Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:25 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:
    wprager wrote: There's absolutely nothing that they have shown all season that would suggest they could go on such a run.  


    This is what we said last season and then the impossible happened.  I'm not gonna write them off yet, but it is certainly a longshot to make the playoffs at this point, especially considering how well some of the teams are playing that are battling for those wildcard spots.  

    As for your other post about Hammond, I am going to refuse to discuss goaltending with you since you aren't happy unless the goalie gets a shutout, and even then you will likely say it was an "easy" shutout.  

    They're done and I think the players can sense it as well from post-game comments. They're well aware that the deficit is more or less 10 points once those games in hand are all used up.

    I know I know, last season was what it was. There's just no way it happens twice in a row. Sens are what they are: Mediocre. You can't expect a team with the worst PK in the league to make the playoffs. It just won't ever happen.

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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:40 pm

    I find it amusing that all this time we are debating Hoffman's character while he's shown that he continuously produces and has shown a good level of effort and all this came from supposedly Zib which is the one that may have all the flaws that are attributing to Hoff.

    It might be time to rethink those assumptions.

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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by tim1_2 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:48 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:if somebody wouldn't trade Hoffman for Drouin they are out of their minds. You'd get an equal talent at a much lesser cost
    Hoffman is a more talented goal scorer than Drouin.  Drouin may wind up getting higher point totals, but goal scoring is a talent that is hard to find.  Hoffman all day for me.

    What people have to keep in mind here is our ability to retain Hoffman. I've said all along that I think Hoffman is a "difficult" personality and may hold the arbitration award against the Sens until the end of time. His utilization by the coach is another potential issue (especially if he is off PP1 in favour of Phaneuf). If Murray believes that Hoffman is going to be very difficult to retain long-term, then trade him now when his value is very high (he's still a RFA after this season). If he takes another short-term contract, you can bet your Donkey he's heading for free agency, full speed ahead.
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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:48 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:if somebody wouldn't trade Hoffman for Drouin they are out of their minds. You'd get an equal talent at a much lesser cost
    Hoffman is a more talented goal scorer than Drouin.  Drouin may wind up getting higher point totals, but goal scoring is a talent that is hard to find.  Hoffman all day for me.

    What people have to keep in mind here is our ability to retain Hoffman.  I've said all along that I think Hoffman is a "difficult" personality and may hold the arbitration award against the Sens until the end of time.  His utilization by the coach is another potential issue (especially if he is off PP1 in favour of Phaneuf).  If Murray believes that Hoffman is going to be very difficult to retain long-term, then trade him now when his value is very high (he's still a RFA after this season).  If he takes another short-term contract, you can bet your Donkey he's heading for free agency, full speed ahead.

    yeah well that's an obvious one. although with hoffman it might be a case of showing him the money to make him happy. whatever they do i hope they figure it out soon. i'd be happy if BM signed him before the deadline.

    i don't know if i see a case of hoffman going to tampa though. unless Tampa is 100% sure they are loosing stamkos. and even then we lose a LW to add another LW who isn't as good yet? i'm not sure if that makes us any better.
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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:48 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:if somebody wouldn't trade Hoffman for Drouin they are out of their minds. You'd get an equal talent at a much lesser cost
    Hoffman is a more talented goal scorer than Drouin.  Drouin may wind up getting higher point totals, but goal scoring is a talent that is hard to find.  Hoffman all day for me.

    What people have to keep in mind here is our ability to retain Hoffman.  I've said all along that I think Hoffman is a "difficult" personality and may hold the arbitration award against the Sens until the end of time.  His utilization by the coach is another potential issue (especially if he is off PP1 in favour of Phaneuf).  If Murray believes that Hoffman is going to be very difficult to retain long-term, then trade him now when his value is very high (he's still a RFA after this season).  If he takes another short-term contract, you can bet your Donkey he's heading for free agency, full speed ahead.
    Either he signs for 4 or 5 years or he will be traded by the draft.
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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by tim1_2 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:58 pm

    So we agree we're in a tricky situation with Hoffman that could prevent us from getting "full value" for him on the trade market. So perhaps Hoffman for Drouin makes all kinds of sense, and perhaps TB is right in asking for more than just Hoffman.
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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:29 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:So we agree we're in a tricky situation with Hoffman that could prevent us from getting "full value" for him on the trade market.  So perhaps Hoffman for Drouin makes all kinds of sense, and perhaps TB is right in asking for more than just Hoffman.
    If Murray puts Hoffman up for trade after the season, he will be able to get a whole lot more than Drouin. It is all in perspective, be the seller rather than the bidder and you get better return.
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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:34 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:So we agree we're in a tricky situation with Hoffman that could prevent us from getting "full value" for him on the trade market.  So perhaps Hoffman for Drouin makes all kinds of sense, and perhaps TB is right in asking for more than just Hoffman.
    from all the dialogue happening these days they seem to be asking more for immediate futures as in good prospects than players that can play now. i doubt they are asking for hoffman but if they were, and asking for more. you can laugh in their face.
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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by tim1_2 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:53 pm

    Drouin is an asset under control for many years. Hoffman is an asset a couple years away from unrestricted free agency. Big difference.
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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:57 pm

    Trading Hoffman for Drouin would signal a perpetual rebuild/retool to me.  How do we ever expect to be cup contenders?

    "trade player X that we spent Z years and $$$ developing into a top player for another player Y who is super young and can be controlled so we can spend another Z amount of years developing into player X until we can trade him for another player Y"
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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by tim1_2 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:08 pm

    We're still a very young team with a big window to be competitive (ignoring the goaltending situation), so it wouldn't be crazy to bring in another 20 year old. Scenarios like the Drouin situation don't come along very often, so you have to consider it no matter where your team is at.

    I assume if Murray is going to trade The Hoff, he'll get shopped around a bit first to see what offers are out there...it would be tough to top the temptation of bringing in Drouin.
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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by wprager on Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:46 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:So we agree we're in a tricky situation with Hoffman that could prevent us from getting "full value" for him on the trade market.  So perhaps Hoffman for Drouin makes all kinds of sense, and perhaps TB is right in asking for more than just Hoffman.

    Hoffman is still RFA at the end of this contract. So even if we trade him we should get full value. When he hits UFA, assuming he scores 30+ this season and next, he'll be asking for a $6M x 6 or more.


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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by wprager on Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:48 pm

    Michallica wrote:Trading Hoffman for Drouin would signal a perpetual rebuild/retool to me.  How do we ever expect to be cup contenders?

    "trade player X that we spent Z years and $$$ developing into a top player for another player Y who is super young and can be controlled so we can spend another Z amount of years developing into player X until we can trade him for another player Y"

    Lather ... rinse ... repeat. Sounds like the old Expos.


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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by wprager on Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:56 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:We're still a very young team with a big window to be competitive (ignoring the goaltending situation), so it wouldn't be crazy to bring in another 20 year old.  Scenarios like the Drouin situation don't come along very often, so you have to consider it no matter where your team is at.

    I assume if Murray is going to trade The Hoff, he'll get shopped around a bit first to see what offers are out there...it would be tough to top the temptation of bringing in Drouin.

    Drouin could well be another Filatov. He has done absolutely nothing but pout.

    And we keep saying how young we are, but Karlsson is in his 8th season next year. In three years' time we will be wondering if he will re-sign here or go elsewhere. If, in three years, we haven't progressed to a point where we are a strong contender for the Cup, he may do The Alfie and "probably not" his way out of town. This year it looks like we've take a step backward instead of forward. We lost Cowen and probably Wiercioch, Zibanejad appears to have plateaued, Stone hit a sophomore slump, Methot had another injury scare, MacArthur may never play like he did before.

    We have upgraded our 2nd pairing by getting Phaneuf but the expectation coming into this season was that Cowen or Wiercioch would have been doing that same job, and at half the cap hit. So, yes, we got better, but we were already expecting that to happen and for less.

    We have shed some contracts (and will lose Phillips/Neil) so that gives us flexibility. What we do in the off-season will be vital. If we don't show a steady improvement next year and the year after that we may be losing Karlsson and then a full on rebuild.


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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:15 pm

    Yeah I'm starting to feel like we need to show more commitment on becoming contenders, otherwise Karlsson will bolt. Why wouldn't he? By the time he reaches UFA, he would have played 10 solid seasons for the sens. Doesn't owe them anything more.

    Chicago will still be competitive and little Sweden has already once stolen one of our captains before.
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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:35 pm

    Michallica wrote:Yeah I'm starting to feel like we need to show more commitment on becoming contenders, otherwise Karlsson will bolt.  Why wouldn't he?  By the time he reaches UFA, he would have played 10 solid seasons for the sens.  Doesn't owe them anything more.  

    Chicago will still be competitive and little Sweden has already once stolen one of our captains before.  
    I agree. The time to commit to being contenders is now. I'm all for acquiring Drouin but not at the expense of Hoffman (baring looking him) we need both those players. IMO Drouin isn't far off from being a player so I'm all for it. But the cost shouldn't really hurt us.
    The pipeline is ok, it's time to move some 1st at the draft for upgrades(as long as we don't win the lottery for the top 3 spots) and get ready to compete for next year.
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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:45 pm

    The one thing that I hope changes is the Canadian dollar. It usually goes on a 5-10 year cyclical period so we might be hitting a high Ina few years when a lot of the contracts come up for renewal. A large increase in the cap over that period of time would probably go a long way to helping us face some of those difficulties.
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    Re: Game Day #56: Avalanche @ Senators - 7:30PM, Thurs Feb 11 2016

    Post by tim1_2 on Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:54 pm

    You can't argue that Droin is going to be good, but shouldn't cost us much at the same time. Yeesh.

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