Don't rush guys in - wait for them to develop. In Ottawa's case I believe they're rughing them in because they're on ELCs and are costing the team a lot less than signing a UFA.

    I hope they take their time with White and Chabot. Even Lindberg and Paul need more time to develop. Fact is next season Ottawa needs to spend. The goal should be to drop some contracts, get guys in who are hungry, and address their concerns on D.  

    Phillips: $2.5M
    Michalek: $4.0M (missed significant time and, really, has not contributed at a $4M level)
    MacArthur: $4.65M (he only played 4-5 games so we've been without him)
    Greening: $2.65M (only $1.7M on cap but we all know the real cap is the actual payroll)
    Cowen: $3.1M (healthy scratch a lot, sub-par most of the rest of the time)

    You take all those players off the roster and we are not a significantly different team, but a team with almost $16M more to spend.

    So all this BS about us being a budget team is just that.  We could have a significantly better team at the same cap.  Same for many other teams, but their internal budge allows them to cover up for GM mistakes.  Also I still think Murray is too generous to "legacy" players.  Michalek's contract was too much, too long, as was Phillips' and Greening's.  At least Greening did not show any signs that he sucked or was injury prone or even on the decline.  Can't explain the others.  Throw Cowen on that pile, too, except he's nowhere near "legacy".  Maybe just Murray refusing to accept that he made a mistake.

    I am sick of people thinking Michalek isn't worth his contract. IMO he was the Sens most important player or close to it when healthy. He played every hard situation, all the hard minutes, and contributed at both ends of the ice. He's a solid veteran who knows how to play the game. Marc Methot makes $5 million for not doing much more (if any).
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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by wprager on Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:01 pm

    I'm not saying that Michalek is not worth his contract (he isn't, and that's not really open for debate -- we all said it was too much, too long for a player riddled with injuries) if he was healthy.

    Point is, he wasn't healthy, has missed significant time this year and the previous years (knees, concussion, broken fingers) and is nowhere near the player he was before his *second* torn ACL.

    My point was that his contribution to the team's success (both defensive and offensive) is nowhere near proportional to his salary. We've played without him more than one third of the games this season, and prior to his first injury he was *not* playing well at all.

    We could have had a much better player for $4M. This is hind-sight, of course, but I'm only trying to make a point that we could have a much better team with a lower cap hit, so we cannot continue to make excuses that we are not a good team because of the budget.

    Having a budget certainly puts constraints on you in that the GM cannot spend to make up for his mistakes. But as I said, the best way to kill a penalty is not to take one in the first place. Same goes for GMs.


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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by Ev on Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:15 pm

    wprager wrote:I'm not saying that Michalek is not worth his contract (he isn't, and that's not really open for debate -- we all said it was too much, too long for a player riddled with injuries) if he was healthy.  

    Point is, he wasn't healthy, has missed significant time this year and the previous years (knees, concussion, broken fingers) and is nowhere near the player he was before his *second* torn ACL.  

    My point was that his contribution to the team's success (both defensive and offensive) is nowhere near proportional to his salary.  We've played without him more than one third of the games this season, and prior to his first injury he was *not* playing well at all.  

    We could have had a much better player for $4M.  This is hind-sight, of course, but I'm only trying to make a point that we could have a much better team with a lower cap hit, so we cannot continue to make excuses that we are not a good team because of the budget.

    Having a budget certainly puts constraints on you in that the GM cannot spend to make up for his mistakes.  But as I said, the best way to kill a penalty is not to take one in the first place.  Same goes for GMs.

    Um, yeah it's open for debate. He IS worth his contract for the reasons I already stated. They would have walked away if he wasn't.

    No "we" all didn't say it was too long and too much.
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    Re: GAME DAY #51: Senators @ Penguins - 7:00 pm - Tuesday, Feb 2 2016

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:40 pm

    Liked the michalek signing the day it was done and still like him on the team. Just wish he could stay healthy, he would immediately stabilize the 3rd line and move up when necessary.  

    That game was a joke last night.  Let's not be fooled by the sens scoring 5 goals.  Fleury was not very good and the shots that went in were harmless for the most part.  Only the first two goals can I say were a result of hard work from the sens and both were because of mark stone.  ANd then stone gave the puck up to crosby for the hat trick and GWG Facepalm

    This getting outshot 2-1 business and not having a shot for more than 12 mins in a period is getting tiring and is reminiscent of 2010-11 season when they lost like 10 straight or something.

    The team is clearly waiting for some kind of change to take place....I actually would trade chabot for an edler type of player.  No joke.

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