GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

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    PTFlea
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by PTFlea on Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:49 pm

    Hoff-Machine wrote:too much time spent in the defensive zone for my liking.  A some have mentioned, looked alot like last year.  

    Looks like we still need to upgrade our dmen.  I get the feeling phaneuf is getting too much faith put in him to stabilize that 2nd unit, and it might not work out.  Of course it's only game 1 but speed is the game and he looked quite slow out there.  

    The bottom pairing was atrocious.  Boro/Wideman is going to be bad and I hope they can figure out how to play better than they did because that was just not impressive at all.  I really wish they'd give Claesson a try again.

    Also, Diddle Auston Matthews and Toronto.

    Phaneuf was great last year, it's game 1 and he looked slow, but there's no reason to think he won't rebound.

    Too much time spent in the defensive zone was huge.  Boucher wanted it out in 7 seconds I think he said, last night it felt like 140 before we chipped the puck out at one point.  It was Cameron all over again, but I trust Boucher to correct that.

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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:18 pm

    PTFlea wrote:
    Hoff-Machine wrote:too much time spent in the defensive zone for my liking.  A some have mentioned, looked alot like last year.  

    Looks like we still need to upgrade our dmen.  I get the feeling phaneuf is getting too much faith put in him to stabilize that 2nd unit, and it might not work out.  Of course it's only game 1 but speed is the game and he looked quite slow out there.  

    The bottom pairing was atrocious.  Boro/Wideman is going to be bad and I hope they can figure out how to play better than they did because that was just not impressive at all.  I really wish they'd give Claesson a try again.

    Also, Diddle Auston Matthews and Toronto.

    Phaneuf was great last year, it's game 1 and he looked slow, but there's no reason to think he won't rebound.

    Too much time spent in the defensive zone was huge.  Boucher wanted it out in 7 seconds I think he said, last night it felt like 140 before we chipped the puck out at one point.  It was Cameron all over again, but I trust Boucher to correct that.

    You can't implement a new system without seeing the old system at work. Give it a few weeks and hopefully we'll see some of those bad habits corrected. That said, I noticed Ottawa was trying to make passes to players in full speed which was nice to see. Additionally, the Brass-Ryan, Turris-Stone combos looked really good.

    I thought the Pageau line was very ineffective which was unsurprising considering Varone and Pyatt were relatively invisible last night. I imagine the Varone honeymoon will be over by the end of the month and we'll see him go to Bingo in exchange for Lazar. I'd also like to see Dzingel play on the 3rd line and slide Pyatt down to the 4th. Nice to see Neil throw his body around but is his role ever unnecessary considering the pace of the game and size of the players now.

    I am not sure how to stabilize the D seeing that Chabot is a LD. We may see Claesson or Englund up here sooner than later. That 5/6 pairing was atrocious.

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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by PTFlea on Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:24 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:
    Hoff-Machine wrote:too much time spent in the defensive zone for my liking.  A some have mentioned, looked alot like last year.  

    Looks like we still need to upgrade our dmen.  I get the feeling phaneuf is getting too much faith put in him to stabilize that 2nd unit, and it might not work out.  Of course it's only game 1 but speed is the game and he looked quite slow out there.  

    The bottom pairing was atrocious.  Boro/Wideman is going to be bad and I hope they can figure out how to play better than they did because that was just not impressive at all.  I really wish they'd give Claesson a try again.

    Also, Diddle Auston Matthews and Toronto.

    Phaneuf was great last year, it's game 1 and he looked slow, but there's no reason to think he won't rebound.

    Too much time spent in the defensive zone was huge.  Boucher wanted it out in 7 seconds I think he said, last night it felt like 140 before we chipped the puck out at one point.  It was Cameron all over again, but I trust Boucher to correct that.

    You can't implement a new system without seeing the old system at work. Give it a few weeks and hopefully we'll see some of those bad habits corrected. That said, I noticed Ottawa was trying to make passes to players in full speed which was nice to see. Additionally, the Brass-Ryan, Turris-Stone combos looked really good.

    I thought the Pageau line was very ineffective which was unsurprising considering Varone and Pyatt were relatively invisible last night. I imagine the Varone honeymoon will be over by the end of the month and we'll see him go to Bingo in exchange for Lazar. I'd also like to see Dzingel play on the 3rd line and slide Pyatt down to the 4th. Nice to see Neil throw his body around but is his role ever unnecessary considering the pace of the game and size of the players now.

    I am not sure how to stabilize the D seeing that Chabot is a LD. We may see Claesson or Englund up here sooner than later. That 5/6 pairing was atrocious.

    I really liked Varone. I'm not necessarily arguing that he'll be jettisoned to Bingo, but I thought he was quite good. Creative, drove the play, made some smart decisions. Pyatt is a 4th liner through and through, I wish we could move Dzingel up there and put Pyatt on line 4.

    And yes, Neil was a factor, even though he only played 5 minutes. You need him to be physical like he was and not take penalties.
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by tim1_2 on Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:34 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Nice to see Neil throw his body around but is his role ever unnecessary considering the pace of the game and size of the players now.

    I get so sick of this dumb discussion every year.  Neil knocked out one of their defensemen early in the game with a huge hit, and threw a few more good checks that get players (especially young defenders like Zaitsev) thinking twice.  On top of that, he had a few decent scoring chances, and his line had a couple of the only sequences of actual pressure in the offensive zone.  Neil has adapted his game over the years and is still quite valuable as a 4th liner.  And you know that if anyone starts pushing around Karlsson or Turris or Stone or whoever that Neil will step the Diddle up and deal with it immediately.  The only other guy that might do that is Boro, and his position on the blue line is tenuous at best.


    Last edited by tim1_2 on Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:56 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Nice to see Neil throw his body around but is his role ever unnecessary considering the pace of the game and size of the players now.

    I get so sick of this dumb discussion every year.  Neil knocked out on of their defensemen early in the game with a huge hit, and threw a few more good checks that get players (especially young defenders like Zaitsev) thinking twice.  On top of that, he had a few decent scoring chances, and his line had a couple of the only sequences of actual pressure in the offensive zone.  Neil has adapted his game over the years and is still quite valuable as a 4th liner.  And you know that if anyone starts pushing around Karlsson or Turris or Stone or whoever that Neil will step the Diddle up and deal with it immediately.  The only other guy that might do that is Boro, and his position on the blue line is tenuous at best.
    Yeah personally I'd rather have Neil on the 4th than Boro on the blue line. At this point I'd rather have a forward deliver the hard checks than a dman. Less dangerous in terms of puck possession
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:02 pm

    Which brings it back to what kind of line-up I think we should ice for the habs game.
    Hoffman turris stone
    Smith/dzingel brass Ryan
    Smith dzingel pageau rotating body (stone/Ryan maybe turris)
    Then you have a true every line of Pyatt Kelly Neil

    Methot karlsson
    Phaneuf Ceci
    Chabot wideman
    Boro slides in when needed as the 7th D
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:03 pm

    I liked Varone as well and I think he should be tried at least on the line with Brass/Ryan. Smith was good too, but his jam is better suited with Pageau, that much is apparent to me.
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by tim1_2 on Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:05 pm

    I don't see any reason to take Smith off the Brassard/Ryan line. He looked fine there last night. I'd rather make Dzingel/Varone earn a promotion to the 2nd line.

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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:12 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Nice to see Neil throw his body around but is his role ever unnecessary considering the pace of the game and size of the players now.

    I get so sick of this dumb discussion every year.  Neil knocked out on of their defensemen early in the game with a huge hit, and threw a few more good checks that get players (especially young defenders like Zaitsev) thinking twice.  On top of that, he had a few decent scoring chances, and his line had a couple of the only sequences of actual pressure in the offensive zone.  Neil has adapted his game over the years and is still quite valuable as a 4th liner.  And you know that if anyone starts pushing around Karlsson or Turris or Stone or whoever that Neil will step the Diddle up and deal with it immediately.  The only other guy that might do that is Boro, and his position on the blue line is tenuous at best.
    Yeah personally I'd rather have Neil on the 4th than Boro on the blue line. At this point I'd rather have a forward deliver the hard checks than a dman. Less dangerous in terms of puck possession

    I agree. Neil has a role and he plays it well. The point I am making is that his role is becoming less and less significant as fighting league-wide is on the decline. Yes he is there to protect the players on the team and make the opposing players react when they see him coming. But couldn't a Buddy Robinson do that? Max McCormick? Guys who can kill penalties and bring something else to the table... I am not arguing that Neil isn't good at doing his job. I am arguing the fact that the role of an enforcer is quickly disappearing.

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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:14 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:I don't see any reason to take Smith off the Brassard/Ryan line.  He looked fine there last night.  I'd rather make Dzingel/Varone earn a promotion to the 2nd line.

    He looked okay but think he's better suited playing with Pageau in a hybrid scoring/shutdown line
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by tim1_2 on Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:39 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Nice to see Neil throw his body around but is his role ever unnecessary considering the pace of the game and size of the players now.

    I get so sick of this dumb discussion every year.  Neil knocked out on of their defensemen early in the game with a huge hit, and threw a few more good checks that get players (especially young defenders like Zaitsev) thinking twice.  On top of that, he had a few decent scoring chances, and his line had a couple of the only sequences of actual pressure in the offensive zone.  Neil has adapted his game over the years and is still quite valuable as a 4th liner.  And you know that if anyone starts pushing around Karlsson or Turris or Stone or whoever that Neil will step the Diddle up and deal with it immediately.  The only other guy that might do that is Boro, and his position on the blue line is tenuous at best.
    Yeah personally I'd rather have Neil on the 4th than Boro on the blue line. At this point I'd rather have a forward deliver the hard checks than a dman. Less dangerous in terms of puck possession

    I agree. Neil has a role and he plays it well. The point I am making is that his role is becoming less and less significant as fighting league-wide is on the decline. Yes he is there to protect the players on the team and make the opposing players react when they see him coming. But couldn't a Buddy Robinson do that? Max McCormick? Guys who can kill penalties and bring something else to the table... I am not arguing that Neil isn't good at doing his job. I am arguing the fact that the role of an enforcer is quickly disappearing.

    And I'm saying that his role extends beyond the typical "enforcer" role. Toronto had to play the game with 5 D because of a big hit he delivered early on. And I'm not saying that he should be going around looking to injure opponents, but that kind of sustained physical play has more effects than just the odd injury. Plus, the 4th line actually generated some scoring opportunities and o-zone pressure.
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:42 pm

    brassard/ryan don't need smith on their line.....pageau does. I don't know if that logic registers with everyone here but it makes a ton of sense to me. Smith isn't defining that line, I don't get the opposition to putting him back with Pageau.
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by PTFlea on Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:29 pm

    Hoff-Machine wrote:brassard/ryan don't need smith on their line.....pageau does.  I don't know if that logic registers with everyone here but it makes a ton of sense to me.  Smith isn't defining that line, I don't get the opposition to putting him back with Pageau.

    It's a catch-22 in my eyes.

    The good: Smith definitely created space, got to the net, won board battles, dug the puck out and got it to the talent. No question he did that, I was relatively impressed pretty much every shift.

    The bad: You have no definition of what your third line should be. With Smith and Pageau you have a duo - and the NHL is all about duos. Turris/Stone (with Hoffman being a wicked third piece), Brassard/Ryan, Pageau/Smith.

    I will say that I was very pleasantly surprised with Smith on that line though. And I also really liked Varone, but until Varone or Dzingel or whoever starts producing...it doesn't help Pageau that much.
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by PTFlea on Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:34 pm

    https://twitter.com/SunDoniB/status/786624228510490624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    Don Brennan
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    Boucher says Karlsson and Tom Pyatt were #sens best players defensively 1 on 1 vs Leafs
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:06 pm

    PTFlea wrote:https://twitter.com/SunDoniB/status/786624228510490624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    Don Brennan
    ‏@SunDoniB
    Boucher says Karlsson and Tom Pyatt were #sens best players defensively 1 on 1 vs Leafs

    Good to see "Pyes" Pyatt get some love.
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:06 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Nice to see Neil throw his body around but is his role ever unnecessary considering the pace of the game and size of the players now.

    I get so sick of this dumb discussion every year.  Neil knocked out on of their defensemen early in the game with a huge hit, and threw a few more good checks that get players (especially young defenders like Zaitsev) thinking twice.  On top of that, he had a few decent scoring chances, and his line had a couple of the only sequences of actual pressure in the offensive zone.  Neil has adapted his game over the years and is still quite valuable as a 4th liner.  And you know that if anyone starts pushing around Karlsson or Turris or Stone or whoever that Neil will step the Diddle up and deal with it immediately.  The only other guy that might do that is Boro, and his position on the blue line is tenuous at best.
    Yeah personally I'd rather have Neil on the 4th than Boro on the blue line. At this point I'd rather have a forward deliver the hard checks than a dman. Less dangerous in terms of puck possession

    I agree. Neil has a role and he plays it well. The point I am making is that his role is becoming less and less significant as fighting league-wide is on the decline. Yes he is there to protect the players on the team and make the opposing players react when they see him coming. But couldn't a Buddy Robinson do that? Max McCormick? Guys who can kill penalties and bring something else to the table... I am not arguing that Neil isn't good at doing his job. I am arguing the fact that the role of an enforcer is quickly disappearing.

    And I'm saying that his role extends beyond the typical "enforcer" role.  Toronto had to play the game with 5 D because of a big hit he delivered early on.  And I'm not saying that he should be going around looking to injure opponents, but that kind of sustained physical play has more effects than just the odd injury.  Plus, the 4th line actually generated some scoring opportunities and o-zone pressure.
    I agree. Neil isn't just an enforcer, he makes it very hard to play against as he also does deliver some really good hits and is good on a fourth line role. For now. The minute he can't keep up with the pace is when he'll be done.
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:08 pm

    Hoff-Machine wrote:brassard/ryan don't need smith on their line.....pageau does.  I don't know if that logic registers with everyone here but it makes a ton of sense to me.  Smith isn't defining that line, I don't get the opposition to putting him back with Pageau.
    I tend to agree with this view. I'd prefer smith on the third.
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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:10 pm

    PTFlea wrote:https://twitter.com/SunDoniB/status/786624228510490624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    Don Brennan
    ‏@SunDoniB
    Boucher says Karlsson and Tom Pyatt were #sens best players defensively 1 on 1 vs Leafs
    Still would look better on the fourth line.

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    Re: GDT - Game #1: Leafs @ Sens, Oct 12, 2016, 7pm

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