Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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    Ev
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Ev on Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:47 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Anderson signed his retirement contract. No motivation to be good anymore. Last year he was playing for a contract extension. Condon too. No urgency for these guys to give that little extra it takes to win. That said they're athletes and athletes hate losing. So the above post about car racing etc I don't think is warranted. Condon may have been a flash (see Hammond) and has been proven to crumble under pressure (see tenure in Montreal). Anderson simply put is well past his prime. But the problem isn't goaltending.

    But the team sucks. Goalies out. Or forwards to goalies. However you want to see it. Too many old slow players well past their prime. Burrows could very well be the worst player in the NHL. Dorion rushed to extend players that were undeserving of the major contracts they were given. Phaneuf and Ryan contracts are crippling the team disabling them to sign good players. If we didn't have Phaneuf we would have Turris.

    The season is lost. Best thing the Sens can do is try to offload some contracts without destroying the future. Ie: Smith, Ceci, Anderson, Phaneuf if you can. Move Ryan to LTIR so he can fix his fingers for good, White can play in his place, and the Euge can recoup some money. If Karl indicates he doesn't want to be here trade him. Re-sign Stone and Duchene, and build around them, Chabot and the prospects coming in.  

    #AllInForDahlin

    Probably not. Turris was asking for far too much. We couldn't sign him regardless of Phaneuf.

    I also wouldn't trade Smith. Great contract IMO.

    $6M a year isn't too much. It's fair market value for a good 2nd line center. Remember, Brass has a cap hit of $5M on a front-ended contract that was signed many years ago. Adjusted for present value relative to the cap hit, $6M for a 2nd line center isn't bad now, and in 2-3 years will be a really affordable deal.

    Smith doesn't have a bad contract, I agree, but the Euge is going to want to trim salary. Here's Dorion's problem:

    Duchene isn't going anywhere
    Stone will be re-signed
    Brassard is a great value contract and won't be traded (right now)
    Hoffman is also good value and probably shouldn't be traded (right now)
    Ryan is unmoveable
    Pageau is a fan favourite (but could be moved)
    Burrows is untradeable. Worst player in the NHL
    Pyatt and Thompson are low cost contracts. Could be moved but doesn't hurt to keep them
    Dumont is a plug. Speaks volumes to Dorion's intelligence
    Smith has a good contract but long-term we may not need him

    Karlsson trade if he doesn't want to be here
    Phaneuf is untradeable unless you take bad salaries back (Seabrook, Moulson?)
    Ceci's value is pretty low right now, if not rock bottom. You essentially trade him so the fan base doesn't lose their $hit when the Sens re-sign him
    Claesson is underperforming but can be moved
    Harpur is underperforming but can be moved
    Wideman probably doesn't get re-signed. Injured
    Oduya better get traded or else
    Boro is good value for 5-7 dman (I suppose)

    Anderson is underperforming and overpaid. Contract is terrible.
    Condon is underperforming and overpaid. Contract is terrible.

    Not a lot of options for Dorion unless you start trading with other sellers to try and add pieces moving forward. But no other 'seller' wants our crap.

    A lot of questionable and insulting comments you just made IMO.

    "Dumont is a plug. Speaks volumes to Dorion's intelligence" That's just a silly statement. Dorion is a hockey lifer and knows how to evaluate players. Calling out his intelligence for claiming a low cost 4th line player? Who cares? That doesn't not "speak volumes" about anything. My god, fans overrated the tiniest of moves.

    "Burrows is untradeable. Worst player in the NHL" lol, ok then. Worst player in the NHL is a huge overreaction.

    Turris would never has accepted $6M here, and he's not somebody you want to pay that kind of money. He disappears for large stretches.

    Anderson contract isn't terrible, it's market value for a top starter. IMO he will have a good year next year. Condon contract isn't terrible either, he's a backup with starter potential who is getting paid as such

    If I were the Sens, I couldn't care less what the fans think when it comes to contracts and who I sign. Most fans don't have a clue about anything.

    The majority of these comments were warranted. You are entitled to your opinion as am I. I went to the Chicago game and saw first hand how bad this team was. Not to mention the announced attendance was 14,000 of which I'd say at least 5,000 if not more of those in attendance were Hawks fans.

    I can sit here and address the counter points you made but I feel as though I'd be arguing just for the sake of arguing. You have your opinion and I have mine.

    The only comment that I will rebut is: "If I were the Sens, I couldn't care less what the fans think when it comes to contracts and who I sign. Most fans don't have a clue about anything". Unless you are buying 18,000 tickets a night yourself then I would agree with you. The Sens wouldn't and shouldn't care about their fans' opinions if they were selling out. Fact is attendance is crap because the fans do have a clue and are pissed off about a lot of bonehead decisions this franchise has made. There is a lot of information that fans aren't privy to, but the fans are what drives the team's financial success which given competent management would drive the team's on-ice success. However, if the fans are not happy then they're not going to buy tickets. That's exactly what's happening right now. I spent $150 the other night for two tickets, 4 beers, and parking. For a sporting event that's expensive but on par with league average. The fact that I saw the home team get blown out 8-2 was a complete waste of my time, not worth the investment, and I left with the feeling that I won't be going to another game this season.

    My opinion.  

    Every season there will be bad nights. I went Friday and it was fantastic. I don’t think fans aren’t coming because of trades and signings made. It’s all BS to me. You are entitled to an opinion, and this comment isn’t directed towards yours, but not all opinions matter. The fans in this city have have terrible for the last five years and it’s appalling IMO

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:15 pm

    It just feels like the Sens have had more than their share this season.

    In the long term this is just one season. I've been a fan of this team for nearly a quarter century. I feel very good about a rebound year next season. Karlsson will be fully healed and won't miss any of season or preseason training; Anderson will have good typical great year after a down year; Chabot over Oduya; Chlapik over Dumont; White over Pyatt; Duchene here from day one.

    We will still have Phaneuf, Ryan will still be overpaid, there will still be question marks over the future of Karlsson and Duchene. But I think there will be enough improvements overall for the team to be top three in the Atlantic, which will make it a lot easier to convince them to stay.

    Oduya gone for sure. I think they'll be able to move Pyatt and Thompson. In hoping they will buy out Burrows. Dumont is on a two way.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:28 pm

    wprager wrote:It just feels like the Sens have had more than their share this season.

    In the long term this is just one season. I've been a fan of this team for nearly a quarter century.  I feel very good about a rebound year next season. Karlsson will be fully healed and won't miss any of season or preseason training; Anderson will have good typical great year after a down year; Chabot over Oduya; Chlapik over Dumont; White over Pyatt; Duchene here from day one.  

    We will still have Phaneuf, Ryan will still be overpaid, there will still be question marks over the future of Karlsson and Duchene. But I think there will be enough improvements overall for the team to be top three in the Atlantic, which will make it a lot easier to convince them to stay.

    Oduya gone for sure. I think they'll be able to move Pyatt and Thompson. In hoping they will buy out Burrows. Dumont is on a two way.

    It's comments like this that I find strange. Why get rid of Thompson and Pyatt. You get value out of them. It's guys like Smith and Pageau that you aren't getting value out of. They will make almost 7M next year combined and produce no offence. Those are the kind of players who should be replaced by the prospects.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:39 pm

    I remember sAying losing Methot was no big deal because he only gives yo about 60 games now that he is breaking down. I guess I was overestimating as he is at 16 games played this year and will be out for another 2 weeks. Dodged a bullet there.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:23 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    wprager wrote:It just feels like the Sens have had more than their share this season.

    In the long term this is just one season. I've been a fan of this team for nearly a quarter century.  I feel very good about a rebound year next season. Karlsson will be fully healed and won't miss any of season or preseason training; Anderson will have good typical great year after a down year; Chabot over Oduya; Chlapik over Dumont; White over Pyatt; Duchene here from day one.  

    We will still have Phaneuf, Ryan will still be overpaid, there will still be question marks over the future of Karlsson and Duchene. But I think there will be enough improvements overall for the team to be top three in the Atlantic, which will make it a lot easier to convince them to stay.

    Oduya gone for sure. I think they'll be able to move Pyatt and Thompson. In hoping they will buy out Burrows. Dumont is on a two way.

    It's comments like this that I find strange.  Why get rid of Thompson and Pyatt.  You get value out of them. It's guys like Smith and Pageau that you aren't getting value out of.  They will make almost 7M next year combined and produce no offence.  Those are the kind of players who should be replaced by the prospects.
    I don’t see how Pageau doesn’t figure into your equation if we are just retooling. He’s a guy you don’t want to loose if we are to get back to the playoffs Next year. I agree with smith though
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:26 pm

    What is Pageau giving us that Pyatt isn’t.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:17 pm

    Pyatt hasn't done much. That goal was his first point in 10 games. 4 goals in a half season where he played no lower that the third line and quite a bit of time in the top six.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:55 pm

    He played 27% of his time with Pageau and Smith, 26% with Pageau and Hoffman, 14% with Brassard and Stone for crying out loud.



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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:04 pm

    And I’d like to add that pageau is a big game player. Shows up when you need him the most. Knows when to bring it to the next level.

    The whole team was Ina funk for the start of the season. I’m not gonna peg it on pageau.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:54 pm

    Great value in Pyatt.  Pageau 33 points last year Pyatt 23.  Pyatt numbers are better than Pageau this year by a hair.  Simple fact is Pageau makes 3.3 next year versus 1.2 for Pyatt. Same argument for Thompson over Smith.  Pageau and Smith are overpaid for what they produce.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:28 am

    [size=30]Yeah but Pageau still has upside, is arguably having a down year and elevated his game in big moments and the playoffs. It’s not just about stats.[/size]

    [size=30]I don’t want him traded and not only because he’s good but because he won’t bring back much.[/size]

    [size=30]He reminds me of vermette but harder to play against.[/size]
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:30 am

    What the? My phone doing weird things
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:57 am

    Pageau would net a better return than Smith IMO. Either way 3.3 is too much for a 3rd line centre when White and Brown are coming.  I don’t think there is anymore upside with Pageau.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:06 pm

    Not sure about that. Outside of the Habs and Rangers, who knows much about Pageau? Smith has size and was a favorite of other GMs in the past.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:37 pm

    I usually don't bother reading Yost (he just bugs the crap out of me) but I didn't know it was his article until after I clicked, so I went ahead and read it.
    https://www.tsn.ca/talent/the-problems-run-deep-in-ottawa-1.965444

    Basically, strictly looking at offense (goals per 60) out bottom six forward group (Pageau, Smith, Pyatt, Thompson, Dumont, Burrows) are dead last in the league.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:41 pm

    I usually don't bother reading Yost (he just bugs the crap out of me) but I didn't know it was his article until after I clicked, so I went ahead and read it.
    https://www.tsn.ca/talent/the-problems-run-deep-in-ottawa-1.965444

    Basically, strictly looking at offense (goals per 60) out bottom six forward group (Pageau, Smith, Pyatt, Thompson, Dumont, Burrows) are dead last in the league.

    Not just below average. Dead. Last. 31st in a 31-team league.

    And when you add in the fact that Burrows takes a regular PP shift on the second unit, and that Pyatt had spent a non trivial percentage of his ice time in the top six, it makes that 31st place even worse.

    And they are all signed through next season or beyond.

    I don't know about you, but I would prefer that my underproducing bottom six players were young guys on an upward curve and not players well past their formative years, and some clearly on the decline.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:32 pm

    Well Dumont will be replaced by McCormick and Pyatt will stay.  Burrows likely won’t be bought out or sent to the minors.  So if you want to change the bottom six your options are Pageau 3.3M, Smith 3.25M and Thompson 1.65M.  

    White and Chlailk are 925K and 728K.  Replacing Pageau and Smith with White and Chlapik pays for Stone’s raise.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:02 am

    Apparently, according to Garrioch, there's interest in both Burrows and Oduya.  

    I didn't think Milbury was still GMing anywhere.


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