Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Share

    Flo The Action
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 12918
    Registration date : 2008-12-18

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:51 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:melnyk's kool-aid is the call for drastic change at all levels. i think it's a lot of hot air if you ask me. i mean i do expect change but not everywhere. definitely needs a shake up.
    it's not about having to spend, it's more about having the funds available if the right move comes along. and i haven't had that impression from him. it's always budget budget budget. hey, if kalrsson is feeling it also then it's because it's being felt internally also.

    You need to get either a 1C or a top line winger - and no one said that was gonna be easy, but, if Melnyk wants to make the playoffs, he needs to bolster this team properly so we're not a bubble team year after year.

    I also think that management needs to go, pretty much A-Z, although I'd keep Dorion until the new GM came in and decided for himself.
    completely agree and i'd say both! although drouin might be that guy in a few years but yes a top line centre would be great. i'm just unsure of who that is and how they will get it. maybe hoffman packaged with zib(no, not to colorado. that's not listening to their needs).

    as far as management i think it's asking for too much. BM will be stepping down. cameron will be out and hopefully we can lure a great coach that will get laid off because of a first or second round tough match up loss.
    there's no point parting ways with Dorion anyways. i believe he might be cut from a slightly different cloth than murray when it comes to drafting and we will probably see some slight changes. it's all guesses at this point how agressive he will be on the trade front which is probably the most important aspect the sens need to adress going forward. as for management of contract i can trust him. if we get lucky we can finally part ways with this old players loyalty mentality that Brian has.

    Oglethorpe
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 1853
    Registration date : 2010-08-31

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:48 pm

    I don't understand the concern over losing Dorion. the next GM could be an external hire, and he will assemble his own scouting staff. Lots of good drafting teams out there, it's not like Dorion is the GOAT of amateur scouting.

    Hoff-Machine
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 8461
    Registration date : 2009-06-22

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:48 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:I don't understand the concern over losing Dorion.  the next GM could be an external hire, and he will assemble his own scouting staff.  Lots of good drafting teams out there, it's not like Dorion is the GOAT of amateur scouting.  

    I don't think anyone is concerned in losing Dorion, we just don't see what other options are out there.  I will say this that sens have been great drafters but not great developers.  Exceptions are mark stone, mike hoffman, and erik karlsson (non-mediocre players).  

    Definitely need someone to fix up Bingo.
    avatar
    Flo The Action
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 12918
    Age : 41
    Location : montreal
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-12-18

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:30 am

    Michallica wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:I don't understand the concern over losing Dorion.  the next GM could be an external hire, and he will assemble his own scouting staff.  Lots of good drafting teams out there, it's not like Dorion is the GOAT of amateur scouting.  

    I don't think anyone is concerned in losing Dorion, we just don't see what other options are out there.  I will say this that sens have been great drafters but not great developers.  Exceptions are mark stone, mike hoffman, and erik karlsson (non-mediocre players).  

    Definitely need someone to fix up Bingo.
    Development is ok with forwards. Not so great with Dmen. You have to wonder. Jason smith has to be replaced.
    This team needs a better identity. So far just being a team that is based on grit to win isn't getting us anywhere.

    I think Dorion has good eye for talent but no matter what your eye is the vision of the team built is that of Brian. Maybe Dorion heading the operation will have a different one.
    avatar
    spader
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 10037
    Age : 37
    Location : La Loche, Saskatchewan
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2009-07-09

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by spader on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:25 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:I don't understand the concern over losing Dorion.  the next GM could be an external hire, and he will assemble his own scouting staff.  Lots of good drafting teams out there, it's not like Dorion is the GOAT of amateur scouting.  

    GOAT? Like...this guy?

    Warning, NSFW:

    avatar
    Hoags
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 9235
    Age : 40
    Location : Mississauga
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2009-07-10

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hoags on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:17 pm

    Honestly what can you say about this team?

    The team has been basically the same no matter which coach they hire and whatever players Murray brings in or takes out. They're still a bubble playoff team.

    What worries me is that Melnyk(and maybe Murray&co) think they have a winning team in the making when it feels like we're the Burke era Leafs where management massively overrates the roster and thinks they have a Stanley Cup winner in the making.

    Everyone talks about bringing in a new coach or adding/subtracting a player here or there but it's looking more and more likely that the entire decision making process this team was built with is flawed.

    It feels like nothing will really change until new management is brought in from the outside with a fresh perspective but as long as Melnyk defers to BM and his plans we're stuck in a holding pattern while Karlsson's best years are being wasted because management is living in some fantasy land where we are so close to a deep playoff run we only need .

    Everyone talking about trading for Drouin, or a new coaching staff, or a top #1C etc. We've made these kind of changes before, nothing really changed did it?

    DefenceWinsChampionships
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 1884
    Age : 87
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-05-23

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:24 pm

    Michallica wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:I don't understand the concern over losing Dorion.  the next GM could be an external hire, and he will assemble his own scouting staff.  Lots of good drafting teams out there, it's not like Dorion is the GOAT of amateur scouting.  

    I don't think anyone is concerned in losing Dorion, we just don't see what other options are out there.  I will say this that sens have been great drafters but not great developers.  Exceptions are mark stone, mike hoffman, and erik karlsson (non-mediocre players).  

    Definitely need someone to fix up Bingo.

    I'd put Ceci in there too but you're right. No one is coming out of Bingo near where they should be. If I were Melnyk I'd be gutting the operation. New coach, new GM (external), new coach in Bingo and start assessing each and every player and their future with the team. At this point I think Karlsson and Stone are really the only two players I would trade at no cost.

    DefenceWinsChampionships
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 1884
    Age : 87
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-05-23

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:26 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Michallica wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:I don't understand the concern over losing Dorion.  the next GM could be an external hire, and he will assemble his own scouting staff.  Lots of good drafting teams out there, it's not like Dorion is the GOAT of amateur scouting.  

    I don't think anyone is concerned in losing Dorion, we just don't see what other options are out there.  I will say this that sens have been great drafters but not great developers.  Exceptions are mark stone, mike hoffman, and erik karlsson (non-mediocre players).  

    Definitely need someone to fix up Bingo.

    I'd put Ceci in there too but you're right. No one is coming out of Bingo near where they should be. If I were Melnyk I'd be gutting the operation. New coach, new GM (external), new coach in Bingo and start assessing each and every player and their future with the team. At this point I think Karlsson and Stone are really the only two players I would trade at no cost.

    Even then I believe we have seen the start of a rift between Melnyk and Karlsson which could lead to some bad things...

    DefenceWinsChampionships
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 1884
    Age : 87
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-05-23

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:31 pm

    Hoags wrote:Honestly what can you say about this team?

    The team has been basically the same no matter which coach they hire and whatever players Murray brings in or takes out.  They're still a bubble playoff team.

    What worries me is that Melnyk(and maybe Murray&co) think they have a winning team in the making when it feels like we're the Burke era Leafs where management massively overrates the roster and thinks they have a Stanley Cup winner in the making.

    Everyone talks about bringing in a new coach or adding/subtracting a player here or there but it's looking more and more likely that the entire decision making process this team was built with is flawed.

    It feels like nothing will really change until new management is brought in from the outside with a fresh perspective but as long as Melnyk defers to BM and his plans we're stuck in a holding pattern while Karlsson's best years are being wasted because management is living in some fantasy land where we are so close to a deep playoff run we only need .

    Everyone talking about trading for Drouin, or a new coaching staff, or a top #1C etc.  We've made these kind of changes before, nothing really changed did it?

    Go big or go home. Leverage your picks, cap space, and prospects and bring in some elite talent. Target Duchene or Hall, shore up the D, and bring in an experienced coach who gets the compete level up with his players. I think the Sens are close to being a good team again. They can score goals - they just need to keep them out of their own net and improve their special teams. Those would be my areas of focus in terms of restructuring the players.
    avatar
    tim1_2
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 16254
    Age : 34
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-01-07

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by tim1_2 on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:50 pm

    Hoags wrote:Honestly what can you say about this team?

    The team has been basically the same no matter which coach they hire and whatever players Murray brings in or takes out.  They're still a bubble playoff team.

    What worries me is that Melnyk(and maybe Murray&co) think they have a winning team in the making when it feels like we're the Burke era Leafs where management massively overrates the roster and thinks they have a Stanley Cup winner in the making.

    Everyone talks about bringing in a new coach or adding/subtracting a player here or there but it's looking more and more likely that the entire decision making process this team was built with is flawed.

    It feels like nothing will really change until new management is brought in from the outside with a fresh perspective but as long as Melnyk defers to BM and his plans we're stuck in a holding pattern while Karlsson's best years are being wasted because management is living in some fantasy land where we are so close to a deep playoff run we only need .

    Everyone talking about trading for Drouin, or a new coaching staff, or a top #1C etc.  We've made these kind of changes before, nothing really changed did it?

    I asked a few months back if anyone else was afraid that our current core wasn't going to be able to get the job done long-term. I still don't know how I answer that question.

    I think one of the major problems lies with two of our key players: Bobby Ryan and Mika Zibanejad. I question their commitment to winning. Remember when Burke said Bobby Ryan can't even spell intensity? Well, I'm starting to think that he was right. Both of these guys are very talented, but I think that hockey is their job, not their passion.

    On the flip-side, I don't think things are as bad as they seem now. We were without our #1 centre for a big portion of the season, without a top 6 LW for the entire season, and our defense was horrible to start the year. Our defense is greatly improved now with Dion, and hopefully C-Mac can return to being a productive player next season.

    DefenceWinsChampionships
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 1884
    Age : 87
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-05-23

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:58 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:
    Hoags wrote:Honestly what can you say about this team?

    The team has been basically the same no matter which coach they hire and whatever players Murray brings in or takes out.  They're still a bubble playoff team.

    What worries me is that Melnyk(and maybe Murray&co) think they have a winning team in the making when it feels like we're the Burke era Leafs where management massively overrates the roster and thinks they have a Stanley Cup winner in the making.

    Everyone talks about bringing in a new coach or adding/subtracting a player here or there but it's looking more and more likely that the entire decision making process this team was built with is flawed.

    It feels like nothing will really change until new management is brought in from the outside with a fresh perspective but as long as Melnyk defers to BM and his plans we're stuck in a holding pattern while Karlsson's best years are being wasted because management is living in some fantasy land where we are so close to a deep playoff run we only need .

    Everyone talking about trading for Drouin, or a new coaching staff, or a top #1C etc.  We've made these kind of changes before, nothing really changed did it?

    I asked a few months back if anyone else was afraid that our current core wasn't going to be able to get the job done long-term.  I still don't know how I answer that question.

    I think one of the major problems lies with two of our key players: Bobby Ryan and Mika Zibanejad.  I question their commitment to winning.  Remember when Burke said Bobby Ryan can't even spell intensity?  Well, I'm starting to think that he was right.  Both of these guys are very talented, but I think that hockey is their job, not their passion.  

    On the flip-side, I don't think things are as bad as they seem now.  We were without our #1 centre for a big portion of the season, without a top 6 LW for the entire season, and our defense was horrible to start the year.  Our defense is greatly improved now with Dion, and hopefully C-Mac can return to being a productive player next season.  

    I thought Ryan looked great against Anaheim but he was obviously motivated that game. That's why I think the Sens need a coaching change. They need to get more out of their players. I watch Toronto and they have nowhere close to the same skill-level is Ottawa but they play hard, battle for pucks in the corner, block shots, etc. Can't say I've seen Ottawa do that a whole hell of a lot this season.
    avatar
    Hoff-Machine
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 8461
    Age : 32
    Location : Orange County, CA
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2009-06-22

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:48 pm

    We went on a fantastic run last season without Bobby Ryan. I think he can still play a decent role on the team but I wouldn't include him part of any 'core' anymore.

    Also please let's never compare our teams to any burke-leafs era teams. We've made the playoffs in full 82 game seasons and have drafted a generational talent. I said it the other night, the team is so close yet so far.

    They've got a terrible habit of not focusing and playing lazy and uninspired. It's really bizarre but yes it's been happening with a few coaches now. I also know the constant has always been an inexperienced coach taking reigns and then losing the room (clearly). Another is slow starts, they've been starting slow for some time. I don't know how many team meetings they've had just to discuss coming out harder....shouldn't be that way.And finally, allowing way too many shots against based on defensive zone coverage.
    avatar
    PTFlea
    Co-Founder
    Co-Founder

    Number of posts : 54243
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-07-31

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:50 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:
    Hoags wrote:Honestly what can you say about this team?

    The team has been basically the same no matter which coach they hire and whatever players Murray brings in or takes out.  They're still a bubble playoff team.

    What worries me is that Melnyk(and maybe Murray&co) think they have a winning team in the making when it feels like we're the Burke era Leafs where management massively overrates the roster and thinks they have a Stanley Cup winner in the making.

    Everyone talks about bringing in a new coach or adding/subtracting a player here or there but it's looking more and more likely that the entire decision making process this team was built with is flawed.

    It feels like nothing will really change until new management is brought in from the outside with a fresh perspective but as long as Melnyk defers to BM and his plans we're stuck in a holding pattern while Karlsson's best years are being wasted because management is living in some fantasy land where we are so close to a deep playoff run we only need .

    Everyone talking about trading for Drouin, or a new coaching staff, or a top #1C etc.  We've made these kind of changes before, nothing really changed did it?

    I asked a few months back if anyone else was afraid that our current core wasn't going to be able to get the job done long-term.  I still don't know how I answer that question.

    I think one of the major problems lies with two of our key players: Bobby Ryan and Mika Zibanejad.  I question their commitment to winning.  Remember when Burke said Bobby Ryan can't even spell intensity?  Well, I'm starting to think that he was right.  Both of these guys are very talented, but I think that hockey is their job, not their passion.  

    On the flip-side, I don't think things are as bad as they seem now.  We were without our #1 centre for a big portion of the season, without a top 6 LW for the entire season, and our defense was horrible to start the year.  Our defense is greatly improved now with Dion, and hopefully C-Mac can return to being a productive player next season.  

    I have to agree...and I don't want to about Ryan. But at least, with a passing center, he can still be a threat out there, Zibanejad has looked unmotivated too much of the time.

    ZBad and Hoffman, combined with Ryan = way too much apathy. Hoffman and Zbad we can change up, Ryan we're stuck with with that contract, so all we can do is hope we get good value on the players we choose to trade and that Ryan can get his mojo (back?) next year with Turris.
    avatar
    SeawaySensFan
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 24754
    Age : 45
    Location : Cornwall, ON
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-12-02

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:56 pm

    Ryan has essentially had to adapt to Zijanedad being more of a shooting centre lacking a real playmaking touch. You could really unlock some value from Ryan with a playmaking LH Centre, or having a playmaking LW like Drouin...
    avatar
    PTFlea
    Co-Founder
    Co-Founder

    Number of posts : 54243
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-07-31

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:22 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:Ryan has essentially had to adapt to Zijanedad being more of a shooting centre lacking a real playmaking touch. You could really unlock some value from Ryan with a playmaking LH Centre, or having a playmaking LW like Drouin...

    I agree, he needs a center or winger like Turris.
    avatar
    tim1_2
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 16254
    Age : 34
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-01-07

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by tim1_2 on Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:40 pm

    I watched some of the Kings/Sharks game last night and you see guys like Toffoli, Couture, and Lucic flying around out there making things happen and you realize how much more we need from a guy like Bobby.
    avatar
    spader
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 10037
    Age : 37
    Location : La Loche, Saskatchewan
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2009-07-09

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by spader on Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:02 pm

    Michallica wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:I don't understand the concern over losing Dorion.  the next GM could be an external hire, and he will assemble his own scouting staff.  Lots of good drafting teams out there, it's not like Dorion is the GOAT of amateur scouting.  

    I don't think anyone is concerned in losing Dorion, we just don't see what other options are out there.  I will say this that sens have been great drafters but not great developers.  Exceptions are mark stone, mike hoffman, and erik karlsson (non-mediocre players).  

    Definitely need someone to fix up Bingo.

    I'm concerned about losing Dorion. I think he's one of the best scouts around. The Sens draft very well (lately), and I think he's a big reason for that. That doesn't mean he needs to be promoted. Maybe he's good in his current role and they should keep him there.

    DefenceWinsChampionships
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 1884
    Age : 87
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-05-23

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:08 pm

    Plain and simple I don't think that line works. Zbad lacks identity - he's a big center that doesn't use his size or speed well. Hoff is a speedy goal scorer and can't play defence. Ryan is a poor skater and passes the puck more than he shoots.

    I think Ryan and Pageau are a good combo and someone like MacArthur on the left would be a great second line.

    Drouin-Turris-Stone
    Mac-Pageau-Ryan
    Smith-Zib-Paul

    Sponsored content

    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 am