Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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    wprager
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:56 am

    Yes. marriages fail, but that doesn't mean they should. Heatley makes a commitment by signing a long-term contract, then something happens and he wants out. We label him a traitor, quitter, lowlife, no-character and so on. When you make a *life-long* commitment to a partner to love and to hold, for better or worse, forsaking all others, till death do us part, in front of witnesses -- well, shouldn't that be at least as important as signing a contract for a fraction of your life? And when that trust and promise is broken, should you not be held up to the same criticism that Heatley was?

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:43 am

    wprager wrote:Yes. marriages fail, but that doesn't mean they should.  Heatley makes a commitment by signing a long-term contract, then something happens and he wants out.  We label him a traitor, quitter, lowlife, no-character and so on.  When you make a *life-long* commitment to a partner to love and to hold, for better or worse, forsaking all others, till death do us part, in front of witnesses -- well, shouldn't that be at least as important as signing a contract for a fraction of your life?  And when that trust and promise is broken, should you not be held up to the same criticism that Heatley was?
    Judge not lest ye be judged.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:47 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    wprager wrote:Yes. marriages fail, but that doesn't mean they should.  Heatley makes a commitment by signing a long-term contract, then something happens and he wants out.  We label him a traitor, quitter, lowlife, no-character and so on.  When you make a *life-long* commitment to a partner to love and to hold, for better or worse, forsaking all others, till death do us part, in front of witnesses -- well, shouldn't that be at least as important as signing a contract for a fraction of your life?  And when that trust and promise is broken, should you not be held up to the same criticism that Heatley was?
    Judge not lest ye be judged.

    Yep. Guilty as charged. Never said I was perfect.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:49 am

    Alfie sold out his team and got an upgrade there (or at least he thought he did) but at least he didn't try to upgrade his wife.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hoags on Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:19 am

    Hopefully Alfie guides Karlsson on being the best captain he can be. #11 got a lot of crap in Ottawa as well so EK has the best guidance he could ever hope to have on dealing with that.

    EK doesn't strike as me very immature. I thought he's handled everything fairly well. Not his fault the team sucks. No one carries their team like he does.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:15 am

    Hoags wrote:Hopefully Alfie guides Karlsson on being the best captain he can be.  #11 got a lot of crap in Ottawa as well so EK has the best guidance he could ever hope to have on dealing with that.

    EK doesn't strike as me very immature.  I thought he's handled everything fairly well.  Not his fault the team sucks.  No one carries their team like he does.

    He gets a bit of an unfair knock because he is a little flashy and he often looks like he's not being very serious (contrast the impish look in his eyes versus Alfie's "Maurice Richard" eyes). I honestly did not think he had a huge ego -- not sure where that's coming from. I still remember him in his first development camp goofing around when they were doing pushups on the ice. He was a bit of a goofball, did not come across high-and-mighty at all.

    Who really knows, eh?


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:22 am

    MacArthur and Phaneuf are done for the year.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:30 pm

    wprager wrote:MacArthur and Phaneuf are done for the year.  
    MacArthur's career may be done if you ask me. I'm sure he'll try to make it back but let's be realistic. These concussion issues may never be finished with. I'm sure he'll try to come back from them but maybe it's time to adress the issue. His contract is insured.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:53 pm

    Im not sure his contract is insured, but either way, I'd expect he'll be back and at it next year.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:54 pm

    I'm very curious who the next gm will be though. Will it be Dorion, or an outsider who can look at the roster without bias.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by tim1_2 on Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:08 pm

    wprager wrote:MacArthur and Phaneuf are done for the year.  


    If we were playoff bound, that Phaneuf injury would really suck.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:10 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:I'm very curious who the next gm will be though.  Will it be Dorion,  or an outsider who can look at the roster without bias.
    Dorion. You can bank on it.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:03 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:I'm very curious who the next gm will be though.  Will it be Dorion,  or an outsider who can look at the roster without bias.
    Dorion. You can bank on it.

    I won't bank on anything right now. Dorion has been a part of the machine that hasn't been good enough, not even close, for the last 7 years or whatever it's been. I love him as an amateur scout, but what says he should be our next GM, other than loyalty?
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:09 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:I'm very curious who the next gm will be though.  Will it be Dorion,  or an outsider who can look at the roster without bias.
    Dorion. You can bank on it.

    I won't bank on anything right now.  Dorion has been a part of the machine that hasn't been good enough, not even close, for the last 7 years or whatever it's been.  I love him as an amateur scout, but what says he should be our next GM, other than loyalty?

    He seems to be pretty good in negotiating contracts (was part of negotiations for anderson, methot, ryan, lehner). What that suggests to me is he's a good communicator and can clearly make good arguments and/or is really good at convincing people. See arbitration for chiasson, hoffman. Everyone thinks the sens are cheap because they chose to go to arbitration but the fact an independent arbitrator more or less agreed with the sens should tell you that the sens are actually pretty good at figuring out a player's worth. Smart, not cheap. I think the arbitration was mostly handled by Dorion if I'm not mistaken.

    I believe he's ready and am willing to give him a shot. I don't really see another GM out in the market that's a better choice, and if we're going down the route of poaching AGMs of other teams....why not just promote from within?
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:47 pm

    Michallica wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    SpezDispensed wrote:I'm very curious who the next gm will be though.  Will it be Dorion,  or an outsider who can look at the roster without bias.
    Dorion. You can bank on it.

    I won't bank on anything right now.  Dorion has been a part of the machine that hasn't been good enough, not even close, for the last 7 years or whatever it's been.  I love him as an amateur scout, but what says he should be our next GM, other than loyalty?

    He seems to be pretty good in negotiating contracts (was part of negotiations for anderson, methot, ryan, lehner).  What that suggests to me is he's a good communicator and can clearly make good arguments and/or is really good at convincing people.  See arbitration for chiasson, hoffman.  Everyone thinks the sens are cheap because they chose to go to arbitration but the fact an independent arbitrator more or less agreed with the sens should tell you that the sens are actually pretty good at figuring out a player's worth.  Smart, not cheap.  I think the arbitration was mostly handled by Dorion if I'm not mistaken.  

    I believe he's ready and am willing to give him a shot. I don't really see another GM out in the market that's a better choice, and if we're going down the route of poaching AGMs of other teams....why not just promote from within?  

    Simply because he's in the same boat as Murray, in that, what they've done hasn't been good enough. They haven't assembled a winning team that's made the Conference Finals, they haven't gotten out of the 2nd round, they're mired in mediocrity. I appreciate that Dorion and co. are amazing drafters and know the value of a contract (although, you left out Cowen and Greening's contracts), but we need to WIN while Karlsson is still young and vibrant (and most importantly under contract for cheap).

    Is he the guy to take this roster and take it to the next level? I have no idea, but he really hasn't shown much in terms of icing a 'winner' in his tenure here.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:49 pm

    And, I'm not talking about winning a championship necessarily, although that's a must when you have the best D-man in the league and a top 5 player, but I mean getting to the playoffs and having assembled the roster to get to the 2nd round and beyond.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:56 pm

    I left out cowen and greening because at the time, Mr. Tim Murray was AGM.  I was simply pointing out that since Dorion has been part of negotiations as AGM, he's been pretty good.

    I 100% agree in theory, we need a complete overhaul and new voice but it's abundantly clear that's not going to happen.  BMurr is sticking around in some capacity, sens are pretty happy with their scouting staff (whether they've faltered lately or not, they're still considered one of the best in the NHL), and GMs haven't hemorrhaged the future with long and terrible contracts like other teams.  

    Now for the execution part, I agree.  I think the trades have left a lot to be desired, free agency for the most part has been fruitless.  The Alfie fiasco happened, but I place that on Murray/Melnyk than anyone else (I think we can agree not Dorion's fault).  

    A good chunk of the core is in place.  Anderson is getting older, and Karlsson is in his prime.  And never forget that you have a mark stone in your lineup.  The team is close, just need someone to nudge them to contender status instead of being a fringe playoff team.  

    If there are issues in the locker room with star players, like Karlsson (just speculating), then you need to do what Washington has done and bring in a proven veteran coach and that might be enough to make us a contender. Somebody apart from Bryan Murray needs to make that decision going forward (coaches alone are reason for murray to be dismissed)
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:11 pm

    Perhaps you give the chance to Dorion, but he'd be on a short leash - like, get the team to the playoffs and then get them to the 2nd round in the next two years and you can keep your job.

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