NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

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    Who will be the next Sens coach?

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    Total Votes: 12

    Ev
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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by Ev on Sun May 08, 2016 9:52 am

    Boudreau also flip flops his goalies every game and has never not had a team filled with at least two superstars. I'm glad we didn't get him seeing all the facts now. We need a winner not another Jacques

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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by tim1_2 on Sun May 08, 2016 10:09 am

    Well, the issue was money, so it was another case of Melnyk's budget. That's pretty much indisputable. I like that you blame it on "the market" though, lol.

    I don't care about missing out on Boudreau, but it's clear Melnyk still ain't willing to spend.

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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by Ev on Sun May 08, 2016 10:11 am

    If sens offered the exact same as Minnesota it still wouldn't be the same money. Our market is absolutely a factor just like how other Canadian markets outside of Toronto don't sign anybody of significance

    If I'm melnyk I'd ether spend on the players than a 61 year old playoff loser coach
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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by PTFlea on Sun May 08, 2016 10:16 am

    Gotta look at Yeo's coaching record on minny before getting too upset. 98 points and 100 points and over 40 wins those two years in the ultra competitive division with a barely above average roster.
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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by Hoags on Sun May 08, 2016 10:38 am

    He wanted to come here, he had all the reasons to come here. It's s bidding process. He's not going to take a job for less money anymore than I would. You want to be paid for what you're worth.

    Melnyk wants a Ferrari for the price of a Yugo.

    Cue up another mediocre coach because they fit the budget. More getting outshot every night, poor puck possession and relying on luck and the goalie to pull off a miracle every night.
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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by PTFlea on Sun May 08, 2016 10:52 am

    Hoags wrote:He wanted to come here, he had all the reasons to come here. It's s bidding process.  He's not going to take a job for less money anymore than I would. You want to be paid for what you're worth.

    Melnyk wants a Ferrari for the price of a Yugo.

    Cue up another mediocre coach because they fit the budget.  More getting outshot every night, poor puck possession and relying on luck and the goalie to pull off a miracle every night.

    You're pissed,  but you're not willing to give yeo any credit whatsoever?
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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by wprager on Sun May 08, 2016 12:04 pm

    It wasn't about money. If they were willing to give him a 3 year deal at the same money then I'd say that's long enough for a coach to prove he is worth extending. And if he got extended you can bet his 4th year he would have gotten a raise. So if Boudreau was confident that he could do what Cameron and MacLean could not then he would be better off, financially, to take the Ottawa position. And he would have been able to spend more time with his daughter and granddaughter.

    I was never sold on Boudreau because I honestly think his coaching record is a mirage. The Caps were the best team in a weak division and it showed every time they were in the playoffs (went to game 7 in the second round once, and got swept another time -- the rest were first round exits). And don't tell me that he turned a weak Ducks team into a contender. He took over a team that was struggling but still had Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Selanne, Koivu, Fowler, Visnovsky, etc. Selanne led the team with 66 points the year Boudreau replaced Carlyle which makes me think that their younger stars were simply underachieving. It was still a team with lots of good players.


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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by wprager on Sun May 08, 2016 12:05 pm

    Here's an interesting little tid-bit from Boudreau's wikipedia page:

    After being drafted in the third round, 42nd overall, by the Toronto Maple Leafs, Boudreau could not agree with Toronto on a contract and joined the Minnesota Fighting Saints of the WHA, making his professional debut in 1975. He played a single season for the Fighting Saints, scoring 3 goals and 6 assists over 30 games.


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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by Hoags on Sun May 08, 2016 12:24 pm

    wprager wrote:It wasn't about money.  If they were willing to give him a 3 year deal at the same money then I'd say that's long enough for a coach to prove he is worth extending.  And if he got extended you can bet his 4th year he would have gotten a raise.  So if Boudreau was confident that he could do what Cameron and MacLean could not then he would be better off, financially, to take the Ottawa position.  And he would have been able to spend more time with his daughter and granddaughter.

    I was never sold on Boudreau because I honestly think his coaching record is a mirage.  The Caps were the best team in a weak division and it showed every time they were in the playoffs (went to game 7 in the second round once, and got swept another time -- the rest were first round exits).  And don't tell me that he turned a weak Ducks team into a contender.  He took over a team that was struggling but still had Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, Selanne, Koivu, Fowler, Visnovsky, etc.  Selanne led the team with 66 points the year Boudreau replaced Carlyle which makes me think that their younger stars were simply underachieving.  It was still a team with lots of good players.

    So he took a good team over from a middling previous coach and had them hit their potential. Isn't that we want. You can't ask for more. He also did it consistently for years and got a division title each time. not a flash in the pan like MacLean or Cameron were here.

    None of the other candidates excite me. Some of them like Hartley or Carlyle actually worry me if they are getting any serious consideration.

    Yeo team had poor special teams and poor puck possession. Maybe it was the roster. But nothing there screams coaching genius to me.
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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by wprager on Sun May 08, 2016 12:27 pm

    From Garrioch's article, Boudreau was asking $3M/year and he got $2.75M from Minnesota. He says that Ottawa offered only 3 years but not clear if they offered $3M x 3 or (same as Minnesota) $2.75M x 3. Like I said before, if he got extended for a 4th year he'd get a raise for sure. I suppose if he doesn't do well enough to last the full term he'd still get paid in his 4th year.

    I don't see it said anywhere that he went back to the Sens and asked them to match the Wild offer. The timing of it doesn't make sense. It really looks like he got an offer from Ottawa (one offer, so there was little negotiating), took it to Minny and they topped it, and that was that. If he really wanted to go to Ottawa then wouldn't he have tried to negotiate?

    The belief is the Senators didn’t want to go to the fourth year, and the organization feels it has a strong list of candidates to choose from with Boudreau off the table.

    "The belief" -- that's very different from "sources say".

    While the belief was the Senators would have their shortlist in place by Friday, it isn’t clear whether that was the case or not because Boudreau didn’t wrap up his interview until the afternoon and it’s unknown whether or not Dorion spoke with former Calgary Flames’ coach Bob Hartley, who was fired Monday.

    Given that they were only supposed to have a "short-list" on Friday, they couldn't have had much of a salary negotiation done Thursday. So that offer that Garrioch "believes" happened would have been the very early opening of negotiations. Maybe the Sens said, categorically, that they would not give *any* coach a 4-year deal, simply because of their recent history with coaches.

    The Senators are doing things the right way by interviewing a number of different candidates and not rushing things. Boudreau jumped very quickly at the Minnesota offer without waiting around for any negotiation with Ottawa (which, I believe, had not even put in a firm offer, given that they were still finalizing their short list) and without even talking (at least not in person) with Winnipeg.

    My "belief" is that he simply did not want to coach in Canada (tax reasons?) or maybe he didn't want to go back to the Eastern Conference (odd, given his daughter/granddaughter location).

    This had nothing to do with Ottawa being unwilling to spend as much as Minnesota.


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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by wprager on Sun May 08, 2016 12:34 pm

    Hoags wrote:

    So he took a good team over from a middling previous coach and had them hit their potential.  Isn't that we want. You can't ask for more. He also did it consistently for years and got a division title each time.  not a flash in the pan like MacLean or Cameron were here.

    None of the other candidates excite me. Some of them like Hartley or Carlyle actually worry me if they are getting any serious consideration.

    Yeo team had poor special teams and poor puck possession.  Maybe it was the roster.  But nothing there screams coaching genius to me.

    That "middling" coach had a 34-22 post-season record with that team, and won a Cup. Boudreau's record was 24-19 and no Cup.

    Take a look at their respective records and tell me, with a straight face, that Boudreau was a better coach in Anaheim than Carlyle was.


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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by PTFlea on Sun May 08, 2016 1:18 pm

    Guy Boucher hired
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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by wprager on Sun May 08, 2016 1:34 pm

    Boucher coached Hoffman in juniors, apparently.


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    Ev
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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by Ev on Sun May 08, 2016 2:09 pm

    Hoags wrote:He wanted to come here, he had all the reasons to come here. It's s bidding process.  He's not going to take a job for less money anymore than I would. You want to be paid for what you're worth.

    Melnyk wants a Ferrari for the price of a Yugo.

    Cue up another mediocre coach because they fit the budget.  More getting outshot every night, poor puck possession and relying on luck and the goalie to pull off a miracle every night.

    He clearly didn't want to come to Ottawa. Pretty clearly
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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by Ev on Sun May 08, 2016 3:26 pm

    Friedman saying Crawford would be an option for assistant coach. I'm down
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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Sun May 08, 2016 4:45 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Michallica wrote:Facts coming out that we offered same salary but one less year in term...3 vs 4 years? Really that was the difference? I'm so disappointed and concerned in our management group if we couldn't close it because of one extra year. Diddle what era does melnyk think we live in? 3 vs 4 years....3 vs 4 years.....you Cussing kidding me?

    Facts don't support what you are saying.  From the timing of events, Boudreau got an offer from Ottawa then used that to get a better one from Minnesota.  He never went back to Ottawa to see if they would match.  This is DeBoer all over again.  He played Ottawa to get the offer from the team he really wanted.  

    Let's see what facts you have to support that statement.  Maybe Dorion tells us a bit more the next few days, but Garrioch says we weren't willing to go that term meaning that term was discussed with the sens and they didn't want to comply.  4-5 year contracts are becoming the standard now for experienced coaches.  Pretty sure if Julien would have been available we would have Cussed that up too by not offering more than 3 years.  

    Again mind Cussing boggling that the sens weren't willing to offer an awesome coach one extra year and that broke it all down.
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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun May 08, 2016 5:45 pm

    Michallica wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Michallica wrote:Facts coming out that we offered same salary but one less year in term...3 vs 4 years? Really that was the difference? I'm so disappointed and concerned in our management group if we couldn't close it because of one extra year. Diddle what era does melnyk think we live in? 3 vs 4 years....3 vs 4 years.....you Cussing kidding me?

    Facts don't support what you are saying.  From the timing of events, Boudreau got an offer from Ottawa then used that to get a better one from Minnesota.  He never went back to Ottawa to see if they would match.  This is DeBoer all over again.  He played Ottawa to get the offer from the team he really wanted.  

    Let's see what facts you have to support that statement.  Maybe Dorion tells us a bit more the next few days, but Garrioch says we weren't willing to go that term meaning that term was discussed with the sens and they didn't want to comply.  4-5 year contracts are becoming the standard now for experienced coaches.  Pretty sure if Julien would have been available we would have Cussed that up too by not offering more than 3 years.  

    Again mind Cussing boggling that the sens weren't willing to offer an awesome coach one extra year and that broke it all down.
    Because Melnyk doesn't want to pay him 2 extra year after the players force him out of a job after two years.

    I'm starting to doubt that Dorion will do anything to this team this summer like it was promised. They will fail to land a FA of any significance for our top6 and we will be told that the coaching will part the Red Sea.
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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

    Post by Ev on Sun May 08, 2016 5:55 pm

    Um if they don't add a free agent of significance it's not a big deal. Our team is pretty much fine as is. Free agents don't sign here and you shouldn't expect to get any big names.

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    Re: NHL Coaching Carousel 2016

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