Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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    PTFlea
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:17 pm

    Yeah, lost methot, kept first (in 2018 apparently ) and kept claesson. That's life, hopefully Dorion is prepared.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:19 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:Name them then. Nothing the sens have done in the last few years has been terrible.

    I think is making the ecf should show what our management is capable of. If fans think otherwise, that's their decision but it would be a stupid one.

    Just to name a few in recent memory:

    - Burrows for Dahlen (majority of fans were not happy - signing 2 year contract was even worse)
    - Spezza for nothing (Chiasson, Paul, Gagne, that other prospect)
    - Alfie walks for nothing
    - Bishop for Conacher
    - Development of Lazar, Prince, Puempel, and Cowen
    - Bobby Ryan trade (I know it had to be done but that trade hurt)
    - Phaneuf trade (his NMC may cost us Methot)
    - Zib for Brassard (tbd - not awful but Zib is the better player and it cost us a 2nd)

    Fact is Ottawa has a two year window to win with this team. They were a goal away from the Cup final. You do what you can with your mid level prospects and your 1st rd pick (27th overall) to ensure your team stays in tact. You add a piece or two now and you go for it.




    Funny but there's quite a few deals in that lot that either looked good at e time or still look good today.
    We got hijacked by spezza's refusal to accept some trade destinations so it was trying to make the best out of that situation or lose him for nothing. The verdict is still out on dahlem, he might never play an NHL game. Bishop for conacher is the only true horrible one but did it hurt the team? Anderson is doing just fine.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:20 pm

    Im not too upset about loosing Methot. I refrain from passing judgement until we see what next year's line-up will be.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:47 pm

    Losing Methot and his 65 games a year is no big deal.  Karlsson is not hard to play with like some will have you believe.  Opens up spots for Claessen and Chanot or Englund.   We are fine.  

    In the attendance issue, I was told the Sens had only 7500 season tickets sold last year.  Hopefully the playoff run gave that a nice bump.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:13 pm

    I disagree, it's a fairly big deal. He plays against teams top lines and he's a warrior. Hopefully we can fill that spot, either from claesson or a trade or signing.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:02 pm

    Karlsson not winning the Norris and Matthews winning the Calder. all is wrong with this world.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:52 am

    Trade freeze is lifted today. Draft is tomorrow. Does Dorion do something to win back fan support?

    I wanted to address my comment from earlier re attendance. It stems from personal speculation and is based on listening to fan reactions on Team 1200 and reading other Sens site. It seems to me as though fans are generally upset about the mismanagement of assets. Maybe there is a correlation - maybe there isn't. But Team 1200 had hours of coverage yesterday where maybe a handful of fans were okay with losing Methot. But they all mentioned that he can be replaced in free agency (which he won't) or internally (which will be by committee). Otherwise everyone was pissed and discussed their displeasure with management. Similar to my previous rant from Tuesday.

    Dorion and co are professionals. They know more than me. They know more than you. And they know more than the average fan. They see these guys practice every day, know their character, and (I hope) have a plan. But I still can't fathom how you protect Ceci over Methot. Yes he's cheaper and younger but Methot played top pairing minutes with the best defenseman in the world. There is no real internal plan to replace him in the short-term, and any UFA we sign will be more expensive and may not have that same synergy with Karlsson. If their plan is for Phaneuf to play Methot's minutes then it just proves my point that management is incapable of making good decisions, and the Sens are screwed.

    If I am Dorion I am doing whatever I can to get someone like Edler out of Vancouver. He's played with Karlsson internationally, has a similar AAV to Methot, and I think will help win the fans over.

    As for re-signing Pageau and Dzingel, both are RFA's and let's be realistic. Pageau is a crowd favourite and an important part of the team. But he's a third line, undersized center. He'll make $2.5M - $2.75M over a three or four year deal. As for Dzingel that one-way contract at $1.5M per seems pretty realistic. He was a healthy scratch in the playoffs and was less than stellar the second half of last season.

    I also think the Sens need to ship out Phaneuf. What he did by not waiving was his right, which I respect him for exercising. But he screwed over the team and I think will be public enemy number 1 from our own fans next season. I would look at moving him now before the fan base turns on him and whatever value he has is nullified.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:55 am

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Trade freeze is lifted today. Draft is tomorrow. Does Dorion do something to win back fan support?

    I wanted to address my comment from earlier re attendance. It stems from personal speculation and is based on listening to fan reactions on Team 1200 and reading other Sens site. It seems to me as though fans are generally upset about the mismanagement of assets. Maybe there is a correlation - maybe there isn't. But Team 1200 had hours of coverage yesterday where maybe a handful of fans were okay with losing Methot. But they all mentioned that he can be replaced in free agency (which he won't) or internally (which will be by committee). Otherwise everyone was pissed and discussed their displeasure with management. Similar to my previous rant from Tuesday.

    Dorion and co are professionals. They know more than me. They know more than you. And they know more than the average fan. They see these guys practice every day, know their character, and (I hope) have a plan. But I still can't fathom how you protect Ceci over Methot. Yes he's cheaper and younger but Methot played top pairing minutes with the best defenseman in the world. There is no real internal plan to replace him in the short-term, and any UFA we sign will be more expensive and may not have that same synergy with Karlsson. If their plan is for Phaneuf to play Methot's minutes then it just proves my point that management is incapable of making good decisions, and the Sens are screwed.

    If I am Dorion I am doing whatever I can to get someone like Edler out of Vancouver. He's played with Karlsson internationally, has a similar AAV to Methot, and I think will help win the fans over.

    As for re-signing Pageau and Dzingel, both are RFA's and let's be realistic. Pageau is a crowd favourite and an important part of the team. But he's a third line, undersized center. He'll make $2.5M - $2.75M over a three or four year deal. As for Dzingel that one-way contract at $1.5M per seems pretty realistic. He was a healthy scratch in the playoffs and was less than stellar the second half of last season.

    I also think the Sens need to ship out Phaneuf. What he did by not waiving was his right, which I respect him for exercising. But he screwed over the team and I think will be public enemy number 1 from our own fans next season. I would look at moving him now before the fan base turns on him and whatever value he has is nullified.        

    I am totally okay replacing Phaneuf with Claesson, but having Claesson replace Methot is a no-go for me. Something needs to be done.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Ev on Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:08 am

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Trade freeze is lifted today. Draft is tomorrow. Does Dorion do something to win back fan support?

    I wanted to address my comment from earlier re attendance. It stems from personal speculation and is based on listening to fan reactions on Team 1200 and reading other Sens site. It seems to me as though fans are generally upset about the mismanagement of assets. Maybe there is a correlation - maybe there isn't. But Team 1200 had hours of coverage yesterday where maybe a handful of fans were okay with losing Methot. But they all mentioned that he can be replaced in free agency (which he won't) or internally (which will be by committee). Otherwise everyone was pissed and discussed their displeasure with management. Similar to my previous rant from Tuesday.

    Dorion and co are professionals. They know more than me. They know more than you. And they know more than the average fan. They see these guys practice every day, know their character, and (I hope) have a plan. But I still can't fathom how you protect Ceci over Methot. Yes he's cheaper and younger but Methot played top pairing minutes with the best defenseman in the world. There is no real internal plan to replace him in the short-term, and any UFA we sign will be more expensive and may not have that same synergy with Karlsson. If their plan is for Phaneuf to play Methot's minutes then it just proves my point that management is incapable of making good decisions, and the Sens are screwed.

    If I am Dorion I am doing whatever I can to get someone like Edler out of Vancouver. He's played with Karlsson internationally, has a similar AAV to Methot, and I think will help win the fans over.

    As for re-signing Pageau and Dzingel, both are RFA's and let's be realistic. Pageau is a crowd favourite and an important part of the team. But he's a third line, undersized center. He'll make $2.5M - $2.75M over a three or four year deal. As for Dzingel that one-way contract at $1.5M per seems pretty realistic. He was a healthy scratch in the playoffs and was less than stellar the second half of last season.

    I also think the Sens need to ship out Phaneuf. What he did by not waiving was his right, which I respect him for exercising. But he screwed over the team and I think will be public enemy number 1 from our own fans next season. I would look at moving him now before the fan base turns on him and whatever value he has is nullified.        

    You are listening to a vocal minority. Most fans realize it was out of managements hands. We had to lose a player. I have not seen many fans at all who are mad at Dion. Literally have seen like one or two. The vast majority are fine with his decision.

    Where does this myth come from about methotsminutes? Methot was our fourth most used defenseman all season long. He played 19 minutes per game compared to 23 minutes for both Ceci and Phaneuf. Ceci and Phaneuf were matched up against the top lines every night and played tougher and more minutes than Methot. Methot did not always play top line and it's pretty clear that Ceci and Phaneuf were trusted more than him especially on the PK.

    There wasn't a team in the league that would have protected Methot over Ceci. It just wouldn't have made any sense . It's all about asset control. The two are similar players, so you protect the one you can control longer and the one who fills a bigger need .

    Also synergy with Karlsson is irrelevant . He can play with anybody. hes like Crosby who is good with even the bottom deeper players. Karlsson s stats were actually better without Methot this year . Methot is a declining asset who has a finger and hip problem anyway.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by tim1_2 on Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:16 am

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    I also think the Sens need to ship out Phaneuf. What he did by not waiving was his right, which I respect him for exercising. But he screwed over the team and I think will be public enemy number 1 from our own fans next season. I would look at moving him now before the fan base turns on him and whatever value he has is nullified.        

    They explored trading Phaneuf prior to the expansion draft so they wouldn't have to protect him. I'm guessing there were no takers on his 10-team trade list. Trading him now would be beyond stupid since we need left d-men. Methot is 32, a little injury-prone, and had zero goals last year. We tend to overstate how good he is, although certainly his veteran presence and warrior mentality will be missed.

    Ceci has more "value" around the league, so protecting him was the right call, even if he's not as good a d-man as Methot is right now.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:22 am

    All fair and valid points. No rebuttal from me aside from hoping that Claesson isn't our next Peter Regin. But I hope you're right. We'll see what happens over the course of the summer.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Ev on Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:25 am

    Claesson could bust and we'd still be fine. It's Thomas Chabot who will be our star on LD.

    You can get a fine d in trade or free agency. The sens should take a look at del zotto who is very underrated and provides similar results as methot.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:10 pm

    Yeah I'm gonna repeat a little of what was said but you're barely ever gonna hear the fans who are happy come out and voice it on the radio. More than likely are the fans that are pissed. Most fans will get over it.
    Methot isn't hard to replace. I think it was proven that karlsson made Kuba look amazing. Hell make whoever plays with him look fine. Where does this conception that Phaneuf would be terrible with Karl come from? He'd be fine. If anything they need more ceci to form a pairing.

    Im so not worried. Either the answer comes internally or they will adress it this summer or in season.

    And no, let's not trade Phaneuf. That would be horrific.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:11 pm

    I like stone's brother. Always have. Great mobility, great shot blocker. He'd fit like a glove here - plus, I think he plays either the left or right side
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:00 pm

    PTFlea wrote:I like stone's brother.  Always have.  Great mobility,  great shot blocker.  He'd fit like a glove here - plus, I think he plays either the left or right side
    TBH I don't know enough about him but I was under the impression he was more of a bottom pairing guy.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Ev on Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:19 pm

    He's pretty similar to Methot actually
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by spader on Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:12 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:I like stone's brother.  Always have.  Great mobility,  great shot blocker.  He'd fit like a glove here - plus, I think he plays either the left or right side
    TBH I don't know enough about him but I was under the impression he was more of a bottom pairing guy.

    He's underrated. He's on the low end of top-4 (maybe more like a 4/5 guy), but he plays a sound game. Good physicality. I don't know if he has a walloping hip check though. That's what I'll miss most from Methot. Love a good hip check.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:43 pm

    We might find out that Methot held Karlsson back from his third Norris.


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