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Flo The Action


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DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I think what happens tomorrow is a tell-tale sign of why Sens fans don't attend games. I realize that we are all armchair GM's but the decision to protect Ceci over Methot (and not protect Methot via trade - apparently Ottawa missed the 'deadline' to negotiate), watching your division rival pick up Drouin when he was rumored to come here for two years, and the Burrows sign and trade are all examples of how management in Ottawa has poor valuation of its players, prospects, and picks. They were one goal away from the Cup finals, and I feel like this decision and lack of asset management may cost the Sens another chance to win with their  current roster.

I know we have all debated why fans don't attend games, but I do think the true underlying reason is that the average fan is upset with management. If the Sens lose Methot and he goes to a division rival (Toronto), Karlsson will be pissed, Phaneuf will be hated, and the Sens will be a mess in terms of their team dynamic. This could easily drive a wedge between Karlsson and ownership, and  the one to blame would be Boucher because that's how this league works.

Bit of a rant I know, but if the Sens lose Methot and he ends up in Toronto for a 1st rd pick then good on McPhee but Ottawa should have assessed the market and gotten rid of him or Ceci for something. I guess only time will tell.

This is hella alarmist. Calm down. We will likely be in a better situation next year than this.

spader


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DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I think what happens tomorrow is a tell-tale sign of why Sens fans don't attend games. I realize that we are all armchair GM's but the decision to protect Ceci over Methot (and not protect Methot via trade - apparently Ottawa missed the 'deadline' to negotiate), watching your division rival pick up Drouin when he was rumored to come here for two years, and the Burrows sign and trade are all examples of how management in Ottawa has poor valuation of its players, prospects, and picks. They were one goal away from the Cup finals, and I feel like this decision and lack of asset management may cost the Sens another chance to win with their current roster.

I know we have all debated why fans don't attend games, but I do think the true underlying reason is that the average fan is upset with management. If the Sens lose Methot and he goes to a division rival (Toronto), Karlsson will be pissed, Phaneuf will be hated, and the Sens will be a mess in terms of their team dynamic. This could easily drive a wedge between Karlsson and ownership, and the one to blame would be Boucher because that's how this league works.

Bit of a rant I know, but if the Sens lose Methot and he ends up in Toronto for a 1st rd pick then good on McPhee but Ottawa should have assessed the market and gotten rid of him or Ceci for something. I guess only time will tell.

This is nonsense. If Toronto trades for Methot, that will cause Karlsson to be pissed at ownership and Boucher? And the whole "he should have assessed the market and blah blah blah" thing is ridiculous. You think Lamoriello would tell Dorion his plan to shore up his defence through a division rival? Why would he do that? This post is a combination of speculation, assumptions, and utter nonsense.

PTFlea


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That would suck if he's traded to Toronto

tim1_2

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Methot still has a 10-team no trade clause or whatever, so wherever he winds up, if Vegas trades him, can be partially dictated by that.

DefenceWinsChampionships


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Apparently Toronto and Montreal are on his no trade list (heard that from Team 1200). They are saying logical spot is Dallas.

As for the point above re attendance, yes a lot of that is speculation but I think if you ask fans why they don't go to games the majority will say it is due to management. I can list off quite a few terrible trades/decisions made over the last couple of years that would certainly upset fans enough to show little faith in management.

Ev

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Name them then. Nothing the sens have done in the last few years has been terrible.

I think is making the ecf should show what our management is capable of. If fans think otherwise, that's their decision but it would be a stupid one.

tim1_2

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I would say one of the issues Sens fans have with the team is Eugene Melnyk, but he hasn't had much negative impact on the on-ice product lately.

There's nothing Ottawa can do about losing a defenceman. And if they traded a d-man, then another one was going to get picked and we'd lose two. Let's wait and see how the roster is shaping up in September before we poop our pants.

DefenceWinsChampionships


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Ev wrote:Name them then. Nothing the sens have done in the last few years has been terrible.

I think is making the ecf should show what our management is capable of. If fans think otherwise, that's their decision but it would be a stupid one.

Just to name a few in recent memory:

- Burrows for Dahlen (majority of fans were not happy - signing 2 year contract was even worse)
- Spezza for nothing (Chiasson, Paul, Gagne, that other prospect)
- Alfie walks for nothing
- Bishop for Conacher
- Development of Lazar, Prince, Puempel, and Cowen
- Bobby Ryan trade (I know it had to be done but that trade hurt)
- Phaneuf trade (his NMC may cost us Methot)
- Zib for Brassard (tbd - not awful but Zib is the better player and it cost us a 2nd)

Fact is Ottawa has a two year window to win with this team. They were a goal away from the Cup final. You do what you can with your mid level prospects and your 1st rd pick (27th overall) to ensure your team stays in tact. You add a piece or two now and you go for it.



spader

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DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Apparently Toronto and Montreal are on his no trade list (heard that from Team 1200). They are saying logical spot is Dallas.

As for the point above re attendance, yes a lot of that is speculation but I think if you ask fans why they don't go to games the majority will say it is due to management. I can list off quite a few terrible trades/decisions made over the last couple of years that would certainly upset fans enough to show little faith in management.

Dallas would be ok. It would suck if he was in division.

tim1_2

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I'm not really concerned about Methot's whereabouts. He had zero goals. He's a good top 4 d-man and seems like a fine chap. Sorry to see him leave, but we will be OK.

spader

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tim1_2 wrote:I'm not really concerned about Methot's whereabouts. He had zero goals. He's a good top 4 d-man and seems like a fine chap. Sorry to see him leave, but we will be OK.

I agree, but past history makes me prefer former players to play out of division. Remember Corvo's hattie?

Ev

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DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
Ev wrote:Name them then. Nothing the sens have done in the last few years has been terrible.

I think is making the ecf should show what our management is capable of. If fans think otherwise, that's their decision but it would be a stupid one.

Just to name a few in recent memory:

- Burrows for Dahlen (majority of fans were not happy - signing 2 year contract was even worse) - I couldn't care less if fans weren't happy, this was a decent move parting with an average prospect. I don't think people realize how important Burrows was, we would have beat the Pens with him
- Spezza for nothing (Chiasson, Paul, Gagne, that other prospect) - nothing they could do about this at all
- Alfie walks for nothing sure this was bad but he wasn't an important player at this time
- Bishop for Conacher highly praised deal when it was made and Bishop was 3rd on out depth chart. It didn't work out, but you can't call this is a bad move
- Development of Lazar, Prince, Puempel, and Cowen Prince and Puempel were highly seasoned, they just aren't good. Lazar turned out to have no skill and Cowen had injuries
- Bobby Ryan trade (I know it had to be done but that trade hurt) that trade hardly hurt the team, we'd be no different today IMO
- Phaneuf trade (his NMC may cost us Methot)  great move, without Phaneuf we aren't in the playoffs
- Zib for Brassard (tbd - not awful but Zib is the better player and it cost us a 2nd) highly debatable statement. IMO Brassard is much more complete and Zib would have been awful under Boucher. He has no drive to succeed

Fact is Ottawa has a two year window to win with this team. They were a goal away from the Cup final. You do what you can with your mid level prospects and your 1st rd pick (27th overall) to ensure your team stays in tact. You add a piece or two now and you go for it.


A 1st round pick and Claesson is not worth it to keep a 32 year old injury prone 2nd pairing defensive d-man.

Most of those moves you mentioned have nothing to do with current management, and none were terrible. I have my thoughts in bold.

PTFlea

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Yeah, begrudgingly that's a no if it was a 1st play claesson

wprager

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PTFlea wrote:Yeah, begrudgingly that's a no if it was a 1st play claesson

He meant giving up a 1st so they would take Claesson instead of Methot. But point is you wouldn't do that as a trade.

Brest move is to lost just one defenseman, and a leftie at that. This is why Ceci was protected. That, and the age/salary.


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spader

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wprager wrote:
PTFlea wrote:Yeah, begrudgingly that's a no if it was a 1st play claesson

He meant giving up a 1st so they would take Claesson instead of Methot. But point is you wouldn't do that as a trade.

Brest move is to lost just one defenseman, and a leftie at that. This is why Ceci was protected. That, and the age/salary.

I don't understand how that would be different. A 1st + Claesson is what SD said he doesn't want to lose. If they gave that up to protect Meth, that would still cost us both assets.

PTFlea

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Yeah, lost methot, kept first (in 2018 apparently ) and kept claesson. That's life, hopefully Dorion is prepared.

Flo The Action

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DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
Ev wrote:Name them then. Nothing the sens have done in the last few years has been terrible.

I think is making the ecf should show what our management is capable of. If fans think otherwise, that's their decision but it would be a stupid one.

Just to name a few in recent memory:

- Burrows for Dahlen (majority of fans were not happy - signing 2 year contract was even worse)
- Spezza for nothing (Chiasson, Paul, Gagne, that other prospect)
- Alfie walks for nothing
- Bishop for Conacher
- Development of Lazar, Prince, Puempel, and Cowen
- Bobby Ryan trade (I know it had to be done but that trade hurt)
- Phaneuf trade (his NMC may cost us Methot)
- Zib for Brassard (tbd - not awful but Zib is the better player and it cost us a 2nd)

Fact is Ottawa has a two year window to win with this team. They were a goal away from the Cup final. You do what you can with your mid level prospects and your 1st rd pick (27th overall) to ensure your team stays in tact. You add a piece or two now and you go for it.




Funny but there's quite a few deals in that lot that either looked good at e time or still look good today.
We got hijacked by spezza's refusal to accept some trade destinations so it was trying to make the best out of that situation or lose him for nothing. The verdict is still out on dahlem, he might never play an NHL game. Bishop for conacher is the only true horrible one but did it hurt the team? Anderson is doing just fine.

Flo The Action

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Im not too upset about loosing Methot. I refrain from passing judgement until we see what next year's line-up will be.

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