Meddling Melnyk faces lawsuits.

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    wprager
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    Re: Meddling Melnyk faces lawsuits.

    Post by wprager on Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:35 pm

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:All good points except that the Habs have a much larger fan base to draw from and have a rich history.  The Sens have barely been around by comparison.  You're also dealing with a vastly different market when it comes to Ottawa and the fact that selling season seats to corporations isn't as easily done as other markets due to the fact that the majority of business is either government or corporations that have most of their dealings tied to government.  

    True. But this just means it's a challenge. Dallas fans shout "Stars" when they sing Start Spangled Banner; they even do that when visiting other rinks. Don't know how it started but we have nothing like that (United in Red?) Stars scoreboard operator trolls other teams. The only thing I can think of is the ill-fated clip of Spartacus making Habs players walk the plank a short time after Gainey's daughter was lost at sea. Can't believe I'm saying it but I actually kinda miss Cotton Eye Joe -- that's how bad it is now.

    What will it take for Sens fans (the vast majority) to be loud and proud? I don't know, but it's not my job. Maybe "plant" some professional supporters/cheerleaders? Identify best fans in each section and give them some kind of prize. Dab cam? Really?

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    Re: Meddling Melnyk faces lawsuits.

    Post by spader on Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:35 pm

    wprager wrote:
    spader wrote:First of all, none of us are in a position to evaluate any of these guys. Are you guys serious? I've said it before and I'll say it again, you must be a real treat to work with, prags.

    I've worked as a s/w manager for a number of years, and I've taken a few courses on goal-setting and evaluating performance.  I've written my share of annual performance reviews.  That snippet they had from Leeder's evaluation of O'Leary was quite weak from *my* vantage point, and for an executive role I would have expected even more.  Objectives for an executive-level position cannot be to "prioritize the big rocks", "deliver high volume of output"  or to work late.  It should be more like "Grow STH base to X", "Improve in-game entertainment  evaluation scores Y%", "Identify customers' three biggest concerns and develop plan to address them".

    From those kinds of objectives the performance evaluation would have been something like "STH base decreased 10% YoY versus objective to grow by 10%".  Other than the Prime Minster Races do we have anything  you find interesting, funny or exciting before/after games and during intermissions?  Are you still bothered by drunk, loud Leafs fans shouting "THIS IS OUR HOUSE" or Hbas fans chanting "Ole"?  Has anything been done about any of this?  The Centurion from the SCF was not his fault but the stench still remains because, frankly, nothing *NOTHING* has been done to allow us to forget it.

    This is a great example of you not getting it.

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    Re: Meddling Melnyk faces lawsuits.

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:41 pm

    Cap'n Clutch wrote:All good points except that the Habs have a much larger fan base to draw from and have a rich history.  The Sens have barely been around by comparison.  You're also dealing with a vastly different market when it comes to Ottawa and the fact that selling season seats to corporations isn't as easily done as other markets due to the fact that the majority of business is either government or corporations that have most of their dealings tied to government.  
    Go back to the late 90's and see that he habs weren't selling out games and the franchise wasn't so healthy. But you're right, they have more fans. I'm not saying we can pull the same results that the habs but we can definitely do better, it's been very average over in Ottawa.
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    Re: Meddling Melnyk faces lawsuits.

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:44 pm

    wprager wrote:
    Cap'n Clutch wrote:All good points except that the Habs have a much larger fan base to draw from and have a rich history.  The Sens have barely been around by comparison.  You're also dealing with a vastly different market when it comes to Ottawa and the fact that selling season seats to corporations isn't as easily done as other markets due to the fact that the majority of business is either government or corporations that have most of their dealings tied to government.  

    True.  But this just means it's a challenge.  Dallas fans shout "Stars" when they sing Start Spangled Banner; they even do that when visiting other rinks.  Don't know how it started but we have nothing like that (United in Red?)  Stars scoreboard operator trolls other teams.  The only thing I can think of is the ill-fated clip of Spartacus making Habs players walk the plank a short time after Gainey's daughter was lost at sea.  Can't believe I'm saying it but I actually kinda miss Cotton Eye Joe -- that's how bad it is now.

    What will it take for Sens fans (the vast majority) to be loud and proud?  I don't know, but it's not my job.  Maybe "plant" some professional supporters/cheerleaders?  Identify best fans in each section and give them some kind of prize.  Dab cam?  Really?  

    They actually have crowd cheerleaders at habs games. They get people going. I'm sure most fans that watch on TV don't realize that.
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    Re: Meddling Melnyk faces lawsuits.

    Post by wprager on Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:54 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Cap'n Clutch wrote:All good points except that the Habs have a much larger fan base to draw from and have a rich history.  The Sens have barely been around by comparison.  You're also dealing with a vastly different market when it comes to Ottawa and the fact that selling season seats to corporations isn't as easily done as other markets due to the fact that the majority of business is either government or corporations that have most of their dealings tied to government.  
    Go back to the late 90's and see that he habs weren't selling out games and the franchise wasn't so healthy. But you're right, they have more fans. I'm not saying we can pull the same results that the habs but we can definitely do better, it's been very average over in Ottawa.

    I still remember when Molson's wanted to sell the Habs. At the time there was a real possibility discussed of the team relocating under different ownership. Eventually they sold to Gillette, then a few years back the bought it back. Over the last 20 years they've had three owners (Molson's, Gillette, Molson's again). Not exactly as stable as you thought, eh?

    Not saying they ever had to borrow money from the league to make payday, or ask their top player to defer his bonuses, but 20-odd years ago Molson's was *losing* money so much that they had to sell.


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    Re: Meddling Melnyk faces lawsuits.

    Post by wprager on Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:05 pm

    spader wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    spader wrote:First of all, none of us are in a position to evaluate any of these guys. Are you guys serious? I've said it before and I'll say it again, you must be a real treat to work with, prags.

    I've worked as a s/w manager for a number of years, and I've taken a few courses on goal-setting and evaluating performance.  I've written my share of annual performance reviews.  That snippet they had from Leeder's evaluation of O'Leary was quite weak from *my* vantage point, and for an executive role I would have expected even more.  Objectives for an executive-level position cannot be to "prioritize the big rocks", "deliver high volume of output"  or to work late.  It should be more like "Grow STH base to X", "Improve in-game entertainment  evaluation scores Y%", "Identify customers' three biggest concerns and develop plan to address them".

    From those kinds of objectives the performance evaluation would have been something like "STH base decreased 10% YoY versus objective to grow by 10%".  Other than the Prime Minster Races do we have anything  you find interesting, funny or exciting before/after games and during intermissions?  Are you still bothered by drunk, loud Leafs fans shouting "THIS IS OUR HOUSE" or Hbas fans chanting "Ole"?  Has anything been done about any of this?  The Centurion from the SCF was not his fault but the stench still remains because, frankly, nothing *NOTHING* has been done to allow us to forget it.

    This is a great example of you not getting it.

    ....aaand you're back to being unforgiven.

    Elaborate or full-on explain.


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    Re: Meddling Melnyk faces lawsuits.

    Post by wprager on Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:08 pm

    I've got some training in and experience with setting goals/objectives and evaluating performance. Am I an expert? No, but I've held supervisory roles off and on (mostly on) since 2000 and *in my opinion* that paragraph from from Leeder's performance review of O'Leary is weak.


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    Re: Meddling Melnyk faces lawsuits.

    Post by spader on Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:39 pm

    wprager wrote:
    spader wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    spader wrote:First of all, none of us are in a position to evaluate any of these guys. Are you guys serious? I've said it before and I'll say it again, you must be a real treat to work with, prags.

    I've worked as a s/w manager for a number of years, and I've taken a few courses on goal-setting and evaluating performance.  I've written my share of annual performance reviews.  That snippet they had from Leeder's evaluation of O'Leary was quite weak from *my* vantage point, and for an executive role I would have expected even more.  Objectives for an executive-level position cannot be to "prioritize the big rocks", "deliver high volume of output"  or to work late.  It should be more like "Grow STH base to X", "Improve in-game entertainment  evaluation scores Y%", "Identify customers' three biggest concerns and develop plan to address them".

    From those kinds of objectives the performance evaluation would have been something like "STH base decreased 10% YoY versus objective to grow by 10%".  Other than the Prime Minster Races do we have anything  you find interesting, funny or exciting before/after games and during intermissions?  Are you still bothered by drunk, loud Leafs fans shouting "THIS IS OUR HOUSE" or Hbas fans chanting "Ole"?  Has anything been done about any of this?  The Centurion from the SCF was not his fault but the stench still remains because, frankly, nothing *NOTHING* has been done to allow us to forget it.

    This is a great example of you not getting it.

    ....aaand you're back to being unforgiven.

    Elaborate or full-on explain.

    What's the point? If you think you're in a position to evaluate the executive branch of the hockey team, more power to you.  Clapping
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    Re: Meddling Melnyk faces lawsuits.

    Post by wprager on Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:48 pm

    I'm only evaluating the performance review to counter the argument that said "But he had a glowing performance review".


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