GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

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    wprager
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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by wprager on Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:46 am

    I am beginning to suspect that Dave Cameron is a terrible communicator. Or maybe just a terrible motivator. Or maybe just a terrible coach.

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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by Hoags on Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:52 am

    wprager wrote:I am beginning to suspect that Dave Cameron is a terrible communicator.  Or maybe just a terrible motivator.  Or maybe just a terrible coach.

    Not sure what anyone was expecting, Cameron wasn't very good in the few years he was HC in Binghamton. He's like Craig Hartsburg, can only coach teenagers.

    That's what happens when the owner chooses the coach.

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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:07 pm

    Big topic is having kostka/wideman and Gomez on at the end of the game and then the GWG is scored.  You probably need a more aggressive approach when you're fighting for your playoff lives and every point matters.  To play so well and not even get a single point is such a travesty.  I remember a game in the cup finals run where bryan murray didn't play his 4th line (mcammond's line) a single shift in the game

    Our special teams just absolutely sucks donkey balls.  I don't care if they 'looked good', they're piss poor in terms of actual results and in my mind is the single biggest reason we're so far on the outside
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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by wprager on Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:43 pm

    Our PP has been awful for several years now. PK, not sure what's happened but I showed before how Hammond's PK SV% was the worst in the league.


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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by Ev on Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:20 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    dennycrane wrote:Was at the game. Spezza really had a great game for Dallas. Bobby Ryan was good too but was saddled with Gomez and Dzingel. What a waste of a player and such a telling statement that Gomez is the best center you can find for Bobby Ryan. Dzingel isn't bad but he is no more than a 4th liner.

    What Dallas did was essentially double-cover Ryan and Hoffman. They were both saddled with inferior linemates. Bad coaching.

    I disagree. I thought Gomez was an excellent centre for Ryan because of his playmaking. Also thought Hoffman should have been scratched for the game. He was terrible again yesterday and cost us a couple of goals or chances.

    Spezza was only noticeable on the pp i found

    Only 7 players in the entire league have more even-strength goals over the last two seasons than Hoffman.  I would bet none of those players are defensive stalwarts, placed on the 4th line, sat out for an entire period of a game you are trailing, not seeing regular PP time.

    I'm not saying Hoffman should get a pass, I'm not saying we should not be trying to get every one to buy in on solid defensive play, I am not saying any of this.  But what I am saying is that Dave Cameron is not getting the message through -- it's not just Hoffman.  Cameron doesn't say anything about Borowiecki who regularly leaves his partner all alone while he tries to go for a huge hit.  I love what Borowiecki brings but he is far from perfect.  He has caused just as many turnovers from being *BAD* at handling the puck as Hoffman has simply by being so good that he does it so much of the time.  Boro has created probably *more* scoring  chances against by being out of position than Hoffman has (big difference, of course, is that at least he gets a lick in on someone, whereas Hoffman is just not in the right place).

    But the bottom line in all of this is that this isn't all on Hoffman.  Ryan has not bee very good for quite a while.  Zibanejad has been not very good for quite a while.  Lazar has made plenty of mistakes but, hey, he's just a kid.  All those callups have made tons of mistakes.  Chiasson has been horrawful for the last two years.  Wiercioch and Cowen sucked!  Wideman has made mistakes.  Karlsson -- OMG, he has made some horrible plays.  You can go up and down the lineup and, with very few exceptions, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of Hockey, but it seems Hoffman is the only being singled out by Cameron.

    And that is just bad coaching.

    Hoffman is singled out because he doesn't listen and shows zero desire to learn. Add that to the fact he isn't well liked by his teammates. It has nothing to do with coaching. Both maclean and Cameron treated him the same for a reason. He isn't a player I want on this team next year and if he is I will be disappointed. I don't like his game at all.

    When you're supposed to a be a top scorer you can't make mistakes like he has. Other goal scorers don't make the mistakes he does
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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:09 pm

    wprager wrote:I am beginning to suspect that Dave Cameron is a terrible communicator.  Or maybe just a terrible motivator.  Or maybe just a terrible coach.

    And a fool to boot. He doesn't play Hoffman in the third period - again, but when we get down a goal he trots him out. So dumb...play the guy. Tell him what you want, but you don't bench your leading goal scorer in the third, it's stupid. Cussing stupid.

    New GM and new coach please, but this time I want a veteran coach.
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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:10 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Hoffman is singled out because he doesn't listen and shows zero desire to learn. Add that to the fact he isn't well liked by his teammates. It has nothing to do with coaching. Both maclean and Cameron treated him the same for a reason. He isn't a player I want on this team next year and if he is I will be disappointed. I don't like his game at all.

    When you're supposed to a be a top scorer you can't make mistakes like he has. Other goal scorers don't make the mistakes he does

    I don't disagree, but the chips are down, we must win and he's not being played in a tie game. The dude has 27 goals or whatever it is, pick your battles Cameron.

    I hope we can maximize value on him. There's no way he'll be here next year.
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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:09 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:Poor effort level from Hoff, I was quite disappointed with him.  

    Zbad just doesn't seem to have the hockey sense you would like to see, although his effort level was good.  

    Poor effort from a lot of players.  Most of them nowhere near  43 goals over the last two seasons.
    53 goals. 4 in March and April last season - 22 games. 0 in March this year, granted only 4 games.
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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:10 pm

    wprager wrote:I get it.  I really do.  We want 43 goals from Hoffman but we also want more when he doesn't have the puck.  We are not asking him to be a heavy hitter but maybe finish a check now and again and not always do a fly-by.  And go ahead and be creative when carrying the puck but just not when you are the last guy back, and not when you are crossing the blue lines.  And make sure that you either have the puck, or are looking to get in a scoring zone when one of your team mates has the puck, or that you cover one of the other team's players when they have possession.

    I get all that.  We want him to be a better player.

    But, surely, there is a way to deliver that message in a clear, constructive way that doesn't appear like you are taking sides and being biased?
    Has it occurred to you that they may have tried that.
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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:12 pm

    Michallica wrote:Big topic is having kostka/wideman and Gomez on at the end of the game and then the GWG is scored.  You probably need a more aggressive approach when you're fighting for your playoff lives and every point matters.  To play so well and not even get a single point is such a travesty.  I remember a game in the cup finals run where bryan murray didn't play his 4th line (mcammond's line) a single shift in the game

    Our special teams just absolutely sucks donkey balls.  I don't care if they 'looked good', they're piss poor in terms of actual results and in my mind is the single biggest reason we're so far on the outside
    I suspect there will be turnover in the assistants this off season.
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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:20 pm

    Hoffman October - February last 2 years is a +25

    March - April is a -9

    Telling stat Hoffman has only 3 + games out of 26 in March and April the last 2 years.
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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:39 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:Hoffman October - February last 2 years is a +25

    March - April is a -9

    Telling stat Hoffman has only 3 + games out of 26 in March and April the last 2 years.  

    So...when the opponent's are in 'mid-season' form, Hoffman gets destroyed?
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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by wprager on Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:45 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Hoffman is singled out because he doesn't listen and shows zero desire to learn. Add that to the fact he isn't well liked by his teammates. It has nothing to do with coaching. Both maclean and Cameron treated him the same for a reason. He isn't a player I want on this team next year and if he is I will be disappointed. I don't like his game at all.

    When you're supposed to a be a top scorer you can't make mistakes like he has. Other goal scorers don't make the mistakes he does

    None of those assertions are anything but suppositions from you, with zero inside-the-room knowledge. You don't know if he is liked or not and, frankly, so long as he doesn't divide the room, who cares how popular he is? Spezza and McGrattan were quite popular, right? What does MacLean have to do with anything? MacLean wasn't even around when hr broke out. You can't say he doesn't listen because every one listens. You can's say he has zero desire to learn because you just don't know.


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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:22 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:Hoffman October - February last 2 years is a +25

    March - April is a -9

    Telling stat Hoffman has only 3 + games out of 26 in March and April the last 2 years.  

    So...when the opponent's are in 'mid-season' form, Hoffman gets destroyed?
    Stats can easily lie but the plus minus is pretty damning.
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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by wprager on Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:47 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:Hoffman October - February last 2 years is a +25

    March - April is a -9

    Telling stat Hoffman has only 3 + games out of 26 in March and April the last 2 years.  

    So...when the opponent's are in 'mid-season' form, Hoffman gets destroyed?
    Stats can easily lie but the plus minus is pretty damning.  

    He's actually still getting shots on goal (and off the posts/crossbar) but his shooting percentage is way down from earlier in the season. It's not a lack of effort.


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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by wprager on Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:49 pm

    Saw a stat showing his SH% being something like 12.5% from October to December and dropping to less than half that in January/February.


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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:58 pm

    just don't waste the asset when it's time to trade him. No Conacher and a 4th please.
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    Re: GAME DAY #67: Stars @ Senators - 5:00 pm - Sunday, March 6 2016

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:28 pm

    I say we retain Hoffman. The only way he's shipped is if he won't resign.

    Lots of Dung is said about him but fact is his speed in offense will be hard to replace.

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