Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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    Oglethorpe
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:43 pm

    I wish people would realize Turris was not signing here for 6M.  He took 6 in Nashville because of the tax difference.  He wanted 7 here which is why the term was never negotiated.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:45 pm

    Duchene is a much better player than Turris. Sure Duchene could be better defensively but Turris couldn’t spell Selke.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:07 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:I wish people would realize Turris was not signing here for 6M.  He took 6 in Nashville because of the tax difference.  He wanted 7 here which is why the term was never negotiated.

    Even Dorion said bothe the turris and Ottawa camp had agreed on the numbers just not the length of the term.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:06 pm

    That works like this. 

    Dorion - we can go 6. 
    Turris - I want 7
    Dorion - I can’t go over 6
    Turris - then I’ll go 6.5
    Dorion - I can probably get to 6.5 for 4 years
    Turris - if it’s under 7 it has to be 8 years 
    Dorion - you’ve been traded to Nashville
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:25 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:Tracking the Duchene trade.  Stats from the principals so far.  

    Turris 26GP 5G 14A +4
    Duchene 26GP 6G 4A -9

    I think we see these a lot closer by the end of the season.
    Updated:

    Turris 27GP 5G 14A +4
    Duchene 28GP 6G 6A -9
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:26 pm

    Always nice to hand the leafs a reg loss.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:27 pm

    Nice enough game by Andy.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:35 am

    If they go .500 the rest of the way they will have 79 points, which pretty much guarantee a top 6-10 pick.

    We can't have Anderson playing like last night if we want a decent chance at the lottery.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:36 am

    But it's always fun beating the Leafs. Check out the #FireBabcock hashtag on Twitter for some laughs. Leafs are something like 1-6-1 under Babs in the Battle of Ontario. 0-2 this season.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:12 am

    Speaking of the draft.  There are 4 players I like, Dahlen, Svechnikov, Zadina and now Tkachuk.  When the ping pong balls drop if we are top 5 we should keep it, if we are 11 or later the pick is automatically gone. My thought if we are 6-10 is that we offer the pick to Col this year for a 2nd.  Recoup our 2nd rounder and still have next years first.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by tim1_2 on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:44 am

    Nice to see the bounce back from Matrix and it's always great to hand the Leafs a nice big L. I'm still not sure what to make of that Leafs team...some of their young D certainly seem to be getting better. I'm not convinced Andersen is the guy to lead them to the promise land in goal though.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:25 am

    The leafs are good but JVR is a big piece and I don’t see how they keep him.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:33 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:Speaking of the draft.  There are 4 players I like, Dahlen, Svechnikov, Zadina and now Tkachuk.  When the ping pong balls drop if we are top 5 we should keep it, if we are 11 or later the pick is automatically gone. My thought if we are 6-10 is that we offer the pick to Col this year for a 2nd.  Recoup our 2nd rounder and still have next years first.

    I think Ev said it a few weeks back but I am not concerned about getting picks back. If the Sens are to trade assets they will get picks or better yet prospects back in return.

    I do agree with you about the use of our first rd pick. That said, I don't expect us to be this bad next year and would still prefer to draft 8-10 this year, hoping that we're back in the playoffs next year and we give Col a 15th+ pick.

    At the end of the day the draft is a crap shoot. There is never a guarantee that a top five pick becomes a superstar.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:42 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:Duchene is a much better player than Turris. Sure Duchene could be better defensively but Turris couldn’t spell Selke.

    Duchene is fantastic and it seems clear that he's developed chemistry with Hoffman. Ryan has looked really good with them too, but I would prefer a more defensive forward who isn't afraid to go into corners, dig out pucks, and stand in front of the net as the other winger. White didn't look bad there and I think will be the logical person on that line but he's not ready for top six minutes just yet.

    Chlapik also looks really good. Anyone who can get Dumont and Burrows going will be a good NHLer.

    With the emergence of White and Chlapik, does this pave the way for some changes in the bottom six and replacement of Ryan short-term in the top-six?

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:52 pm

    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Anderson signed his retirement contract. No motivation to be good anymore. Last year he was playing for a contract extension. Condon too. No urgency for these guys to give that little extra it takes to win. That said they're athletes and athletes hate losing. So the above post about car racing etc I don't think is warranted. Condon may have been a flash (see Hammond) and has been proven to crumble under pressure (see tenure in Montreal). Anderson simply put is well past his prime. But the problem isn't goaltending.

    But the team sucks. Goalies out. Or forwards to goalies. However you want to see it. Too many old slow players well past their prime. Burrows could very well be the worst player in the NHL. Dorion rushed to extend players that were undeserving of the major contracts they were given. Phaneuf and Ryan contracts are crippling the team disabling them to sign good players. If we didn't have Phaneuf we would have Turris.

    The season is lost. Best thing the Sens can do is try to offload some contracts without destroying the future. Ie: Smith, Ceci, Anderson, Phaneuf if you can. Move Ryan to LTIR so he can fix his fingers for good, White can play in his place, and the Euge can recoup some money. If Karl indicates he doesn't want to be here trade him. Re-sign Stone and Duchene, and build around them, Chabot and the prospects coming in.  

    #AllInForDahlin

    Probably not. Turris was asking for far too much. We couldn't sign him regardless of Phaneuf.

    I also wouldn't trade Smith. Great contract IMO.

    $6M a year isn't too much. It's fair market value for a good 2nd line center. Remember, Brass has a cap hit of $5M on a front-ended contract that was signed many years ago. Adjusted for present value relative to the cap hit, $6M for a 2nd line center isn't bad now, and in 2-3 years will be a really affordable deal.

    Smith doesn't have a bad contract, I agree, but the Euge is going to want to trim salary. Here's Dorion's problem:

    Duchene isn't going anywhere
    Stone will be re-signed
    Brassard is a great value contract and won't be traded (right now)
    Hoffman is also good value and probably shouldn't be traded (right now)
    Ryan is unmoveable
    Pageau is a fan favourite (but could be moved)
    Burrows is untradeable. Worst player in the NHL
    Pyatt and Thompson are low cost contracts. Could be moved but doesn't hurt to keep them
    Dumont is a plug. Speaks volumes to Dorion's intelligence
    Smith has a good contract but long-term we may not need him

    Karlsson trade if he doesn't want to be here
    Phaneuf is untradeable unless you take bad salaries back (Seabrook, Moulson?)
    Ceci's value is pretty low right now, if not rock bottom. You essentially trade him so the fan base doesn't lose their $hit when the Sens re-sign him
    Claesson is underperforming but can be moved
    Harpur is underperforming but can be moved
    Wideman probably doesn't get re-signed. Injured
    Oduya better get traded or else
    Boro is good value for 5-7 dman (I suppose)

    Anderson is underperforming and overpaid. Contract is terrible.
    Condon is underperforming and overpaid. Contract is terrible.

    Not a lot of options for Dorion unless you start trading with other sellers to try and add pieces moving forward. But no other 'seller' wants our crap.

    A lot of questionable and insulting comments you just made IMO.

    "Dumont is a plug. Speaks volumes to Dorion's intelligence" That's just a silly statement. Dorion is a hockey lifer and knows how to evaluate players. Calling out his intelligence for claiming a low cost 4th line player? Who cares? That doesn't not "speak volumes" about anything. My god, fans overrated the tiniest of moves.

    "Burrows is untradeable. Worst player in the NHL" lol, ok then. Worst player in the NHL is a huge overreaction.

    Turris would never has accepted $6M here, and he's not somebody you want to pay that kind of money. He disappears for large stretches.

    Anderson contract isn't terrible, it's market value for a top starter. IMO he will have a good year next year. Condon contract isn't terrible either, he's a backup with starter potential who is getting paid as such

    If I were the Sens, I couldn't care less what the fans think when it comes to contracts and who I sign. Most fans don't have a clue about anything.

    The majority of these comments were warranted. You are entitled to your opinion as am I. I went to the Chicago game and saw first hand how bad this team was. Not to mention the announced attendance was 14,000 of which I'd say at least 5,000 if not more of those in attendance were Hawks fans.

    I can sit here and address the counter points you made but I feel as though I'd be arguing just for the sake of arguing. You have your opinion and I have mine.

    The only comment that I will rebut is: "If I were the Sens, I couldn't care less what the fans think when it comes to contracts and who I sign. Most fans don't have a clue about anything". Unless you are buying 18,000 tickets a night yourself then I would agree with you. The Sens wouldn't and shouldn't care about their fans' opinions if they were selling out. Fact is attendance is crap because the fans do have a clue and are pissed off about a lot of bonehead decisions this franchise has made. There is a lot of information that fans aren't privy to, but the fans are what drives the team's financial success which given competent management would drive the team's on-ice success. However, if the fans are not happy then they're not going to buy tickets. That's exactly what's happening right now. I spent $150 the other night for two tickets, 4 beers, and parking. For a sporting event that's expensive but on par with league average. The fact that I saw the home team get blown out 8-2 was a complete waste of my time, not worth the investment, and I left with the feeling that I won't be going to another game this season.

    My opinion.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Ev on Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:47 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Anderson signed his retirement contract. No motivation to be good anymore. Last year he was playing for a contract extension. Condon too. No urgency for these guys to give that little extra it takes to win. That said they're athletes and athletes hate losing. So the above post about car racing etc I don't think is warranted. Condon may have been a flash (see Hammond) and has been proven to crumble under pressure (see tenure in Montreal). Anderson simply put is well past his prime. But the problem isn't goaltending.

    But the team sucks. Goalies out. Or forwards to goalies. However you want to see it. Too many old slow players well past their prime. Burrows could very well be the worst player in the NHL. Dorion rushed to extend players that were undeserving of the major contracts they were given. Phaneuf and Ryan contracts are crippling the team disabling them to sign good players. If we didn't have Phaneuf we would have Turris.

    The season is lost. Best thing the Sens can do is try to offload some contracts without destroying the future. Ie: Smith, Ceci, Anderson, Phaneuf if you can. Move Ryan to LTIR so he can fix his fingers for good, White can play in his place, and the Euge can recoup some money. If Karl indicates he doesn't want to be here trade him. Re-sign Stone and Duchene, and build around them, Chabot and the prospects coming in.  

    #AllInForDahlin

    Probably not. Turris was asking for far too much. We couldn't sign him regardless of Phaneuf.

    I also wouldn't trade Smith. Great contract IMO.

    $6M a year isn't too much. It's fair market value for a good 2nd line center. Remember, Brass has a cap hit of $5M on a front-ended contract that was signed many years ago. Adjusted for present value relative to the cap hit, $6M for a 2nd line center isn't bad now, and in 2-3 years will be a really affordable deal.

    Smith doesn't have a bad contract, I agree, but the Euge is going to want to trim salary. Here's Dorion's problem:

    Duchene isn't going anywhere
    Stone will be re-signed
    Brassard is a great value contract and won't be traded (right now)
    Hoffman is also good value and probably shouldn't be traded (right now)
    Ryan is unmoveable
    Pageau is a fan favourite (but could be moved)
    Burrows is untradeable. Worst player in the NHL
    Pyatt and Thompson are low cost contracts. Could be moved but doesn't hurt to keep them
    Dumont is a plug. Speaks volumes to Dorion's intelligence
    Smith has a good contract but long-term we may not need him

    Karlsson trade if he doesn't want to be here
    Phaneuf is untradeable unless you take bad salaries back (Seabrook, Moulson?)
    Ceci's value is pretty low right now, if not rock bottom. You essentially trade him so the fan base doesn't lose their $hit when the Sens re-sign him
    Claesson is underperforming but can be moved
    Harpur is underperforming but can be moved
    Wideman probably doesn't get re-signed. Injured
    Oduya better get traded or else
    Boro is good value for 5-7 dman (I suppose)

    Anderson is underperforming and overpaid. Contract is terrible.
    Condon is underperforming and overpaid. Contract is terrible.

    Not a lot of options for Dorion unless you start trading with other sellers to try and add pieces moving forward. But no other 'seller' wants our crap.

    A lot of questionable and insulting comments you just made IMO.

    "Dumont is a plug. Speaks volumes to Dorion's intelligence" That's just a silly statement. Dorion is a hockey lifer and knows how to evaluate players. Calling out his intelligence for claiming a low cost 4th line player? Who cares? That doesn't not "speak volumes" about anything. My god, fans overrated the tiniest of moves.

    "Burrows is untradeable. Worst player in the NHL" lol, ok then. Worst player in the NHL is a huge overreaction.

    Turris would never has accepted $6M here, and he's not somebody you want to pay that kind of money. He disappears for large stretches.

    Anderson contract isn't terrible, it's market value for a top starter. IMO he will have a good year next year. Condon contract isn't terrible either, he's a backup with starter potential who is getting paid as such

    If I were the Sens, I couldn't care less what the fans think when it comes to contracts and who I sign. Most fans don't have a clue about anything.

    The majority of these comments were warranted. You are entitled to your opinion as am I. I went to the Chicago game and saw first hand how bad this team was. Not to mention the announced attendance was 14,000 of which I'd say at least 5,000 if not more of those in attendance were Hawks fans.

    I can sit here and address the counter points you made but I feel as though I'd be arguing just for the sake of arguing. You have your opinion and I have mine.

    The only comment that I will rebut is: "If I were the Sens, I couldn't care less what the fans think when it comes to contracts and who I sign. Most fans don't have a clue about anything". Unless you are buying 18,000 tickets a night yourself then I would agree with you. The Sens wouldn't and shouldn't care about their fans' opinions if they were selling out. Fact is attendance is crap because the fans do have a clue and are pissed off about a lot of bonehead decisions this franchise has made. There is a lot of information that fans aren't privy to, but the fans are what drives the team's financial success which given competent management would drive the team's on-ice success. However, if the fans are not happy then they're not going to buy tickets. That's exactly what's happening right now. I spent $150 the other night for two tickets, 4 beers, and parking. For a sporting event that's expensive but on par with league average. The fact that I saw the home team get blown out 8-2 was a complete waste of my time, not worth the investment, and I left with the feeling that I won't be going to another game this season.

    My opinion.  

    Every season there will be bad nights. I went Friday and it was fantastic. I don’t think fans aren’t coming because of trades and signings made. It’s all BS to me. You are entitled to an opinion, and this comment isn’t directed towards yours, but not all opinions matter. The fans in this city have have terrible for the last five years and it’s appalling IMO
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:15 pm

    It just feels like the Sens have had more than their share this season.

    In the long term this is just one season. I've been a fan of this team for nearly a quarter century. I feel very good about a rebound year next season. Karlsson will be fully healed and won't miss any of season or preseason training; Anderson will have good typical great year after a down year; Chabot over Oduya; Chlapik over Dumont; White over Pyatt; Duchene here from day one.

    We will still have Phaneuf, Ryan will still be overpaid, there will still be question marks over the future of Karlsson and Duchene. But I think there will be enough improvements overall for the team to be top three in the Atlantic, which will make it a lot easier to convince them to stay.

    Oduya gone for sure. I think they'll be able to move Pyatt and Thompson. In hoping they will buy out Burrows. Dumont is on a two way.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:28 pm

    wprager wrote:It just feels like the Sens have had more than their share this season.

    In the long term this is just one season. I've been a fan of this team for nearly a quarter century.  I feel very good about a rebound year next season. Karlsson will be fully healed and won't miss any of season or preseason training; Anderson will have good typical great year after a down year; Chabot over Oduya; Chlapik over Dumont; White over Pyatt; Duchene here from day one.  

    We will still have Phaneuf, Ryan will still be overpaid, there will still be question marks over the future of Karlsson and Duchene. But I think there will be enough improvements overall for the team to be top three in the Atlantic, which will make it a lot easier to convince them to stay.

    Oduya gone for sure. I think they'll be able to move Pyatt and Thompson. In hoping they will buy out Burrows. Dumont is on a two way.

    It's comments like this that I find strange. Why get rid of Thompson and Pyatt. You get value out of them. It's guys like Smith and Pageau that you aren't getting value out of. They will make almost 7M next year combined and produce no offence. Those are the kind of players who should be replaced by the prospects.

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