Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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    Oglethorpe
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:30 pm

    If they had won I think the team would be in Quebec City before the rink was built.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:32 pm

    This market is bad, can't even sell out the home opener, I wouldn't spend more if I was the owner.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:47 pm

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:I'd love him to sell the team.

    Oh yeah? Who's buying?!
    I would imagine canadian tire would investigate.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:46 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:This market is bad, can't even sell out the home opener, I wouldn't spend more if I was the owner.  
    Because the owner's been pinching the team for too long.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:45 am

    PTFlea wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:I'd love him to sell the team.

    Oh yeah? Who's buying?!
    I would imagine canadian tire would investigate.

    You have a vivid imagination.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by tim1_2 on Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:13 am

    Anyone thinking Melnyk is going to sell the team now is living in a dream world. He won the bid for Lebreton and now is counting down the days until he can move the team there and start making more money.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:37 am

    tim1_2 wrote:Anyone thinking Melnyk is going to sell the team now is living in a dream world.  He won the bid for Lebreton and now is counting down the days until he can move the team there and start making more money.

    It's really quite funny. Laugh1
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by tim1_2 on Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:52 am

    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:Anyone thinking Melnyk is going to sell the team now is living in a dream world.  He won the bid for Lebreton and now is counting down the days until he can move the team there and start making more money.

    It's really quite funny. Laugh1

    The unfortunate thing here is that if attendance doesn't improve in the coming years, we likely won't see him spending to the cap before the team moves. Time will tell.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:53 am

    Flo The Action wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:Mac is the depth they will be adding in the bottom 6. What they need is to add someone in the top 6.
    It's freaking obvious, why it's not to them is ridiculous, almost insulting. It's almost as if they are satisfied being an average team. And as the season average will turn into mediocre.

    You act as if it's easy to just add a top 6 forward.  Also, they can't afford to take on more salary, especially given that they'll be paying Mac soon (I assume he's been covered by insurance). This is still a young team...A little bit of patience is required here. Dorion's not shy to make deals, but he's gotta wait for the right ones. Do you see other teams making a ton of trades right now?

    I think it could be easier than it is for us. We do have cap space but we have a cheapskate of an owner that refuses to take on salary. I think he's the biggest imparement to this team. We have a first round pick to move, we have prospects and player. There's starting to be high caliber players available.

    The problem is we aren't playing a levelled field because of ownership. We'll likely never win because of this and we haven't yet, but we could be looking to lose karlsson if this is how we operate. Why on earth should he stay with the sens and waste his career when we have an owner that won't put all allowable resources on the table? I won't blame him if he leaves but I'll make sure to voice my opinion before then on the sens platforms of my displeasure and how I will not give them a penny until they change their operations.
    As. U have as it sucks for the players maybe not going to games is the only way fans get to express their distaste for how this team is being run.

    Listen, I like to trash Eugene as much as anybody here, but there's no reason to suddenly hit the panic button after a loss to the Leafs in January.  Like I said, no one is making trades right now.  Give it another two months.

    This isn't the panic button. This is the  sell button for Eugene to press. It's the button that's been painfully obvious he should be pressing for years now. It's also the button that should have been pressed when the org couldn't go through a rebuild because they constantly have to try to make the playoffs to make enough money. We're going to continue to be a mediocre team until financially things change here.

    I do not believe that when the time is right to make trades and trades are happening that we will be in on the right ones because of these financial constraints.

    This whole dialogue that this team is in win mode now only works if it has the proper backing. I had no problem waiting things out a little longer but this isn't what the org placed itself into doing. It's like we have one foot in and one foot out. And that foot out is handcuffed.

    It's hard to really comment on this. I have heard from a friend who is close to some players that the 'cheap' mentality is evident in the locker room and the guys aren't motivated to compete the same way as say the Rangers or Canadiens. That said, the Sens do spend money. They just don't spend it well.

    Between Ryan, Phaneuf, and Mac (injured) they have $18.9M tied up in salaries. The way these guys are playing they should be making significantly less. Probably $12M combined. If we want to compare, Zac Smith makes around $1.9M per year. Smith has 18 points. Bobby Ryan has 16 points and makes almost 4 times his salary. In theory, Ryan's output should be at least 2 times that of Smith. If Ryan had 16 goals and 32 points, no one would be complaining. Fact is, he's grossly underperforming and was supposed to be a 30 goal scorer. At this rate, we'll be lucky if he hits 15 by the end of the season.

    Defencemen are harder to do this analysis on, and the Phaneuf trade ended up seeing Ottawa shed Greening, Cowen, and Michalek. So while we're overpaying for Phaneuf, it had a trickle-down effect on other areas. It opened up roster spaces, we moved some pretty bad contracts, etc. So while he's overpaid by probably $3M per year, he's allowing us to playing Dzingel, Lazar and Wideman who are much lower than Michalek, Greening and Cowen. So he's worth it in the short-term.

    MacArthur (if healthy) would have at least 20 points at this point. Our team would be infinitely better. We'd have 3 really good lines. It's just tough luck that he's played half a dozen games or whatever since he signed his big deal. But it's money tied up right now that I'd have a hard time spending too knowing he's trying to come back.

    We also lost Spezza, Heatley, Redden, Chara, and Bishop for nothing. And we lost the Ryan trade. I think this is what really hurt us. Big trade chips and we got nothing back. Trades are how we have to bring in big name players because we are not an attractive place to play. That's why the team tries to bring in local talent. So yes, I think Dorion needs to hit a homerun with a trade (Duchene for Ceci, Lazar and our 1st) but I think Melnyk has reason to be pissed and not want to spend. While people praise what Murray had done for this team, he's really made some bone-head trades over his tenure as GM.

    Ottawa is also paying Stone, Smith, Karlsson, Turris, well under market value. So while we can add players, Stone is going to get a huge raise as are Turris and Karlsson when we re-sign them.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:35 am

    Geez, I wouldn't look too far in the future right now.  Turris,  Karlsson,  Stone are all coming up at the same time as brassard is coming off if we decide to let him go, Ryan can be moved by then even if for nothing, Phaneuf will be at the end.

    Too many moving parts.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:16 pm

    PTFlea wrote:Geez, I wouldn't look too far in the future right now.  Turris,  Karlsson,  Stone are all coming up at the same time as brassard is coming off if we decide to let him go, Ryan can be moved by then even if for nothing, Phaneuf will be at the end.

    Too many moving parts.

    The point I am making is that Melnyk is spending. Our management hasn't spent wisely in terms of bringing people in from outside of the organization. In all honesty, I'd be trying to bring in Duchene. We'd be the deepest team down the middle and would send a message to Karlsson that we're here to compete.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:39 pm

    A lot of teams have the same bad contracts but they are able to get out of them by spending more (buyouts). Sens aren't able to, or aren't willing to, spend more. We took on Phaneuf only because we got rid of Cowen and Greening and Michalek. We took on Ryan because we lost Alfie. We lucked out with Turris and Stone but their pay day is coming. We were lucky Subban took the short bridge and didn't sign his big contract until after Karlsson already signed long-term but, as with the others, he will be hitting pay-day soon enough.

    Before Ryan we had Cowen/Greening and, to a lesser extent, Michalek. Before that it was Phillips. Before that Redden. And so on. I don't really know if our management has been better than or worse than other teams at giving out bad contracts. Because this is Ottawa we have no choice but pay too much or for too long. And because we are owned by Melnyk the mistakes are kept around longer than with other teams.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:46 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:Anyone thinking Melnyk is going to sell the team now is living in a dream world.  He won the bid for Lebreton and now is counting down the days until he can move the team there and start making more money.

    Going to Lebreton will drive up the value of his team I think. Not entirely out of the realm to think once construction begins, season ticket base increases, the value will be at an all-time high for the Senators and that might be the time for Melnyk to make some coin on the team via a Sale.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:49 pm

    wprager wrote:A lot of teams have the same bad contracts but they are able to get out of them by spending more (buyouts).  Sens aren't able to, or aren't willing to, spend more.  We took on Phaneuf only because we got rid of Cowen and Greening and Michalek.  We took on Ryan because we lost Alfie.  We lucked out with Turris and Stone but their pay day is coming.  We were lucky Subban took the short bridge and didn't sign his big contract until after Karlsson already signed long-term but, as with the others, he will be hitting pay-day soon enough.

    Before Ryan we had Cowen/Greening and, to a lesser extent, Michalek.  Before that it was Phillips.  Before that Redden.  And so on.  I don't really know if our management has been better than or worse than other teams at giving out bad contracts.  Because this is Ottawa we have no choice but pay too much or for too long.  And because we are owned by Melnyk the mistakes are kept around longer than with other teams.

    Exactly. I couldn't agree more. So to rectify this, we need to either trade bad contract for bad contract and hope for the best -or- trade players signed to decent term contracts for prospects on ELC's or bridge contracts to counter-balance the bad contracts. So given this theory, Duchene doesn't make sense but Ceci's value is high to a team like Colorado, we have have a mid 1st rd draft pick to trade in a weak draft, and who knows maybe Lazar in Colorado will be better?

    Hoffman-Duchene-Ryan
    Smith-Brassard-Stone
    Mac-Turris-White
    Dzingel-Pageau-Pyatt
    Extra: Kelly, Neil

    Methot-Karlsson
    Phaneuf-Wideman
    Claesson-Boro
    Extra: Chabot, Englund

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:53 pm

    I am also not sure if it was already discussed but MacArthur missed practice Friday afternoon. He had been practicing all week with the team and was supposed to have gone a rigorous physical test per the concussion protocol at some point last week.... I guess we'll be hearing sooner than later if he's coming back or not.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:39 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:
    SeawaySensFan wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:Anyone thinking Melnyk is going to sell the team now is living in a dream world.  He won the bid for Lebreton and now is counting down the days until he can move the team there and start making more money.

    It's really quite funny. Laugh1

    The unfortunate thing here is that if attendance doesn't improve in the coming years, we likely won't see him spending to the cap before the team moves.  Time will tell.

    That's exactly my fears. Ottawa fans are suckered into it because there is a big payday for Melnyk now in sight once the new developments are done. There is no way he's going to sell until he's cashed out on all of that.

    We could easily have to tighten our belts for the next 10 years and dwell in mediocrity save we get tremedois return on our drafting.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:47 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:Mac is the depth they will be adding in the bottom 6. What they need is to add someone in the top 6.
    It's freaking obvious, why it's not to them is ridiculous, almost insulting. It's almost as if they are satisfied being an average team. And as the season average will turn into mediocre.

    You act as if it's easy to just add a top 6 forward.  Also, they can't afford to take on more salary, especially given that they'll be paying Mac soon (I assume he's been covered by insurance). This is still a young team...A little bit of patience is required here. Dorion's not shy to make deals, but he's gotta wait for the right ones. Do you see other teams making a ton of trades right now?

    I think it could be easier than it is for us. We do have cap space but we have a cheapskate of an owner that refuses to take on salary. I think he's the biggest imparement to this team. We have a first round pick to move, we have prospects and player. There's starting to be high caliber players available.

    The problem is we aren't playing a levelled field because of ownership. We'll likely never win because of this and we haven't yet, but we could be looking to lose karlsson if this is how we operate. Why on earth should he stay with the sens and waste his career when we have an owner that won't put all allowable resources on the table? I won't blame him if he leaves but I'll make sure to voice my opinion before then on the sens platforms of my displeasure and how I will not give them a penny until they change their operations.
    As. U have as it sucks for the players maybe not going to games is the only way fans get to express their distaste for how this team is being run.

    Listen, I like to trash Eugene as much as anybody here, but there's no reason to suddenly hit the panic button after a loss to the Leafs in January.  Like I said, no one is making trades right now.  Give it another two months.

    This isn't the panic button. This is the  sell button for Eugene to press. It's the button that's been painfully obvious he should be pressing for years now. It's also the button that should have been pressed when the org couldn't go through a rebuild because they constantly have to try to make the playoffs to make enough money. We're going to continue to be a mediocre team until financially things change here.

    I do not believe that when the time is right to make trades and trades are happening that we will be in on the right ones because of these financial constraints.

    This whole dialogue that this team is in win mode now only works if it has the proper backing. I had no problem waiting things out a little longer but this isn't what the org placed itself into doing. It's like we have one foot in and one foot out. And that foot out is handcuffed.

    It's hard to really comment on this. I have heard from a friend who is close to some players that the 'cheap' mentality is evident in the locker room and the guys aren't motivated to compete the same way as say the Rangers or Canadiens. That said, the Sens do spend money. They just don't spend it well.

    Between Ryan, Phaneuf, and Mac (injured) they have $18.9M tied up in salaries. The way these guys are playing they should be making significantly less. Probably $12M combined. If we want to compare, Zac Smith makes around $1.9M per year. Smith has 18 points. Bobby Ryan has 16 points and makes almost 4 times his salary. In theory, Ryan's output should be at least 2 times that of Smith. If Ryan had 16 goals and 32 points, no one would be complaining. Fact is, he's grossly underperforming and was supposed to be a 30 goal scorer. At this rate, we'll be lucky if he hits 15 by the end of the season.

    Defencemen are harder to do this analysis on, and the Phaneuf trade ended up seeing Ottawa shed Greening, Cowen, and Michalek. So while we're overpaying for Phaneuf, it had a trickle-down effect on other areas. It opened up roster spaces, we moved some pretty bad contracts, etc. So while he's overpaid by probably $3M per year, he's allowing us to playing Dzingel, Lazar and Wideman who are much lower than Michalek, Greening and Cowen. So he's worth it in the short-term.

    MacArthur (if healthy) would have at least 20 points at this point. Our team would be infinitely better. We'd have 3 really good lines. It's just tough luck that he's played half a dozen games or whatever since he signed his big deal. But it's money tied up right now that I'd have a hard time spending too knowing he's trying to come back.

    We also lost Spezza, Heatley, Redden, Chara, and Bishop for nothing. And we lost the Ryan trade. I think this is what really hurt us. Big trade chips and we got nothing back. Trades are how we have to bring in big name players because we are not an attractive place to play. That's why the team tries to bring in local talent. So yes, I think Dorion needs to hit a homerun with a trade (Duchene for Ceci, Lazar and our 1st) but I think Melnyk has reason to be pissed and not want to spend. While people praise what Murray had done for this team, he's really made some bone-head trades over his tenure as GM.

    Ottawa is also paying Stone, Smith, Karlsson, Turris, well under market value. So while we can add players, Stone is going to get a huge raise as are Turris and Karlsson when we re-sign them.
    I think so too that how the team is spending is being reflected in attitudes on the team. But also every team makes bad trades. So we can't say Melnyk should be pissed. His job is to support the moves management has made and to give them the means to repair the, or to make them make the best situation out of them. We have to appreciate that Dorion might be trying to move Ryan as it may become an even bigger burden down the road. It might even come to the point where the best solution would be to buy him out. The problem there is cheapskate Melnyk won't do it. That is money lost and he won't take on that negative spending.

    He puts all the emphasis on management having to dig itself out without giving them a helping hand. Sometimes it's the owner that has to take a hit for some of the bad work that the management hes hired does.
    And if it means spending more in some seasons to make us more competitive then so be it.
    We will have to give raises to turris, stone and karlsson. That will eat away at the cap space but that space is likely to go up as well.
    I just hope we aren't paying 4 mill per season for 5 years for a guy like smith who will likely see 3rd or 4rth line duties once some of our prospects graduate.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:48 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:Geez, I wouldn't look too far in the future right now.  Turris,  Karlsson,  Stone are all coming up at the same time as brassard is coming off if we decide to let him go, Ryan can be moved by then even if for nothing, Phaneuf will be at the end.

    Too many moving parts.

    The point I am making is that Melnyk is spending. Our management hasn't spent wisely in terms of bringing people in from outside of the organization. In all honesty, I'd be trying to bring in Duchene. We'd be the deepest team down the middle and would send a message to Karlsson that we're here to compete.

    I think that's he correct move also. For all the points you're noting

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