Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

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    spader
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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by spader on Tue May 10, 2016 12:18 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I'm still divided about what we have here. The D is a work in progress and always an injury away from a disaster. Nothing good to look at on the third pairing. The top 6 is getting there but a really big question marks on the left side. the 3rd line is ok but it's likely going to drop off since there is no possible way zach smoth comes close to reproducing his success and we are going to need a replacement for Chiasson that can score in the right
    Hoffman is likely getting dealt and I really doubt we will get something back that can help us in the same respect.
    So no I'm not sure we have a better team to be honest.
    First off no team has a great third pairing.  Secondly, Zachary Smith certainly has a chance to come close to 20 again, he might not do it but there is a chance.  Lastly, how the hell do you know Hoffman is likely to be dealt, Dorion has no track record for you to base this on.  

    I actually assumed the comment about the third pairing was facetious.  The reason your top-pairing guys are supposed to be playing 25+ minutes is so that you don't have to rely on your third-pairing for more than 6-10 minutes, against the other team's worst line.  Any team whose biggest issue is to improve their third pairing is probably a Cup contender.

    Can you find a team that plays it's third pairing under 10 minutes?

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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by wprager on Tue May 10, 2016 12:50 pm

    spader wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I'm still divided about what we have here. The D is a work in progress and always an injury away from a disaster. Nothing good to look at on the third pairing. The top 6 is getting there but a really big question marks on the left side. the 3rd line is ok but it's likely going to drop off since there is no possible way zach smoth comes close to reproducing his success and we are going to need a replacement for Chiasson that can score in the right
    Hoffman is likely getting dealt and I really doubt we will get something back that can help us in the same respect.
    So no I'm not sure we have a better team to be honest.
    First off no team has a great third pairing.  Secondly, Zachary Smith certainly has a chance to come close to 20 again, he might not do it but there is a chance.  Lastly, how the hell do you know Hoffman is likely to be dealt, Dorion has no track record for you to base this on.  

    I actually assumed the comment about the third pairing was facetious.  The reason your top-pairing guys are supposed to be playing 25+ minutes is so that you don't have to rely on your third-pairing for more than 6-10 minutes, against the other team's worst line.  Any team whose biggest issue is to improve their third pairing is probably a Cup contender.

    Can you find a team that plays it's third pairing under 10 minutes?

    Chicago Blackhawks, 2014-2015, all the way to the Stanley Cup.

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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by Hoags on Tue May 10, 2016 1:29 pm

    SpezDispensed wrote:Perhaps Dorion always wanted to use analytics?  I wouldn't be surprised at all.  Murray was a good builder, but he didn't appear to use analytics the way some of the successful GMs were and perhaps he was stuck in a bit of a rut.

    I think we all knew we needed fresh blood in the GM position.

    I am more impressed we seem to be seeing some more progressive out of the box thinking. Murray would have never hired Boucher.

    As for analytics, Dorion already hired someone part time last year to crunch some numbers so hopefully they will go from there. Marc Crawford is a big proponent of it. Other teams are doing it, Sens should be at least investigating it. A team with a restricted budget should be looking for any possible advantage.

    Not doing analytics because it doesn't work in horse racing is not a valid reason.

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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by DirtyDave on Tue May 10, 2016 2:02 pm

    wprager wrote:
    spader wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I'm still divided about what we have here. The D is a work in progress and always an injury away from a disaster. Nothing good to look at on the third pairing. The top 6 is getting there but a really big question marks on the left side. the 3rd line is ok but it's likely going to drop off since there is no possible way zach smoth comes close to reproducing his success and we are going to need a replacement for Chiasson that can score in the right
    Hoffman is likely getting dealt and I really doubt we will get something back that can help us in the same respect.
    So no I'm not sure we have a better team to be honest.
    First off no team has a great third pairing.  Secondly, Zachary Smith certainly has a chance to come close to 20 again, he might not do it but there is a chance.  Lastly, how the hell do you know Hoffman is likely to be dealt, Dorion has no track record for you to base this on.  

    I actually assumed the comment about the third pairing was facetious.  The reason your top-pairing guys are supposed to be playing 25+ minutes is so that you don't have to rely on your third-pairing for more than 6-10 minutes, against the other team's worst line.  Any team whose biggest issue is to improve their third pairing is probably a Cup contender.

    Can you find a team that plays it's third pairing under 10 minutes?

    Chicago Blackhawks, 2014-2015, all the way to the Stanley Cup.

    Which player? 307 defencemen played in the nhl in 2014-15. Only only 7 players averaged less than 10 min of ice time.
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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Tue May 10, 2016 2:29 pm

    DirtyDave wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    spader wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I'm still divided about what we have here. The D is a work in progress and always an injury away from a disaster. Nothing good to look at on the third pairing. The top 6 is getting there but a really big question marks on the left side. the 3rd line is ok but it's likely going to drop off since there is no possible way zach smoth comes close to reproducing his success and we are going to need a replacement for Chiasson that can score in the right
    Hoffman is likely getting dealt and I really doubt we will get something back that can help us in the same respect.
    So no I'm not sure we have a better team to be honest.
    First off no team has a great third pairing.  Secondly, Zachary Smith certainly has a chance to come close to 20 again, he might not do it but there is a chance.  Lastly, how the hell do you know Hoffman is likely to be dealt, Dorion has no track record for you to base this on.  

    I actually assumed the comment about the third pairing was facetious.  The reason your top-pairing guys are supposed to be playing 25+ minutes is so that you don't have to rely on your third-pairing for more than 6-10 minutes, against the other team's worst line.  Any team whose biggest issue is to improve their third pairing is probably a Cup contender.

    Can you find a team that plays it's third pairing under 10 minutes?

    Chicago Blackhawks, 2014-2015, all the way to the Stanley Cup.

    Which player? 307 defencemen played in the nhl in 2014-15. Only only 7 players averaged less than 10 min of ice time.

    I think he meant whatever pairing rundblad was on. 6-10 might be low but I think his point was they played significantly less than the top 4 dmen.
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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by spader on Tue May 10, 2016 2:34 pm

    wprager wrote:
    spader wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I'm still divided about what we have here. The D is a work in progress and always an injury away from a disaster. Nothing good to look at on the third pairing. The top 6 is getting there but a really big question marks on the left side. the 3rd line is ok but it's likely going to drop off since there is no possible way zach smoth comes close to reproducing his success and we are going to need a replacement for Chiasson that can score in the right
    Hoffman is likely getting dealt and I really doubt we will get something back that can help us in the same respect.
    So no I'm not sure we have a better team to be honest.
    First off no team has a great third pairing.  Secondly, Zachary Smith certainly has a chance to come close to 20 again, he might not do it but there is a chance.  Lastly, how the hell do you know Hoffman is likely to be dealt, Dorion has no track record for you to base this on.  

    I actually assumed the comment about the third pairing was facetious.  The reason your top-pairing guys are supposed to be playing 25+ minutes is so that you don't have to rely on your third-pairing for more than 6-10 minutes, against the other team's worst line.  Any team whose biggest issue is to improve their third pairing is probably a Cup contender.

    Can you find a team that plays it's third pairing under 10 minutes?

    Chicago Blackhawks, 2014-2015, all the way to the Stanley Cup.

    Rozsival was on that pairing and averaged 17 mins.

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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by DirtyDave on Tue May 10, 2016 2:47 pm

    Runblad averaged nearly 13 min per in 49 games
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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by wprager on Tue May 10, 2016 2:57 pm

    DirtyDave wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    spader wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I'm still divided about what we have here. The D is a work in progress and always an injury away from a disaster. Nothing good to look at on the third pairing. The top 6 is getting there but a really big question marks on the left side. the 3rd line is ok but it's likely going to drop off since there is no possible way zach smoth comes close to reproducing his success and we are going to need a replacement for Chiasson that can score in the right
    Hoffman is likely getting dealt and I really doubt we will get something back that can help us in the same respect.
    So no I'm not sure we have a better team to be honest.
    First off no team has a great third pairing.  Secondly, Zachary Smith certainly has a chance to come close to 20 again, he might not do it but there is a chance.  Lastly, how the hell do you know Hoffman is likely to be dealt, Dorion has no track record for you to base this on.  

    I actually assumed the comment about the third pairing was facetious.  The reason your top-pairing guys are supposed to be playing 25+ minutes is so that you don't have to rely on your third-pairing for more than 6-10 minutes, against the other team's worst line.  Any team whose biggest issue is to improve their third pairing is probably a Cup contender.

    Can you find a team that plays it's third pairing under 10 minutes?

    Chicago Blackhawks, 2014-2015, all the way to the Stanley Cup.

    Which player? 307 defencemen played in the nhl in 2014-15. Only only 7 players averaged less than 10 min of ice time.
    2014-15 playoffs, Chicago had 4 D-men who averaged less than 10 minutes per game.  Timonen played 18 games averaging 8:39 per game.

    Plus don't take every thing I say so literally.  Point was your third pairing guys are not expected to play a lot or against tough competition.  You don't usually win or lose on the strength of your third pairing.  If you are losing because your third pairing sucks then you change them for  two new guys who don't.  There are enough of those players around and they typically don't cost a lot.


    Last edited by wprager on Tue May 10, 2016 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by tim1_2 on Tue May 10, 2016 3:15 pm

    Hoags wrote:

    As for analytics, Dorion already hired someone part time last year to crunch some numbers

    It was a University student they used part time. lol.
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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by spader on Tue May 10, 2016 3:21 pm

    wprager wrote:
    DirtyDave wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    spader wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I'm still divided about what we have here. The D is a work in progress and always an injury away from a disaster. Nothing good to look at on the third pairing. The top 6 is getting there but a really big question marks on the left side. the 3rd line is ok but it's likely going to drop off since there is no possible way zach smoth comes close to reproducing his success and we are going to need a replacement for Chiasson that can score in the right
    Hoffman is likely getting dealt and I really doubt we will get something back that can help us in the same respect.
    So no I'm not sure we have a better team to be honest.
    First off no team has a great third pairing.  Secondly, Zachary Smith certainly has a chance to come close to 20 again, he might not do it but there is a chance.  Lastly, how the hell do you know Hoffman is likely to be dealt, Dorion has no track record for you to base this on.  

    I actually assumed the comment about the third pairing was facetious.  The reason your top-pairing guys are supposed to be playing 25+ minutes is so that you don't have to rely on your third-pairing for more than 6-10 minutes, against the other team's worst line.  Any team whose biggest issue is to improve their third pairing is probably a Cup contender.

    Can you find a team that plays it's third pairing under 10 minutes?

    Chicago Blackhawks, 2014-2015, all the way to the Stanley Cup.

    Which player? 307 defencemen played in the nhl in 2014-15. Only only 7 players averaged less than 10 min of ice time.

    2014-15 playoffs, Chicago had 4 D-men who averaged less than 10 minutes per game.  Timonen played 18 games averaging 8:39 per game.

    Plus don't take every thing I say so literally.  Point was your third pairing guys are not expected to play a lot or against tough competition.  You don't usually win or lose on the strength of your third pairing.  If you are losing because your third pairing sucks then you change them for  two new guys who don't.  There are enough of those players around and they typically don't cost a lot.

    It seemed so specific that I made the mistake of assuming you knew what you were talking about. Sarcasm I do agree with your overall point that the third pairing is fairly easy to swap out, though.

    EDIT: I'm not sure what's going on with the post tags. Can an admin fix this reply?
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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by LeCaptain on Tue May 10, 2016 3:28 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:The more interview I hear with guy the more I'm starting to think I pegged him wrong. Then again these are just words and they have to translate into actions.
    He sure is saying all the right things.

    I'm not a big fan of analytics but I think a certain measure of use is good in evaluating the team.
    Could this be a new turn for Dorion with Boucher?

    Turned Subban into a superstar and made David Cussing Desharnais into an NHL-er.
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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by wprager on Tue May 10, 2016 3:41 pm

    Apologies for the nested quote tags.  In one of my replies I tried removing some of the nested quotes that I didn't think needed to be repeated so I did a little elective surgery.  I couldn't figure out (quickly enough) how to fix, so I just re-pasted the full post I was replying to so all the quote tags lined up.


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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by Hoags on Tue May 10, 2016 3:45 pm

    Benoit Groulx going to coach the Syracuse Crunch
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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue May 10, 2016 3:52 pm

    Hoags wrote:Benoit Groulx going to coach the Syracuse Crunch
    Thats disappointing. Wonder who winds up in bingo. Mike yeo? Sarcasm

    But seriously. Richardson still without a job last time I checked. Wonder if he'll wind up somewhere as an assistant. I think he lost his chance a couple years ago to get a shot at a head coaching NHL job. He might have to head to Europe or take an assistant job somewhere.

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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Tue May 10, 2016 3:54 pm

    Hoags wrote:Benoit Groulx going to coach the Syracuse Crunch

    That sucks. Tampa strikes again. Although we don't know if sens really wanted to Groulx for Bingo, but I'm sure it'll get the tinfoil hat plenty to chew on.
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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Tue May 10, 2016 4:28 pm

    I saw the press conference and gotta say Guy Boucher is great to listen to. Good public speaker, I can see why his interview must have been so impressive.

    On the flip side, I like Dorion but man he needs some coaching on public speaking. He's gotta stop reading from a paper, it's amateur. And he screws up his lines while reading too.
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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by Ev on Tue May 10, 2016 4:49 pm

    Meh any coach will do for bingo. Just hire Yeo
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    Re: Guy Boucher hired as Ottawa's head coach + Crawford signed as assistant

    Post by Ev on Tue May 10, 2016 4:50 pm

    Michallica wrote:I saw the press conference and gotta say Guy Boucher is great to listen to.  Good public speaker, I can see why his interview must have been so impressive.  

    On the flip side, I like Dorion but man he needs some coaching on public speaking.  He's gotta stop reading from a paper, it's amateur.  And he screws up his lines while reading too.

    Doesn't matter. Gm doesn't need To speak a lot

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