Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

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    Hoff-Machine
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Hoff-Machine on Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:50 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Hoff-Machine wrote:The argument of 'this was happening even before trump' is the most idiotic argument I keep hearing...racism is everywhere, even in Canada. Yes you can't compare the levels, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You now have a world leader, endorsed by the KKK, and all the racist/bigot/xenophobic Americans are rejoicing because they feel it's acceptable to attack the minorities. This is already happening and increasing around America.

    Ask me, I live here now and even though I"m in California (thank god), there's still a black cloud everyone feels over here generally and anticipating more hate crimes. Forget Trump's policies and all that stuff, Flo's absolutely correct when he says that America's true underbelly is shown. Take a look at county votes for republican vs democrats and you will see even from Obama's elections it was mostly all red across the country. Big metropolitan areas with educated ppl think logically, small towns and counties think like bigots, and they're starting to infiltrate and teach kids it's ok to tell any colored person to go back to his country (i am a person of color).

    So Ev, how about you get off YOUR high horse and take your own advise by shutting up?


    I'm not on a high horse. At all. That's the big difference. I'm asking people to give somebody a chance and stop being salty that their preferred candidate lost. im asking people tos top overreacting and stop oversensationalizjng everything about trump and his party. I know that at the end of four years, nothing greatly positive or negative will have happened. For the common person, it makes zero difference who is in charge of the government. It was the same here for people who complained about Harper.

    Immigrants also doesn't mean people of colour. It can be anybody. I think it's very fair to not want ant illegal immigrants in your country and I think it's fair to at least monitor people coming to your country from terrorist controllled areas.

    I agree, I think the doom and gloom of people thinking the country will be in shambles is a reach. I think even the muslim ban will never come to fruition. We have to remember that even the republican senate is not 100% behind Trump. Just because he wants to pass some laws doesn't mean it will work. Republicans big agenda is Obama care, and that's the only major change that will take place within the 4 years IMO. By then either Trump will be out or will get knocked out in the next election.

    And yes to the educated ppl like you and I, immigrants he refers to are the illegals and yes something should be done about that. However, to Flo's point, the near majority of this country has been proven to be uneducated and extremely short sighted and those are the folks that are going to start hate crimes. They will look at muslims, or any person of color and attack them. This is the point ppl aren't getting. Now it's ok for these morons to come out and display their hate because they think trump condones it too. This country went from being on the path of progression to retrograde. I think that's the most disheartening. That's why ppl are up in arms and reacting the way they are. As much as we may want to give him a chance, you can't possibly accept his methods to appeal to lowest common denominator to get to the top. Might as well start applying for jobs without having any relevant experience....let's see how the stock of a major company reacts to hiring a completely unqualified CEO.

    Democrats f'd up with Hillary Clinton as their rep. What concerns me also is his views on guns and climate change.

    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:Anyway....it's too much idiocy to even bother with, let's see how he does, what choice do we have?
    Take a stand. That's the choice we have. Make yourself heard. And let our prime minister know we want him to bring these problems up with every chance he will have to deal with this idiot.

    I remember a time when under the last liberal leadership where we couldn't meet with China without bringing up their shady human rights record.

    Trudeau doesn't have time to even meet with trump. He'll be too busy taking selfie and walking in pride parades

    Now that we can agree on Laugh1

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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:06 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:You act like these things never happened before ever in America. News flash, this would happen under any president. If you think trump condones stuff like that, you're brainwashed by the media and hippies who tweet about crap like that.

    You also have poor facts. He doesn't want to get rid of immigrants. It's illegals he wants to get rid of, which is 100% correct. He also wants to build inner cities to make poor people and minority lives better. Wow he's literally hitler. Who gives a duck about the black lives matter group as they were complete challenged from the get go. They don't actually care about improving black lives, they simply hate on other groups. Hmm kinda what people say trump does.

    Your stance of "I'm right, you're wrong and don't get it" is unbelievably ignorant. Get off your high horse, you're a 40 year old Canadian, you're not an expert on American politics. To suggest that everyone who voted for him is a an idiot, uneducated, bigot, etc is completely unfair and insulting.

    I didn't care who won, I'm not affected by this in any way. I'm just sick of seeing Canadians and other people on their high horse trying to act like they know everytning about the election and acting like their Dung don't stink. people need to get a grip if they think trump as president will be any different than the last president and the one before that.
    And another thing. I'm majoring in international business, I'm almost done actually. What do you think half my classes are on? International economics. What do you think we mostly focus on? Of course I have an understanding of American economics! diddles sake.

    Lol typical person who thinks they know everything because they studied it in school. Guess what, I completed a business degree myself. I'm not claiming to be an expert.
    big difference. my degree had 4 classes in poli-sci touching on international politics. i had one religion class touching on globalization and its impact on religion, i had 5 classes that were economics classes. i know what a typical business degree looks like and they don't shape tthem the way i shaped mine. also, the regular biz degree 90 credits. mine 120. so yeah. i did learn a lot more than the average degree. and btw, i have 20 years before going back to school where i have devoted a large portion of my life to social justice and environmental issues and the policies that drive it. so excuse me if i think i have a good idea of what i'm talking about.

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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Ev on Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:11 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:You act like these things never happened before ever in America. News flash, this would happen under any president. If you think trump condones stuff like that, you're brainwashed by the media and hippies who tweet about crap like that.

    You also have poor facts. He doesn't want to get rid of immigrants. It's illegals he wants to get rid of, which is 100% correct. He also wants to build inner cities to make poor people and minority lives better. Wow he's literally hitler. Who gives a duck about the black lives matter group as they were complete challenged from the get go. They don't actually care about improving black lives, they simply hate on other groups. Hmm kinda what people say trump does.

    Your stance of "I'm right, you're wrong and don't get it" is unbelievably ignorant. Get off your high horse, you're a 40 year old Canadian, you're not an expert on American politics. To suggest that everyone who voted for him is a an idiot, uneducated, bigot, etc is completely unfair and insulting.

    I didn't care who won, I'm not affected by this in any way. I'm just sick of seeing Canadians and other people on their high horse trying to act like they know everytning about the election and acting like their Dung don't stink. people need to get a grip if they think trump as president will be any different than the last president and the one before that.
    And another thing. I'm majoring in international business, I'm almost done actually. What do you think half my classes are on? International economics. What do you think we mostly focus on? Of course I have an understanding of American economics! diddles sake.

    Lol typical person who thinks they know everything because they studied it in school. Guess what, I completed a business degree myself. I'm not claiming to be an expert.
    big difference. my degree had 4 classes in poli-sci touching on international politics. i had one religion class touching on globalization and its impact on religion, i had 5 classes that were economics classes. i know what a typical business degree looks like and they don't shape tthem the way i shaped mine. also, the regular biz degree 90 credits. mine 120. so yeah. i did learn a lot more than the average degree. and btw, i have 20 years before going back to school where i have devoted a large portion of my life to social justice and environmental issues and the policies that drive it. so excuse me if i think i have a good idea of what i'm talking about.

    Oh so you're an SJW? That explains it.

    As somebody who has earned a degree, you really don't learn much of anything tangible from the degree. It's your real world work experience that matters most. Unless you directly worked in politics or economics, etc. I don't think you know a lot more than the average person. So you'd have to explain what twenty years devoted to social justice and environmental issues means.
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:12 pm


    Democrats f'd up with Hillary Clinton as their rep. What concerns me also is his views on guns and climate change.

    oh god. don't get me started.

    and his vice that said he doesn't think cigarettes are dangerous? wtf world is he living in?
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:27 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:You act like these things never happened before ever in America. News flash, this would happen under any president. If you think trump condones stuff like that, you're brainwashed by the media and hippies who tweet about crap like that.

    You also have poor facts. He doesn't want to get rid of immigrants. It's illegals he wants to get rid of, which is 100% correct. He also wants to build inner cities to make poor people and minority lives better. Wow he's literally hitler. Who gives a duck about the black lives matter group as they were complete challenged from the get go. They don't actually care about improving black lives, they simply hate on other groups. Hmm kinda what people say trump does.

    Your stance of "I'm right, you're wrong and don't get it" is unbelievably ignorant. Get off your high horse, you're a 40 year old Canadian, you're not an expert on American politics. To suggest that everyone who voted for him is a an idiot, uneducated, bigot, etc is completely unfair and insulting.

    I didn't care who won, I'm not affected by this in any way. I'm just sick of seeing Canadians and other people on their high horse trying to act like they know everytning about the election and acting like their Dung don't stink. people need to get a grip if they think trump as president will be any different than the last president and the one before that.
    And another thing. I'm majoring in international business, I'm almost done actually. What do you think half my classes are on? International economics. What do you think we mostly focus on? Of course I have an understanding of American economics! diddles sake.

    Lol typical person who thinks they know everything because they studied it in school. Guess what, I completed a business degree myself. I'm not claiming to be an expert.
    big difference. my degree had 4 classes in poli-sci touching on international politics. i had one religion class touching on globalization and its impact on religion, i had 5 classes that were economics classes. i know what a typical business degree looks like and they don't shape tthem the way i shaped mine. also, the regular biz degree 90 credits. mine 120. so yeah. i did learn a lot more than the average degree. and btw, i have 20 years before going back to school where i have devoted a large portion of my life to social justice and environmental issues and the policies that drive it. so excuse me if i think i have a good idea of what i'm talking about.

    Oh so you're an SJW? That explains it.

    As somebody who has earned a degree, you really don't learn much of anything tangible from the degree. It's your real world work experience that matters most. Unless you directly worked in politics or economics, etc. I don't think you know a lot more than the average person. So you'd have to explain what twenty years devoted to social justice and environmental issues means.
    Ive worked 5 years in a social centers providing help to impoverished minority community in Brixton england before it became gentrified. i've worked campaigning on behalf of organizations on a number of environmental protection issues from ocean conservation, to sustainability, to endangered habitats and ecosystems, to even working for Greenpeace. i've also traveled in most continents and not for weekly vacations but actually living abroad and experiencing different opinions from different religious beliefs. you may think that makes me a hippy but at least i've seen the view points. i've seen the hurt and the constant assault minorities receive. i've seen that the tactics of fear about extremists are exactly just that fear mongering, there isn't an imperialistic Muslim agenda. just tinny extremists. like you say life experiences teaches you plenty. i already knew half of what i learned in school because i have plenty of life experienced and i've self-educated myself before ever going back. so yes. i have a broad experience both based in real life and academically. i have also spent a year and a half living in washington states in spokane (just a half hour away from its famous hayden lake aryan nations compound who i have dealt personally with) and have traveled quite a bit across also so i have seen first hand america and the kind of sentiments it can have. i don't claim to know it all but i do think i have a very strong understanding of what drives this world on economical, social and environmental levels.

    but sure. i'm just a liberal hippy. or maybe it's because i've had my eyes opened my experiences.
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Ev on Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:34 pm

    Thank you for your explanation, I didn't call you a liberal hippie.

    All I ask is to not be what you accuse trump of being. Don't bash his supporters and paint them with the same brush. If I was voting in the us, I would have voted trump because of his business background, but I shouldn't be labelled a bigot or racist because I voted for him
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:58 pm

    Ev wrote:Thank you for your explanation, I didn't call you a liberal hippie.

    All I ask is to not be what you accuse trump of being. Don't bash his supporters and paint them with the same brush. If I was voting in the us, I would have voted trump because of his business background, but I shouldn't be labelled a bigot or racist because I voted for him

    i don't think every trump supporter is racist. although i think race played a big part. i think a lot of people are lucky to have white privilege and therefore could assume throw their middle finger up at Clinton because they would not be directly affected by his bigotry or what it inspires others to do. That is white privilege. if you'd been a black muslim man, you might have felt slightly differently even if you agreed with his business inclinations.
    as for you voting because if his business background well, that's a difference in ideology that we can just disagree on. personally i don't think you can run a country as a business and especially with his rate of failure he's had in that respect. sure you can bankrupt a casino because it might give you several tax incentives moving forward but you can't bankrupt a country. that's serious. apart from that, his lack of understanding of international political economy and diplomacy has me worried. its not all business deals. i don't think he'll start a 3rd world war like others have feared but he certainly won't make anything better and will likely respond to conflict with military might over diplomacy (so would clinton though, just maybe more tactically). Just look at his comments on upgrading military spending.
    his protectionist agenda doesn't work in today's global economy either. whether he follows through on that i don't know. manufacturing is dying out in america. Bernie had it right to want to invest in education for america to regain an intelectual competitive advantage that could lead to capital intensive production because being a producer of inexpensive goods no longer works from inside the American market. but those economic understanding are way beyond the average American who fights to keep those jobs. and you may well believe in monetarism and trickle down economics. That's a different view of economy.
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Ev on Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:06 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:Thank you for your explanation, I didn't call you a liberal hippie.

    All I ask is to not be what you accuse trump of being. Don't bash his supporters and paint them with the same brush. If I was voting in the us, I would have voted trump because of his business background, but I shouldn't be labelled a bigot or racist because I voted for him

    i don't think every trump supporter is racist. although i think race played a big part. i think a lot of people are lucky to have white privilege and therefore could assume throw their middle finger up at Clinton because they would not be directly affected by his bigotry or what it inspires others to do. That is white privilege. if you'd been a black muslim man, you might have felt slightly differently even if you agreed with his business inclinations.
    as for you voting because if his business background well, that's a difference in ideology that we can just disagree on. personally i don't think you can run i don't think he'll start a 3rd world war like others have feared but he certainly won't make anything better and will likely respond to conflict with military might over diplomacy (so would clinton though, just maybe more tactically). Just look at his comments on upgrading military spending.
    his protectionist agenda doesn't work in today's global economy either. whether he follows through on that i don't know. manufacturing is dying out in america. Bernie had it right to want to invest in education for america to regain an intelectual competitive advantage that could lead to capital intensive production because being a producer of inexpensive goods no longer works from inside the American market. but those economic understanding are way beyond the average American who fights to keep those jobs. and you may well believe in monetarism and trickle down economics. That's a different view of economy.

    Again you're talking in absolutes. To say he won't make anything better, today, is speculators and wrong. We don't know what will happen.

    Also a lot of minorities you see feel the way they do about trump because of their biases and their peer groups/media. It's groupthink. They see what they see in the media and start to think that way. It's like black lives matter, most of those people aren't even figthing for what's right, they're just doing it cuz they're friends are doing it and they want attention.
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:14 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Ev wrote:Thank you for your explanation, I didn't call you a liberal hippie.

    All I ask is to not be what you accuse trump of being. Don't bash his supporters and paint them with the same brush. If I was voting in the us, I would have voted trump because of his business background, but I shouldn't be labelled a bigot or racist because I voted for him

    i don't think every trump supporter is racist. although i think race played a big part. i think a lot of people are lucky to have white privilege and therefore could assume throw their middle finger up at Clinton because they would not be directly affected by his bigotry or what it inspires others to do. That is white privilege. if you'd been a black muslim man, you might have felt slightly differently even if you agreed with his business inclinations.
    as for you voting because if his business background well, that's a difference in ideology that we can just disagree on. personally i don't think you can run i don't think he'll start a 3rd world war like others have feared but he certainly won't make anything better and will likely respond to conflict with military might over diplomacy (so would clinton though, just maybe more tactically). Just look at his comments on upgrading military spending.
    his protectionist agenda doesn't work in today's global economy either. whether he follows through on that i don't know. manufacturing is dying out in america. Bernie had it right to want to invest in education for america to regain an intelectual competitive advantage that could lead to capital intensive production because being a producer of inexpensive goods no longer works from inside the American market. but those economic understanding are way beyond the average American who fights to keep those jobs. and you may well believe in monetarism and trickle down economics. That's a different view of economy.

    Again you're talking in absolutes. To say he won't make anything better, today, is speculators and wrong. We don't know what will happen.

    Also a lot of minorities you see feel the way they do about trump because of their biases and their peer groups/media. It's groupthink. They see what they see in the media and start to think that way. It's like black lives matter, most of those people aren't even figthing for what's right, they're just doing it cuz they're friends are doing it and they want attention.
    i won't deny there's an element of group think but it doesn't change the fact that the problem exists. it doesn't change the problem that people who were secretly holding racial prejudice now feel legitimized by seeing their president take that stance and now feel like they can act on those beliefs. this is what's been happening before the elections at trump rallies and now since the election everywhere.
    as for black lives matter there's no denial. police officers have been getting away without suspensions for abuse in their power for far too long. racial profiling isn't an invention. there is very real concern there. and so what if someone jumps on the bandwagon. there are people seriously suffering from this and other people getting involved is called empathy. a normal human emotion. should victims be the only ones protesting? ask the jews how well that worked out for them in nazi germany.
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by spader on Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:42 pm

    Ev wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Ev wrote:You act like these things never happened before ever in America. News flash, this would happen under any president. If you think trump condones stuff like that, you're brainwashed by the media and hippies who tweet about crap like that.

    You also have poor facts. He doesn't want to get rid of immigrants. It's illegals he wants to get rid of, which is 100% correct. He also wants to build inner cities to make poor people and minority lives better. Wow he's literally hitler. Who gives a duck about the black lives matter group as they were complete challenged from the get go. They don't actually care about improving black lives, they simply hate on other groups. Hmm kinda what people say trump does.

    Your stance of "I'm right, you're wrong and don't get it" is unbelievably ignorant. Get off your high horse, you're a 40 year old Canadian, you're not an expert on American politics. To suggest that everyone who voted for him is a an idiot, uneducated, bigot, etc is completely unfair and insulting.

    I didn't care who won, I'm not affected by this in any way. I'm just sick of seeing Canadians and other people on their high horse trying to act like they know everytning about the election and acting like their Dung don't stink. people need to get a grip if they think trump as president will be any different than the last president and the one before that.

    FWIW, you're doing much the same thing.

    I'm not. I don't have a hard side in this fight. I'm open to anybody liking either side. It's the hypocritical trashing of the trump side and the wide generalizations that I am sick of.

    Well, you're telling him not to paint in broad brushstrokes, but you're also saying things like, "you're a SJW? That explains it." You telling me that isn't representative of a wide generalization? You basically said that since you know one thing about him, you know who he is. Those are some broad brushstrokes, young REDACTED.
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by spader on Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:48 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I personally have nothing more to debate. You either see this election of a guy that is accused of rape on a minor, multitude sexual assault charge, the segregation and or deportation of Muslims and immigrants and the repealing of happy rights (not to mention one of the shakiest economical platforms in Presidential history)a terrible move for America or if you support him I think I would think there is no reasons to debate it with you as you have little to no comprehension on social justice, white male privilege and any responsible economic back bone. You can support republicans if you want but this has crossed multiple lines. When even traditional hard line republicans denounce him and the only people proping him up are the idiots, the ignorant privileged and the crazy extremist, you know he's the fucktard. This is going to end badly and not only in the states. If he repeal or even amends nafta even we will suffer
    I've said my piece. I don't care to discuss any objections as it will only prove to me you don't get it. Can't think of any political issue that in my mind has created a more divisive gap.

    Did you read the article prags posted above? It's worth a read. It helped me understand how this could happen. Give it a shot.
    Oh I had read it. I honk there are a lot of disanframchised people. I didn't like Hilary ever but enything was better than this Buffon. If anything Bernie might have provided a better chance to win. That country is split but they just invested in the wrong guy. No experience, failure to understand politics and economics.

    I think it goes without saying that Bernie provided a better chance to win.

    The thing that really got my attention in Moore's article was the idea of an echo chamber and the idea that people on the left ignored the obvious groundswell that Trump represented. The fact that we (and I include myself) saw this as a slam dunk for the Democrats demonstrates how out of touch we were as the campaign progressed. I mean, the guy won the republican ticket. That alone should have been a wakeup call. Now, there wouldn't have been much that you or I could do about it, but I certainly wouldn't be so stunned if I'd pried my head outta my Donkey and recognized that this wasn't some stunt. It was happening before my eyes and I didn't see it. It's such a clear example of cognitive dissonance that I'm sure there are psych professors champing at the bit to use this example to teach the concept.
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:02 pm

    spader wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I personally have nothing more to debate. You either see this election of a guy that is accused of rape on a minor, multitude sexual assault charge, the segregation and or deportation of Muslims and immigrants and the repealing of happy rights (not to mention one of the shakiest economical platforms in Presidential history)a terrible move for America or if you support him I think I would think there is no reasons to debate it with you as you have little to no comprehension on social justice, white male privilege and any responsible economic back bone. You can support republicans if you want but this has crossed multiple lines. When even traditional hard line republicans denounce him and the only people proping him up are the idiots, the ignorant privileged and the crazy extremist, you know he's the fucktard. This is going to end badly and not only in the states. If he repeal or even amends nafta even we will suffer
    I've said my piece. I don't care to discuss any objections as it will only prove to me you don't get it. Can't think of any political issue that in my mind has created a more divisive gap.

    Did you read the article prags posted above? It's worth a read. It helped me understand how this could happen. Give it a shot.
    Oh I had read it. I honk there are a lot of disanframchised people. I didn't like Hilary ever but enything was better than this Buffon. If anything Bernie might have provided a better chance to win. That country is split but they just invested in the wrong guy. No experience, failure to understand politics and economics.

    I think it goes without saying that Bernie provided a better chance to win.

    The thing that really got my attention in Moore's article was the idea of an echo chamber and the idea that people on the left ignored the obvious groundswell that Trump represented. The fact that we (and I include myself) saw this as a slam dunk for the Democrats demonstrates how out of touch we were as the campaign progressed. I mean, the guy won the republican ticket. That alone should have been a wakeup call. Now, there wouldn't have been much that you or I could do about it, but I certainly wouldn't be so stunned if I'd pried my head outta my Donkey and recognized that this wasn't some stunt. It was happening before my eyes and I didn't see it. It's such a clear example of cognitive dissonance that I'm sure there are psych professors champing at the bit to use this example to teach the concept.
    The fact that we were all surprised media and public was incredible. I guess we all thought that the republicans that had denounced trump would be voting for Hilary. I think what really happened is that they didn't vote at all. And the crazies/extremists really came out of the woods in this one. A lot of people that feel like they never have a candidate they like came out and voted. Th voting turn out of 55% says it all. I just wished that all the people that wanted Bernie to vote and instead voted green or did not vote could have been more sensible. I guess everyone thought trump didn't stand a chance. The established democratic regime in Germany also never saw the rise of fascism or didn't take it very seriously when it happened. Until it was too late. I'm not saying this is Germany all over again but the similarities are eerie.
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Ev on Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:20 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    spader wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I personally have nothing more to debate. You either see this election of a guy that is accused of rape on a minor, multitude sexual assault charge, the segregation and or deportation of Muslims and immigrants and the repealing of happy rights (not to mention one of the shakiest economical platforms in Presidential history)a terrible move for America or if you support him I think I would think there is no reasons to debate it with you as you have little to no comprehension on social justice, white male privilege and any responsible economic back bone. You can support republicans if you want but this has crossed multiple lines. When even traditional hard line republicans denounce him and the only people proping him up are the idiots, the ignorant privileged and the crazy extremist, you know he's the fucktard. This is going to end badly and not only in the states. If he repeal or even amends nafta even we will suffer
    I've said my piece. I don't care to discuss any objections as it will only prove to me you don't get it. Can't think of any political issue that in my mind has created a more divisive gap.

    Did you read the article prags posted above? It's worth a read. It helped me understand how this could happen. Give it a shot.
    Oh I had read it. I honk there are a lot of disanframchised people. I didn't like Hilary ever but enything was better than this Buffon. If anything Bernie might have provided a better chance to win. That country is split but they just invested in the wrong guy. No experience, failure to understand politics and economics.

    There are no similarities. That would never happen in 2016

    I think it goes without saying that Bernie provided a better chance to win.

    The thing that really got my attention in Moore's article was the idea of an echo chamber and the idea that people on the left ignored the obvious groundswell that Trump represented. The fact that we (and I include myself) saw this as a slam dunk for the Democrats demonstrates how out of touch we were as the campaign progressed. I mean, the guy won the republican ticket. That alone should have been a wakeup call. Now, there wouldn't have been much that you or I could do about it, but I certainly wouldn't be so stunned if I'd pried my head outta my Donkey and recognized that this wasn't some stunt. It was happening before my eyes and I didn't see it. It's such a clear example of cognitive dissonance that I'm sure there are psych professors champing at the bit to use this example to teach the concept.
    The fact that we were all surprised media and public was incredible. I guess we all thought that the republicans that had denounced trump would be voting for Hilary. I think what really happened is that they didn't vote at all. And the crazies/extremists really came out of the woods in this one. A lot of people that feel like they never have a candidate they like came out and voted. Th voting turn out of 55% says it all. I just wished that all the people that wanted Bernie to vote and instead voted green or did not vote could have been more sensible. I guess everyone thought trump didn't stand a chance. The established democratic regime in Germany also never saw the rise of fascism or didn't take it very seriously when it happened. Until it was too late. I'm not saying this is Germany all over again but the similarities are eerie.
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    Flo The Action
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Flo The Action on Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:11 pm

    Yeah. Because there's barely anyone using the election to impose their views.

    http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/11/12/teacher-just-caught-tape-telling-students-trump-deport-parents/
    This is recorded. A school teacher telling an 11 year old that even if she was born here her parents would be deported. A school teacher. I hope he loses his job. Completely unacceptable. Just one of many incidents. People taking their racist liberties too far.
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    tim1_2
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by tim1_2 on Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:16 am

    Ev wrote:If I was voting in the us, I would have voted trump because of his business background,

    FYI, it was his dad who created the real estate business and made the money. Donald just inherited it and kept doing the same thing. It's one of this things where once you have millions of dollars it's easy to just pile on.

    Giving Trump credit for making money is pretty dumb.

    Anyway, you guys get back to it.
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    wprager
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by wprager on Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:10 am

    He started with what his dad gave him, true, but he went pretty far ahead of that.


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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by SeawaySensFan on Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:00 pm

    tim1_2 wrote:
    Ev wrote:If I was voting in the us, I would have voted trump because of his business background,

    FYI, it was his dad who created the real estate business and made the money. Donald just inherited it and kept doing the same thing. It's one of this things where once you have millions of dollars it's easy to just pile on.

    Giving Trump credit for making money is pretty dumb.

    Anyway, you guys get back to it.

    Well said.
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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:13 pm

    wprager wrote:He started with what his dad gave him, true, but he went pretty far ahead of that.
    Actually if he would have invested his dad's money into the S&P 500 index fun he'd be richer than he is now. He did not beat the market, if anything he's not been very successful.

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    Re: Trump, Clinton, and Everything in Between

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