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PTFlea


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And, I'm not talking about winning a championship necessarily, although that's a must when you have the best D-man in the league and a top 5 player, but I mean getting to the playoffs and having assembled the roster to get to the 2nd round and beyond.

SensHulk


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I left out cowen and greening because at the time, Mr. Tim Murray was AGM. †I was simply pointing out that since Dorion has been part of negotiations as AGM, he's been pretty good.

I 100% agree in theory, we need a complete overhaul and new voice but it's abundantly clear that's not going to happen. †BMurr is sticking around in some capacity, sens are pretty happy with their scouting staff (whether they've faltered lately or not, they're still considered one of the best in the NHL), and GMs haven't hemorrhaged the future with long and terrible contracts like other teams. †

Now for the execution part, I agree. †I think the trades have left a lot to be desired, free agency for the most part has been fruitless. †The Alfie fiasco happened, but I place that on Murray/Melnyk than anyone else (I think we can agree not Dorion's fault). †

A good chunk of the core is in place. †Anderson is getting older, and Karlsson is in his prime. †And never forget that you have a mark stone in your lineup. †The team is close, just need someone to nudge them to contender status instead of being a fringe playoff team. †

If there are issues in the locker room with star players, like Karlsson (just speculating), then you need to do what Washington has done and bring in a proven veteran coach and that might be enough to make us a contender. Somebody apart from Bryan Murray needs to make that decision going forward (coaches alone are reason for murray to be dismissed)

PTFlea


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Perhaps you give the chance to Dorion, but he'd be on a short leash - like, get the team to the playoffs and then get them to the 2nd round in the next two years and you can keep your job.

spader

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SpezDispensed wrote:Perhaps you give the chance to Dorion, but he'd be on a short leash - like, get the team to the playoffs and then get them to the 2nd round in the next two years and you can keep your job.

That might be asking a bit much. Get to the playoffs, sure, but maybe start with "build a more competitive team."

"Get to the second round in the next two years or you're fired sounds pretty aggressive.

PTFlea

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spader wrote:
SpezDispensed wrote:Perhaps you give the chance to Dorion, but he'd be on a short leash - like, get the team to the playoffs and then get them to the 2nd round in the next two years and you can keep your job.

That might be asking a bit much. Get to the playoffs, sure, but maybe start with "build a more competitive team."

"Get to the second round in the next two years or you're fired sounds pretty aggressive.

We've been trying with this management for so long, there's only so much time you can give these guys. I just want to win though, so...I don't really care who's in charge.

Flo The Action

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man spezzD how does the Melnyk kool-aid taste? Laugh1

listen i think a lot of good points have been brought up. just looking at an outside perspective how many capable GM's out there could we really swipe? no one has taken a run at Paul Fenton and that's been my candidate for years but he's only been an assistant in nashville. are there actual GM's out there with good experience that are available? i think not.
i completely agree that Murray's choice in coaching has been somewhat questionable and in any other market might have gotten the GM fired. it's pretty obvious that Cameron is getting fired this summer and he was melnyk's pick. this is a case of putting Dorion in the driver seat with the control and seeing what he can do. i would agree to giving him somewhat of a short leash like get us to the post season and have us finish continually in the top 6 in the east by the 2nd year because honestly that's where a winning team should always be.
where i don't agree is judging this team for not making the conference finals since 2007. we all know the mess this team was in after. the only mistake that i can see with hindsight is that we should of blown it up more extensively after that parting with players to have a more completel rebuild. having a few years in a row toiling at the bottom would have probably shown better results today but that's all hard to say now.
i think for the most part the current regime tried to do what was best with the demands of ownership. if there's any problems it should be pointed ownership.

Melnyk has been pretty clear that Murray had a succession plan established and i doubt we see anything else.
if anything the proclaimed shake up we will see this summer will likely be done under Dorion's discretion and that should be interesting as he puts his stamp on the team. I just hope Melnyk's puts his money where his mouth is and unloosens the purse strings if need be.

PTFlea

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Flo The Action wrote:man spezzD how does the Melnyk kool-aid taste? Laugh1

listen i think a lot of good points have been brought up. just looking at an outside perspective how many capable GM's out there could we really swipe? no one has taken a run at Paul Fenton and that's been my candidate for years but he's only been an assistant in nashville. are there actual GM's out there with good experience that are available? i think not.
i completely agree that Murray's choice in coaching has been somewhat questionable and in any other market might have gotten the GM fired. it's pretty obvious that Cameron is getting fired this summer and he was melnyk's pick. this is a case of putting Dorion in the driver seat with the control and seeing what he can do. i would agree to giving him somewhat of a short leash like get us to the post season and have us finish continually in the top 6 in the east by the 2nd year because honestly that's where a winning team should always be.
where i don't agree is judging this team for not making the conference finals since 2007. we all know the mess this team was in after. the only mistake that i can see with hindsight is that we should of blown it up more extensively after that parting with players to have a more completel rebuild. having a few years in a row toiling at the bottom would have probably shown better results today but that's all hard to say now.
i think for the most part the current regime tried to do what was best with the demands of ownership. if there's any problems it should be pointed ownership.

Melnyk has been pretty clear that Murray had a succession plan established and i doubt we see anything else.
if anything the proclaimed shake up we will see this summer will likely be done under Dorion's discretion and that should be interesting as he puts his stamp on the team. I just hope Melnyk's puts his money where his mouth is and unloosens the purse strings if need be.

How is that Melnyk's Kool Aid? Just calling it like I see it. Melnyk has opened his wallet enough IMO, it's time to take a long look at the roster and decide if it's good enough.

Flo The Action

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SpezDispensed wrote:
Flo The Action wrote:man spezzD how does the Melnyk kool-aid taste? Laugh1

listen i think a lot of good points have been brought up. just looking at an outside perspective how many capable GM's out there could we really swipe? no one has taken a run at Paul Fenton and that's been my candidate for years but he's only been an assistant in nashville. are there actual GM's out there with good experience that are available? i think not.
i completely agree that Murray's choice in coaching has been somewhat questionable and in any other market might have gotten the GM fired. it's pretty obvious that Cameron is getting fired this summer and he was melnyk's pick. this is a case of putting Dorion in the driver seat with the control and seeing what he can do. i would agree to giving him somewhat of a short leash like get us to the post season and have us finish continually in the top 6 in the east by the 2nd year because honestly that's where a winning team should always be.
where i don't agree is judging this team for not making the conference finals since 2007. we all know the mess this team was in after. the only mistake that i can see with hindsight is that we should of blown it up more extensively after that parting with players to have a more completel rebuild. having a few years in a row toiling at the bottom would have probably shown better results today but that's all hard to say now.
i think for the most part the current regime tried to do what was best with the demands of ownership. if there's any problems it should be pointed ownership.

Melnyk has been pretty clear that Murray had a succession plan established and i doubt we see anything else.
if anything the proclaimed shake up we will see this summer will likely be done under Dorion's discretion and that should be interesting as he puts his stamp on the team. I just hope Melnyk's puts his money where his mouth is and unloosens the purse strings if need be.

How is that Melnyk's Kool Aid? †Just calling it like I see it. †Melnyk has opened his wallet enough IMO, it's time to take a long look at the roster and decide if it's good enough.
melnyk's kool-aid is the call for drastic change at all levels. i think it's a lot of hot air if you ask me. i mean i do expect change but not everywhere. definitely needs a shake up.
it's not about having to spend, it's more about having the funds available if the right move comes along. and i haven't had that impression from him. it's always budget budget budget. hey, if kalrsson is feeling it also then it's because it's being felt internally also.

PTFlea

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What's this from SensChirp?

Iíve already heard from multiple sources that the front office has been asked to cut payroll significantly heading into next year. Iím already hearing stories about people that work for the team being laid off. wrote:

PTFlea

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http://senschirp.ca/news/melnyk-speaks-senators-lose/

Third paragraph. I bet that's not true...but still.

wprager

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why do you expect the purse strings to be loosened? They've been very loose with the contracts given to over-the-hill players. Read my earlier post: http://www.gmhockey.com/t6330p1000-ottawa-senators-present-and-past-tidbits-quick-hits#418804

Next year we should have over $6M in additional spending to get to the internal budget.


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PTFlea

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Flo The Action wrote:melnyk's kool-aid is the call for drastic change at all levels. i think it's a lot of hot air if you ask me. i mean i do expect change but not everywhere. definitely needs a shake up.
it's not about having to spend, it's more about having the funds available if the right move comes along. and i haven't had that impression from him. it's always budget budget budget. hey, if kalrsson is feeling it also then it's because it's being felt internally also.

You need to get either a 1C or a top line winger - and no one said that was gonna be easy, but, if Melnyk wants to make the playoffs, he needs to bolster this team properly so we're not a bubble team year after year.

I also think that management needs to go, pretty much A-Z, although I'd keep Dorion until the new GM came in and decided for himself.

SensHulk

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I wouldn't worry about it spezzD unless it comes from a reputable source like dreger or mackenzie and SC just isn't it anymore. Rather he's joined the ranks with the other bunghole who claim 'melnyk is the devil, corsi rules!' That's pretty much the cookie cutter sens blogger, no?

Does anyone remember what happened to the Miami Heat? The summer they got lebron, wade, bosh....they canned their entire sales staff because there was no need to sell tickets anymore. Obviously not the case with the sens, and i don't doubt people are losing jobs (sad for them), but there's more to this than meets the eye. SC just wants everyone to get worked up because of comments last week and that = more hits to the website.

PTFlea

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I agree, it's near impossible for him to trim salary. I respected SC a it more than you, but still, I think that's BS.

SensHulk

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SpezDispensed wrote:I agree, it's near impossible for him to trim salary. †I respected SC a it more than you, but still, I think that's BS.

Meh, I think he was legit before. I used to visit his blog all the time. Then he became a big sens puppet (I suspect he got reeled in by the sens) and then suddenly transformed into one of the biggest melnyk haters (I suspect he got cut off by the sens, or his sources got laid off). Just felt like he was pandering more to the 'let your imaginations run wild' crowd. I see nothing's changed...

Flo The Action

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SpezDispensed wrote:
Flo The Action wrote:melnyk's kool-aid is the call for drastic change at all levels. i think it's a lot of hot air if you ask me. i mean i do expect change but not everywhere. definitely needs a shake up.
it's not about having to spend, it's more about having the funds available if the right move comes along. and i haven't had that impression from him. it's always budget budget budget. hey, if kalrsson is feeling it also then it's because it's being felt internally also.

You need to get either a 1C or a top line winger - and no one said that was gonna be easy, but, if Melnyk wants to make the playoffs, he needs to bolster this team properly so we're not a bubble team year after year.

I also think that management needs to go, pretty much A-Z, although I'd keep Dorion until the new GM came in and decided for himself.
completely agree and i'd say both! although drouin might be that guy in a few years but yes a top line centre would be great. i'm just unsure of who that is and how they will get it. maybe hoffman packaged with zib(no, not to colorado. that's not listening to their needs).

as far as management i think it's asking for too much. BM will be stepping down. cameron will be out and hopefully we can lure a great coach that will get laid off because of a first or second round tough match up loss.
there's no point parting ways with Dorion anyways. i believe he might be cut from a slightly different cloth than murray when it comes to drafting and we will probably see some slight changes. it's all guesses at this point how agressive he will be on the trade front which is probably the most important aspect the sens need to adress going forward. as for management of contract i can trust him. if we get lucky we can finally part ways with this old players loyalty mentality that Brian has.

Oglethorpe

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I don't understand the concern over losing Dorion. the next GM could be an external hire, and he will assemble his own scouting staff. Lots of good drafting teams out there, it's not like Dorion is the GOAT of amateur scouting.

SensHulk

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Oglethorpe wrote:I don't understand the concern over losing Dorion. †the next GM could be an external hire, and he will assemble his own scouting staff. †Lots of good drafting teams out there, it's not like Dorion is the GOAT of amateur scouting. †

I don't think anyone is concerned in losing Dorion, we just don't see what other options are out there. †I will say this that sens have been great drafters but not great developers. †Exceptions are mark stone, mike hoffman, and erik karlsson (non-mediocre players). †

Definitely need someone to fix up Bingo.

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