Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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    Hoff-Machine
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:25 pm

    We saved money and got better.....most GMs would be applauded for that. Sadly, not in Ottawa.

    Also, Pierre Dorion clarified yesterday on the radio why the salary structure for Hoffman was the way it was. Basically they're giving him arbitration salary for this season ($3.8M) and then UFA salary for the next 3 years ($5.6M) perceived as what he'd realistically receive on the open market as the player he is today. It's an interesting way of structuring a contract and makes pretty good sense.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by tim1_2 on Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:34 pm

    Listen, if the "budget" was no issue, and Dorion legitimately wanted to contend immediately, then there is plenty of cap space to bring in a hired gun or two for the 16/17 season to bolster the roster. The organization is still sending mixed messages about this.

    As I stated, though, I think the cap has been managed well, and the team is in a good position.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:02 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:Listen, if the "budget" was no issue, and Dorion legitimately wanted to contend immediately, then there is plenty of cap space to bring in a hired gun or two for the 16/17 season to bolster the roster.  The organization is still sending mixed messages about this.  

    As I stated, though, I think the cap has been managed well, and the team is in a good position.  

    I'm sure there is a budget, it's just not as close to the floor as ppl make it sound like. As folks around here have mentioned, after signing Ceci there will be about $4M in cap space leftover. Always need that for injuries during the season when calling up AHL players or making mid-season trades, if need be.

    Personally I want this space for when we need to re-sign Stone, and then the year after Karlsson. Pretty sure Methot and Anderson will be gone....maybe we make a pitch for good ol' mr. bishop?
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by spader on Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:05 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:Listen, if the "budget" was no issue, and Dorion legitimately wanted to contend immediately, then there is plenty of cap space to bring in a hired gun or two for the 16/17 season to bolster the roster.  The organization is still sending mixed messages about this.  

    As I stated, though, I think the cap has been managed well, and the team is in a good position.  

    That would assume that the Sens are either ready to contend now, or a "hired gun or two" away from contending right now. Of course, if the Sens aren't either contenders now or a piece from the remains of FA away from contending, then it doesn't make sense to throw dollars at Hudler or one of the other few guys available.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by spader on Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:14 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:Hoffman-Turris-Stone
    MacArthur-Brassard-Ryan
    Smith-Pageau-Lazar
    Pyatt/Blunden-Kelly-Neil

    Methot-Karlsson
    Phaneuf-Ceci
    Claesson/UFA-Wideman

    Looks good

    Anderson
    Im not a big a fan of that third line as it means smith being the same type of player he was last year which I don't believe he can be (cannot replicate that shot%) and lazar has to take a step up when I think he should be in the A.
    Also that second line is one hit away on Mac from being in trouble.
    That third line is average but whatever. It's a fourth line.that D is the best it's looked in a long time.

    No it doesn't - he doesn't have to score 20 goals to be a good third liner. Last year he was being used as a 2nd liner for a large portion of the season. Smith and Pageau are all third line players, so how exactly is it a fourth line? You must be expecting too much out of a third line because this is a very good third line. Lazar will also be improved but even if he is the same player, Smith and Pageau make it a good line.

    Also I don't buy into the theory of "being one hit away" from retirement for guys who have had concussions. It's not a concern for me. He's back 100% healthy so nobody should think he's at more risk than other players. If he does get injured, another player will step up or they make a trade.

    People who have had bad concussions a much more likely to get concussions. Concussion history definitely increases your concussion risk. Because science. You might hate mainstream opinions, but this isn't opinion.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by spader on Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:18 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I think Puempel starts L3 instead of Lazar. They will give him a chance to perform on a more offensive line at the start of the year. If it doesn't work out they send him down and that's it for him.

    Nick Paul will also start on L4. A line of Pau-Kelly-Lazar could end up being a very good two-way line.

    Phaneuf will be paired with Karlsson. My guess anyway.

    I can also see Sieloff getting a shot vs a UFA d-man next to Wideman

    I'd be pretty disappointed if the 3rd line was used for trial and error auditions but we should be used to that sort of crap by now.

    Sieloff looks promising to me solely from the scouting reports I've read.

    I would too. However, if a young player demonstrates that they belong there in training camp/exhibition, I'm all for it. The bottom line, as I'm sure you would agree, is that a professional hockey club's regular season shouldn't be used for auditions. Players should only play if they add value to a club.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:11 pm

    Hoffside wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:Listen, if the "budget" was no issue, and Dorion legitimately wanted to contend immediately, then there is plenty of cap space to bring in a hired gun or two for the 16/17 season to bolster the roster.  The organization is still sending mixed messages about this.  

    As I stated, though, I think the cap has been managed well, and the team is in a good position.  

    I'm sure there is a budget, it's just not as close to the floor as ppl make it sound like.  As folks around here have mentioned, after signing Ceci there will be about $4M in cap space leftover.  Always need that for injuries during the season when calling up AHL players or making mid-season trades, if need be.  

    Personally I want this space for when we need to re-sign Stone, and then the year after Karlsson.  Pretty sure Methot and Anderson will be gone....maybe we make a pitch for good ol' mr. bishop?
    Hold on... That's prags speculating on what Ceci is going to get. I expect he will be getting less. Let's not put the cart before the horse.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hoags on Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:40 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:Listen, if the "budget" was no issue, and Dorion legitimately wanted to contend immediately, then there is plenty of cap space to bring in a hired gun or two for the 16/17 season to bolster the roster.  The organization is still sending mixed messages about this.  

    As I stated, though, I think the cap has been managed well, and the team is in a good position.  

    I don't think there was anyone on the market that would made a significant difference, at least not one worth the money they were getting. Almost all big July 1st signings tend to be a bomb down the road. They added a cheap signing in Kelly which is good for the apparent lack of leadership in that room and how crappy the PK was. These smart under the radar signings make more impact than the big name ones IMO.

    The real question is the core of this team good enough to do damage in the postseason? They've been so inconsistent the past few years and so many coaches came and went I'd say it's awfully hard to assess this team.

    I am sure they will add via UFA and trades if this core shows true promise and goes far. If I was management I'd want to see some results from the current lineup before investing to put the team "over the top".

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:09 pm

    Hoags wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:Listen, if the "budget" was no issue, and Dorion legitimately wanted to contend immediately, then there is plenty of cap space to bring in a hired gun or two for the 16/17 season to bolster the roster.  The organization is still sending mixed messages about this.  

    As I stated, though, I think the cap has been managed well, and the team is in a good position.  

    I don't think there was anyone on the market that would made a significant difference, at least not one worth the money they were getting.  Almost all big July 1st signings tend to be a bomb down the road.  They added a cheap signing in Kelly which is good for the apparent lack of leadership in that room and how crappy the PK was.  These smart under the radar signings make more impact than the big name ones IMO.

    The real question is the core of this team good enough to do damage in the postseason?  They've been so inconsistent the past few years and so many coaches came and went I'd say it's awfully hard to assess this team.

    I am sure they will add via UFA and trades if this core shows true promise and goes far.  If I was management I'd want to see some results from the current lineup before investing to put the team "over the top".

    There's a bit of a catch 22 there, you want result but you don't want to add some significant pieces. (Brassard for Zib is adding but only marginally). I agree that you don't want to add some huge pieces that are gonna bust down the road but there was and is always a few good pieces. But the sens aren't interested. I think a Hudler can make us better and provide good scoring depth. A Brower would have been amazing and so would an Eriksson. Fact is we don't even try. It's win time is the message from the org but they rely way too much on maybes from unproven youth.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:39 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Hoffside wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:Listen, if the "budget" was no issue, and Dorion legitimately wanted to contend immediately, then there is plenty of cap space to bring in a hired gun or two for the 16/17 season to bolster the roster.  The organization is still sending mixed messages about this.  

    As I stated, though, I think the cap has been managed well, and the team is in a good position.  

    I'm sure there is a budget, it's just not as close to the floor as ppl make it sound like.  As folks around here have mentioned, after signing Ceci there will be about $4M in cap space leftover.  Always need that for injuries during the season when calling up AHL players or making mid-season trades, if need be.  

    Personally I want this space for when we need to re-sign Stone, and then the year after Karlsson.  Pretty sure Methot and Anderson will be gone....maybe we make a pitch for good ol' mr. bishop?
    Hold on... That's prags speculating on what Ceci is going to get. I expect he will be getting less. Let's not put the cart before the horse.

    He'll get minimum $3M, so at maximum the sens will have $5.5M in cap space. That puts us like middle of the pack as opposed to a bottom 5 or whatever we've been.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:18 pm

    Hoffside wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Hoffside wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:Listen, if the "budget" was no issue, and Dorion legitimately wanted to contend immediately, then there is plenty of cap space to bring in a hired gun or two for the 16/17 season to bolster the roster.  The organization is still sending mixed messages about this.  

    As I stated, though, I think the cap has been managed well, and the team is in a good position.  

    I'm sure there is a budget, it's just not as close to the floor as ppl make it sound like.  As folks around here have mentioned, after signing Ceci there will be about $4M in cap space leftover.  Always need that for injuries during the season when calling up AHL players or making mid-season trades, if need be.  

    Personally I want this space for when we need to re-sign Stone, and then the year after Karlsson.  Pretty sure Methot and Anderson will be gone....maybe we make a pitch for good ol' mr. bishop?
    Hold on... That's prags speculating on what Ceci is going to get. I expect he will be getting less. Let's not put the cart before the horse.

    He'll get minimum $3M, so at maximum the sens will have $5.5M in cap space.  That puts us like middle of the pack as opposed to a bottom 5 or whatever we've been.
    That's plenty of money to get a player for one or two years that would make us better than we are now. Worst case scenario we end up trading him if someone steps up. Of course that's counting we don't pick up a dud. I'd trust management to pick out good players to sign. We really missed out on Williams last year, and for the money he went for? Shish....
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:42 pm

    Matt Dumba signed to a 2-year, $5.1M contract ($2.35M 1st year, $2.75M 2nd year). Sucks for Ceci cuz that's a direct comparable (26 points for both players last season, 205 GP for Ceci vs 152 GP for Dumba). Add $500K to Ceci per year and that's probably going to be his contract.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:20 pm

    Hoffside wrote:Matt Dumba signed to a 2-year, $5.1M contract ($2.35M 1st year, $2.75M 2nd year).  Sucks for Ceci cuz that's a direct comparable (26 points for both players last season, 205 GP for Ceci vs 152 GP for Dumba).  Add $500K to Ceci per year and that's probably going to be his contract.
    Sounds and looks about right.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:30 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Hoffside wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:Listen, if the "budget" was no issue, and Dorion legitimately wanted to contend immediately, then there is plenty of cap space to bring in a hired gun or two for the 16/17 season to bolster the roster.  The organization is still sending mixed messages about this.  

    As I stated, though, I think the cap has been managed well, and the team is in a good position.  

    I'm sure there is a budget, it's just not as close to the floor as ppl make it sound like.  As folks around here have mentioned, after signing Ceci there will be about $4M in cap space leftover.  Always need that for injuries during the season when calling up AHL players or making mid-season trades, if need be.  

    Personally I want this space for when we need to re-sign Stone, and then the year after Karlsson.  Pretty sure Methot and Anderson will be gone....maybe we make a pitch for good ol' mr. bishop?
    Hold on... That's prags speculating on what Ceci is going to get. I expect he will be getting less. Let's not put the cart before the horse.

    So if he gets $3M instead of $4-5M then we have $5-6M cap space instead of $4M. Still doesn't give us all that much room. You have to keep $2M for injuries and then having $3-4M at the trade deadline doesn't buy you as much as it used to, since the deadline is earlier in the season than before.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:32 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    There's a bit of a catch 22 there, you want result but you don't want to add some significant pieces. (Brassard for Zib is adding but only marginally). I agree that you don't want to add some huge pieces that are gonna bust down the road but there was and is always a few good pieces. But the sens aren't interested. I think a Hudler can make us better and provide good scoring depth. A Brower would have been amazing and so would an Eriksson. Fact is we don't even try. It's win time is the message from the org but they rely way too much on maybes from unproven youth.

    It's a bit more than "marginal". He's a proven performer, especially playoffs, and he is a LH center when we have been in dire need of one for quite a while.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:33 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    That's plenty of money to get a player for one or two years that would make us better than we are now. Worst case scenario we end up trading him if someone steps up. Of course that's counting we don't pick up a dud. I'd trust management to pick out good players to sign. We really missed out on Williams last year, and for the money he went for? Shish....

    No, it really isn't. You have to leave $2M for injuries. That doesn't leave much.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:37 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    That's plenty of money to get a player for one or two years that would make us better than we are now. Worst case scenario we end up trading him if someone steps up. Of course that's counting we don't pick up a dud. I'd trust management to pick out good players to sign. We really missed out on Williams last year, and for the money he went for? Shish....

    No, it really isn't.  You have to leave $2M for injuries. That doesn't leave much.

    Don't forget someone goes to the minors in that scenario, so that opens another million give or take.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by spader on Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:47 pm

    Your very own Mark Stone is a finalist in the TSN Franchise Faceoff as possibly the best option for 2nd line winger in the league. 

    He's up against Kucherov, Kessel, and Wheeler. 

    He's not doing so great in the voting, but you can vote and help him out. 

    http://www.tsn.ca/franchise-faceoff

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