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GAME DAY #69: Senators @ Panthers - 7:30 pm - Thursday, March 10 2016

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DefenceWinsChampionships


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Fire Smith and Tourigny. Replace with Richardson and someone else.

Ev


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DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Fire Smith and Tourigny. Replace with Richardson and someone else.

tourigny is fine, he should just take Smith's role to run the D. He turned Erik Johnson around in Colorado.

The best hire would be Jacques Martin

LeCaptain


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Jacques Martin would be perfect, I was thinking about him too lol.

PTFlea

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Not a huge fan of martin's defense only style. I agree that we need a been there done it type of coach though. Maybe Martin is telling best option. ..but I wish there was a hybrid defense and offense guy out there. I guess Trotz was the closest in recent years

Ev

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I meant Martin for the D. So defense only would be good for that lol.

wprager

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Ev wrote:I obviously love Karlsson but when he's your top player, the team, especially the D, will try to play like him which isn't a good style for most D. I am not sure we will ever be good defensively with Karlsson as our #1.

A lot of it is also on who is #2. Methot is not moving very well, especially when he tries to turn quickly. I think his hip/back/whatever may be still bothering him. They should try moving him down with Ceci.

Also the forwards need to help out by being in the right place to receive a pass, being hard on the back check, getting into passing lanes, and just plain old beating the other guy to the loose pucks.


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Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
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DefenceWinsChampionships


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wprager wrote:
Ev wrote:I obviously love Karlsson but when he's your top player, the team, especially the D, will try to play like him which isn't a good style for most D. I am not sure we will ever be good defensively with Karlsson as our #1.

A lot of it is also on who is #2.  Methot is not moving very well, especially when he tries to turn quickly.  I think his hip/back/whatever may be still bothering him.  They should try moving him down with Ceci.

Also the forwards need to help out by being in the right place to receive a pass, being hard on the back check, getting into passing lanes, and just plain old beating the other guy to the loose pucks.

I've thought Methot has looked bad all season. He hasn't been nearly as aggressive or physical as years past and he is playing too much with his stick and not enough with his body. Honestly I don't see how the Sens go forward with Karlsson, Methot, Phaneuf, and Ceci. $20M for 4 d-men. Yes that's fine on a cap team but in Ottawa that is too much money for four guys on a terrible defensive team. I am not sure if Methot has a NMC but I can see Phaneuf-Karl being a pair and someone else playing with Ceci next season. Not sure who.

I proposed a blockbuster with Edmonton in an earlier thread. They could use a guy like Methot who I think would be better suited with a more defensive-minded partner. I had originally proposed the following with the caveat of adding more if needed:

To EDM: Methot, Lazar, Hoffman, 3rd rd pick
To Ott: Hall, Nurse

We would probably need to give up more (Claesson?) but with Eberle, RNH, McDavid, Draisitl, top-three pick, Yakupov on the team they should really be focusing on the defensive side of the game. With Hoffman and Lazar they would easily have the most potent offence in the West, and with Methot they address a huge gap and think can compete next season for a playoff spot and potentially a decent playoff run. Edmonton is getting another top three pick and I don't think are interested in taking a lot of futures back in a trade. They're getting McDavid's buddy Lazar who is a huge fan favourite in EDM, a 30G scorer in Hoffman, a top-two d-man, pick, and a propsect. In this scenario they are looking at:

Pouliot-McDavid-Eberle
Hoffman-RNH-Lazar
Maroon-Draisitl-Yakupov
Korpikoski-Lander-Kassian

Sekera-Fayne
Methot-Klefbom
Reinhart-Ference

PTFlea

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Ev wrote:I meant Martin for the D. So defense only would be good for that lol.

Oh, I see...

SeawaySensFan

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DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
wprager wrote:
Ev wrote:I obviously love Karlsson but when he's your top player, the team, especially the D, will try to play like him which isn't a good style for most D. I am not sure we will ever be good defensively with Karlsson as our #1.

A lot of it is also on who is #2.  Methot is not moving very well, especially when he tries to turn quickly.  I think his hip/back/whatever may be still bothering him.  They should try moving him down with Ceci.

Also the forwards need to help out by being in the right place to receive a pass, being hard on the back check, getting into passing lanes, and just plain old beating the other guy to the loose pucks.

I've thought Methot has looked bad all season. He hasn't been nearly as aggressive or physical as years past and he is playing too much with his stick and not enough with his body. Honestly I don't see how the Sens go forward with Karlsson, Methot, Phaneuf, and Ceci. $20M for 4 d-men. Yes that's fine on a cap team but in Ottawa that is too much money for four guys on a terrible defensive team. I am not sure if Methot has a NMC but I can see Phaneuf-Karl being a pair and someone else playing with Ceci next season. Not sure who.

I proposed a blockbuster with Edmonton in an earlier thread. They could use a guy like Methot who I think would be better suited with a more defensive-minded partner. I had originally proposed the following with the caveat of adding more if needed:

To EDM: Methot, Lazar, Hoffman, 3rd rd pick
To Ott: Hall, Nurse

We would probably need to give up more (Claesson?) but with Eberle, RNH, McDavid, Draisitl, top-three pick, Yakupov on the team they should really be focusing on the defensive side of the game. With Hoffman and Lazar they would easily have the most potent offence in the West, and with Methot they address a huge gap and think can compete next season for a playoff spot and potentially a decent playoff run. Edmonton is getting another top three pick and I don't think are interested in taking a lot of futures back in a trade. They're getting McDavid's buddy Lazar who is a huge fan favourite in EDM, a 30G scorer in Hoffman, a top-two d-man, pick, and a propsect. In this scenario they are looking at:

Pouliot-McDavid-Eberle
Hoffman-RNH-Lazar
Maroon-Draisitl-Yakupov
Korpikoski-Lander-Kassian

Sekera-Fayne
Methot-Klefbom
Reinhart-Ference

http://www.gmhockey.com/t6326-how-do-we-fix-the-senators

Thanks.

Flo The Action

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SpezDispensed wrote:I could see everyone getting fired if/when a new gm come in.  It's time for new blood to come in and identify the core and get this team to the next step
and by new GM you mean Dorion? Melnyk has been pretty straight forward when he mentioned that BM had his succession plan already made up.

SensHulk

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LeCaptain wrote:No, what we need is some winners in the locker room and behind the bench. Been there done that type of guys.

Yup. Justin Williams should have been someone we went hard after last off-season. Don't even think he was that pricey, but whether he wanted to come to Ottawa or not is different.

Flo The Action

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Michallica wrote:
LeCaptain wrote:No, what we need is some winners in the locker room and behind the bench. Been there done that type of guys.

Yup.  Justin Williams should have been someone we went hard after last off-season.  Don't even think he was that pricey, but whether he wanted to come to Ottawa or not is different.  
i was a huge supporter of that move. sadly it never happened.

Flo The Action

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crawford to ottawa? E3
Sarcasm
http://www.tsn.ca/crawford-ready-to-return-to-coaching-in-north-america-1.451765

PTFlea

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Flo The Action wrote:
SpezDispensed wrote:I could see everyone getting fired if/when a new gm come in.  It's time for new blood to come in and identify the core and get this team to the next step
and by new GM you mean Dorion? Melnyk has been pretty straight forward when he mentioned that BM had his succession plan already made up.

Maybe. There's no saying doRion would be the same style as Murray. Look at Tim making big moves in Buffalo

wprager

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SpezDispensed wrote:
Flo The Action wrote:
SpezDispensed wrote:I could see everyone getting fired if/when a new gm come in.  It's time for new blood to come in and identify the core and get this team to the next step
and by new GM you mean Dorion? Melnyk has been pretty straight forward when he mentioned that BM had his succession plan already made up.

Maybe.  There's no saying doRion would be the same style as Murray.   Look at Tim making big moves in Buffalo

Tim's moves are yet to show dividends. But I think your point may have been that a member of Murray's management team, when given free rein, may go in a very different direction.

Thing is, Pegula had deep pockets and the Sabres sucked long enough to have gotten some nice picks. Ottawa is not in the same situation at all.

Maybe roll the dice with building around Alfie? Fire everyone, make Alfie President of Hockey Operations or some-such, let him hire his own scouting staff, GM, coach. I honestly don't see how it could be worse that the mess we're in now. 5 coaches (six counting Murray), one playoff win, four missed playoffs since the Cup Run.


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Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

tim1_2

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Brian Murray isn't going anywhere unless he decides to. Could you imagine the bad PR for Melnyk if he fired him at this point? Murray will likely step down as GM this summer and stay on as an advisor. Then Dorion takes over and we'll see what happens. I think we go into. Ext season with close to the status quo.

wprager

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tim1_2 wrote:Brian Murray isn't going anywhere unless he decides to. Could you imagine the bad PR for Melnyk if he fired him at this point?  Murray will likely step down as GM this summer and stay on as an advisor. Then Dorion takes over and we'll see what happens. I think we go into. Ext season with close to the status quo.

I think Murray realizes it's not working. He's been in hockey long enough to realize that, even if Phaneuf is here from day one, and Turris remains healthy and CMac plays a full(ish) season in the top six, that there is something else very wrong going on. Is it special teams coaching? Is it the head coach? Is it a rotten core?

If I were being extremely optimistic I'd be inclined to say that Phaneuf will bring in a breath of fresh air and professionalism to the room. From what I've heard he is a very vocal leader and very much a stickler for details like not dogging it, whether you are practicing or doing off-ice training or whatever. I think the Sens had *zero* players like that. Some were quite vocal but not exactly a role model (Spezza) and some were great role models but not vocal at all (Alfie and about a dozen others). Maybe zero was an overstatement -- Neil strikes me like that kind of player, too, but just not sure how much weight his word carries from the 4th line. I think it's time to put an 'A' on Phaneuf full-time and promote him to the top pairing. Maybe he'll be able to rein Karlsson in a bit from doing too much (which is almost always wrong), as well as provide a steadier presence there on the top pairing, and reducing Methot's exposure at the same time. Methot was a 6th round pick, I believe, and was not thought of anything much more than a 2nd pairing guy on a so-so team; perhaps he is out of his depth -- a beat up Dodge Duster rolling with a Lamborghini.

Who knows, maybe that would be enough, or at least it will get the ball rolling in the right direction.

But I honestly don't think very much will happen until they replace the coaching staff with some experience.


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Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

Flo The Action

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wprager wrote:
SpezDispensed wrote:
Flo The Action wrote:
SpezDispensed wrote:I could see everyone getting fired if/when a new gm come in.  It's time for new blood to come in and identify the core and get this team to the next step
and by new GM you mean Dorion? Melnyk has been pretty straight forward when he mentioned that BM had his succession plan already made up.

Maybe.  There's no saying doRion would be the same style as Murray.   Look at Tim making big moves in Buffalo

Tim's moves are yet to show dividends.  But I think your point may have been that a member of Murray's management team, when given free rein, may go in a very different direction.

Thing is, Pegula had deep pockets and the Sabres sucked long enough to have gotten some nice picks.  Ottawa is not in the same situation at all.

Maybe roll the dice with building around Alfie?  Fire everyone, make Alfie President of Hockey Operations or some-such, let him hire his own scouting staff, GM, coach.  I honestly don't see how it could be worse that the mess we're in now.  5 coaches (six counting Murray), one playoff win, four missed playoffs since the Cup Run.
Dude? Really? Alfie? He's got absolutely zero experience in that departement, probably doesn't know any extensive network of scouts and personnel. No no no... Alfie will take years to train into that type of position. You are flirting with utter disaster if you do that.

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