GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Share

    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 21266
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by Ev on Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:49 am

    Flo The Action wrote:Well this is no surprise...

    Man, we are sliding into a lottery position.
    Good luck resigning kalrsson and duchene.

    Comments like this are just ridiculous when the reason we are in this position rests on guys like Karlsson. Are fans this blind or naive?

    Oglethorpe
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 2093
    Registration date : 2010-08-31

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by Oglethorpe on Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:25 am

    If Karlsson doesn't want to sign so be it. †Same with Duchesne. The important things for Dorion is don't get desperate to save the season, and if EK and Duch don't sign in early July make the trades by mid July before teams are finished settling on their rosters.

    wprager
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Number of posts : 48676
    Registration date : 2008-08-05

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by wprager on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:01 am

    Ev wrote:
    wprager wrote:I think with Methot gone they are leaning more on Ceci as the #1 shut down guy, which he clearly is not. Also Boro has missed a substantial number of games, now. †Those factors, plus poor goaltending, is why we are giving up so many chances and goals.

    Karlsson's 8 game pointless streak is why we aren't scoring much.

    Not true, Ceci had that role even with methot here

    I still think Ceci had more "help" - for lack of a better word.

    Interestingly, he had more SH and ES TOI per game last year. But something has changed.

    DefenceWinsChampionships
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 2271
    Age : 88
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-05-23

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:19 am

    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:Well this is no surprise...

    Man, we are sliding into a lottery position.
    Good luck resigning kalrsson and duchene.

    Comments like this are just ridiculous when the reason we are in this position rests on guys like Karlsson. Are fans this blind or naive?

    It's the average fan that buys tickets, buys merchandise, calls into the radio shows, and ultimately forms the majority. I don't think it's fair to call anyone blind or naÔve. Everyone interprets situations differently and is entitled to their opinions. You and I have had our disagreements in the past and both of our comments have been warranted. A good example was our 'debate' about Thompson. As an 'average fan' I was pissed that Ottawa signed him while you countered with the fact that he's one of the best 4th line center in the league. At the end of the day, he's a good 4th line center, but he's a 4th line center on a crappy team that never needed a 4th line center. This team needs youth and speed not players past their prime who can't contribute. Sens PK and GAA is amongst the league's worst, their powerplay the same. So what impact is having a 4th line center when the rest of your team sucks?

    Reality is, from a fan's perspective, we have a coach that boxes exciting players into a boring defensive system, won't play younger and more talented players who have something to prove over players he 'trust' and 'likes', and bases his coaching decisions on ignoring analytics. Look at the Leafs. All youth and they play an exciting brand of hockey. So why can't Boucher do the same?

    You have a GM who signs slow, declining depth players at the expense of injecting youth and speed into the lineup, has no sense of player valuation, and holds on to assets until they are no longer tradable.

    The Sens have an owner who has a history of being cheap, acting like an idiot in front of the media, and is rumored to want to sell the team.

    I agree with Flo on this. The team is trending in the wrong direction. Turris never needed to be traded. Fans were happy with him, the community even happier. Dorion traded a top-end prospect for Burrows who is well past his prime and can't even keep up with the speed of the game. Added plugs like Oduya who is incredibly slow, Dumont who shouldn't even be in the NHL, and yes Thompson who plays a minimal role on this team. Where are Pageau and Smith? Why is Ryan playing if he's hurt? Why isn't Ceci scratched? All things considered the Sens are an old, slow, underwhelming team. Methot and MacArthur were replaced by stop-gaps. They were key pieces that continue to result in the team suffering.

    So ya if I'm Karlsson or Duchene and I get the sense that management is going to fleece them on a new contract or don't see the team heading in the right direction I am walking. Yes this is a business but at the end of the day these guys are athletes and also want to win.
    avatar
    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 21266
    Age : 27
    Location : We The North
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by Ev on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:30 am

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:Well this is no surprise...

    Man, we are sliding into a lottery position.
    Good luck resigning kalrsson and duchene.

    Comments like this are just ridiculous when the reason we are in this position rests on guys like Karlsson. Are fans this blind or naive?

    It's the average fan that buys tickets, buys merchandise, calls into the radio shows, and ultimately forms the majority. I don't think it's fair to call anyone blind or naÔve. Everyone interprets situations differently and is entitled to their opinions. You and I have had our disagreements in the past and both of our comments have been warranted. A good example was our 'debate' about Thompson. As an 'average fan' I was pissed that Ottawa signed him while you countered with the fact that he's one of the best 4th line center in the league. At the end of the day, he's a good 4th line center, but he's a 4th line center on a crappy team that never needed a 4th line center. This team needs youth and speed not players past their prime who can't contribute. Sens PK and GAA is amongst the league's worst, their powerplay the same. So what impact is having a 4th line center when the rest of your team sucks? †

    Reality is, from a fan's perspective, we have a coach that boxes exciting players into a boring defensive system, won't play younger and more talented players who have something to prove over players he 'trust' and 'likes', and bases his coaching decisions on ignoring analytics. Look at the Leafs. All youth and they play an exciting brand of hockey. So why can't Boucher do the same?

    You have a GM who signs slow, declining depth players at the expense of injecting youth and speed into the lineup, has no sense of player valuation, and holds on to assets until they are no longer tradable.

    The Sens have an owner who has a history of being cheap, acting like an idiot in front of the media, and is rumored to want to sell the team. † †

    I agree with Flo on this. The team is trending in the wrong direction. Turris never needed to be traded. Fans were happy with him, the community even happier. Dorion traded a top-end prospect for Burrows who is well past his prime and can't even keep up with the speed of the game. Added plugs like Oduya who is incredibly slow, Dumont who shouldn't even be in the NHL, and yes Thompson who plays a minimal role on this team. Where are Pageau and Smith? Why is Ryan playing if he's hurt? Why isn't Ceci scratched? All things considered the Sens are an old, slow, underwhelming team. Methot and MacArthur were replaced by stop-gaps. They were key pieces that continue to result in the team suffering.

    So ya if I'm Karlsson or Duchene and I get the sense that management is going to fleece them on a new contract or don't see the team heading in the right direction I am walking. Yes this is a business but at the end of the day these guys are athletes and also want to win.

    First of all that first comment makes no sense. The team did need a 4th line centre, they lost their entire fourth line in the offseason. Thompson has been worth it, without question. You're acting like they chose to sign him over a 1st line player lol. That makes no sense.

    You completely missed the point of my post. "Karlsson wouldn't want to be a part of a rebuild" is not a smart statement because he's one of the biggest reasons we're even in this position this season. His play has been lacklustre to say the least. If he wants to leave and rob somebody of 12+ mill then go for it. I hope he returns to form and signs here, and I don't think he wants to leave.

    Fans and the community mean nothing when it comes to player decisions. You need to understand this. Turris did need to be traded because they weren't going to sign him to his extension. That extension would have been criticized by hypocrite fans two years down the road. W'ere already seeing the hypocrisy run rampant. "TUrris isn't a true 1st line centre, he's so weak and not hard to play against" followed by "How could you trade Turris! Look at his point totals on Nashville!". Turris was not a core piece to this team and was never going to be signed to the overpayment he got in Nashville.

    "Reality is, from a fan's perspective, we have a coach that boxes exciting players into a boring defensive system, won't play younger and more talented players who have something to prove over players he 'trust' and 'likes', and bases his coaching decisions on ignoring analytics. Look at the Leafs. All youth and they play an exciting brand of hockey. So why can't Boucher do the same? "

    Pretty simple, the Sens didn't suck for a decade and accumulate picks like the Leafs did. The Sens are fine right now, this is just a down year. They have the core pieces and prospects needed to sustain success. They needed Boucher's defensive system last year to do well. This year, they aren't playing it well. That's not on the coach.

    And that;s false about making players play defensive, boring style. Karlsson produced at a PPG clip last season. It's all on the players. They have the ability to produce regardless of what system they're playing.

    DefenceWinsChampionships
    Veteran
    Veteran

    Number of posts : 2271
    Age : 88
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-05-23

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:16 am

    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:Well this is no surprise...

    Man, we are sliding into a lottery position.
    Good luck resigning kalrsson and duchene.

    Comments like this are just ridiculous when the reason we are in this position rests on guys like Karlsson. Are fans this blind or naive?

    It's the average fan that buys tickets, buys merchandise, calls into the radio shows, and ultimately forms the majority. I don't think it's fair to call anyone blind or naÔve. Everyone interprets situations differently and is entitled to their opinions. You and I have had our disagreements in the past and both of our comments have been warranted. A good example was our 'debate' about Thompson. As an 'average fan' I was pissed that Ottawa signed him while you countered with the fact that he's one of the best 4th line center in the league. At the end of the day, he's a good 4th line center, but he's a 4th line center on a crappy team that never needed a 4th line center. This team needs youth and speed not players past their prime who can't contribute. Sens PK and GAA is amongst the league's worst, their powerplay the same. So what impact is having a 4th line center when the rest of your team sucks? †

    Reality is, from a fan's perspective, we have a coach that boxes exciting players into a boring defensive system, won't play younger and more talented players who have something to prove over players he 'trust' and 'likes', and bases his coaching decisions on ignoring analytics. Look at the Leafs. All youth and they play an exciting brand of hockey. So why can't Boucher do the same?

    You have a GM who signs slow, declining depth players at the expense of injecting youth and speed into the lineup, has no sense of player valuation, and holds on to assets until they are no longer tradable.

    The Sens have an owner who has a history of being cheap, acting like an idiot in front of the media, and is rumored to want to sell the team. † †

    I agree with Flo on this. The team is trending in the wrong direction. Turris never needed to be traded. Fans were happy with him, the community even happier. Dorion traded a top-end prospect for Burrows who is well past his prime and can't even keep up with the speed of the game. Added plugs like Oduya who is incredibly slow, Dumont who shouldn't even be in the NHL, and yes Thompson who plays a minimal role on this team. Where are Pageau and Smith? Why is Ryan playing if he's hurt? Why isn't Ceci scratched? All things considered the Sens are an old, slow, underwhelming team. Methot and MacArthur were replaced by stop-gaps. They were key pieces that continue to result in the team suffering.

    So ya if I'm Karlsson or Duchene and I get the sense that management is going to fleece them on a new contract or don't see the team heading in the right direction I am walking. Yes this is a business but at the end of the day these guys are athletes and also want to win.

    First of all that first comment makes no sense. The team did need a 4th line centre, they lost their entire fourth line in the offseason. Thompson has been worth it, without question. You're acting like they chose to sign him over a 1st line player lol. That makes no sense.

    You completely missed the point of my post. "Karlsson wouldn't want to be a part of a rebuild" is not a smart statement because he's one of the biggest reasons we're even in this position this season. His play has been lacklustre to say the least. If he wants to leave and rob somebody of 12+ mill then go for it. I hope he returns to form and signs here, and I don't think he wants to leave.

    Fans and the community mean nothing when it comes to player decisions. You need to understand this. Turris did need to be traded because they weren't going to sign him to his extension. That extension would have been criticized by hypocrite fans two years down the road. W'ere already seeing the hypocrisy run rampant. "TUrris isn't a true 1st line centre, he's so weak and not hard to play against" followed by "How could you trade Turris! Look at his point totals on Nashville!". Turris was not a core piece to this team and was never going to be signed to the overpayment he got in Nashville.

    "Reality is, from a fan's perspective, we have a coach that boxes exciting players into a boring defensive system, won't play younger and more talented players who have something to prove over players he 'trust' and 'likes', and bases his coaching decisions on ignoring analytics. Look at the Leafs. All youth and they play an exciting brand of hockey. So why can't Boucher do the same? "

    Pretty simple, the Sens didn't suck for a decade and accumulate picks like the Leafs did. The Sens are fine right now, this is just a down year. They have the core pieces and prospects needed to sustain success. They needed Boucher's defensive system last year to do well. This year, they aren't playing it well. That's not on the coach.

    And that;s false about making players play defensive, boring style. Karlsson produced at a PPG clip last season. It's all on the players. They have the ability to produce regardless of what system they're playing.

    Karlsson is playing with a surgically repaired Achilles tendon and on a surgically repaired ankle/heel. He's not 100% and probably never will be again. I've been saying it for some time that if you take the speed out of Karlsson's game he's just an average defenceman. I personally think (and I will probably regret saying this) that Dorion should be quietly shopping him and building the team the right way. Not a rebuild, but a reset. Karlsson is not worth the contract he will get and signing him to a big deal may jeopardize the quality of the rest of the roster.

    They didn't need a 4th line center. Last year they lost Stalberg and Wingels from their playoff roster - Wingels was a healthy scratch for a lot of the playoffs so they ultimately lost Stalberg. They could have survived with putting someone down there from Belleville whether it be Chlapik, Paul, McCormick, White, etc. At the end of the day I don't really care about Thompson, but to me it seems like their focus should have been addressing MacArthur and Methot's departures which they didn't do. That's the point I am making. Their focus should have been in other areas and they addressed an area that didn't need to be prioritized.

    Was it an overpayment in Nashville? $6M x 6 for a defensively sound top-two center who can slide into a #1 spot isn't a bad contract. The whole Turris-Duchene trade is clearly being overshadowed by Duchene's inability to put points up which is why people are crapping all over Dorion. I agree with your point in that most Sens have flip-flopped with Turris. I think he got fair value on his contract. The concern most fans have is that Duchene appears to be struggling in Ottawa while Turris is flourishing. It's pretty similar to Brassard and Zib. Zib is doing well in New York. Brass isn't doing bad here, but it goes to show that maybe there is something wrong with Ottawa's deployment of players and/or their system.

    As for injecting youth, I agree that players need to be developed in the minors. We don't have the same pedigree of prospects that Toronto has but at some point you have to move away from vets past their prime. I don't see the risk of dressing prospects over Dumont and Burrows. I am not saying White or Brown, but am suggesting maybe giving McCormick and Paul some more ice time. What's the harm at this point? White and Brown will be on this team next year. They need the year to develop and to develop properly.

    Where we seem to disagree is that you think the Sens are fine. I am not sure that they are. They have some good pieces but there are too many injuries and players underperforming right now. I don't think Dorion should be making panic moves to save the season by mortgaging the future. What he does need to do is assess what this team needs to be successful going forward. To me Karlsson isn't worth his next contract only because of his injury history and age. I am certainly not questioning his talent level. But Dorion has to ask himself if Karlsson is the type of player he wants to build his team around. I see the Sens building around Stone and Duchene personally, and think it important that they take this year to really assess what this team is capable of doing. I'd love to see a Karlsson for Tavares swap somehow. To me, JT is the type of player to build your team around, not Karlsson.
    avatar
    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 21266
    Age : 27
    Location : We The North
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by Ev on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:25 am

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:Well this is no surprise...

    Man, we are sliding into a lottery position.
    Good luck resigning kalrsson and duchene.

    Comments like this are just ridiculous when the reason we are in this position rests on guys like Karlsson. Are fans this blind or naive?

    It's the average fan that buys tickets, buys merchandise, calls into the radio shows, and ultimately forms the majority. I don't think it's fair to call anyone blind or naÔve. Everyone interprets situations differently and is entitled to their opinions. You and I have had our disagreements in the past and both of our comments have been warranted. A good example was our 'debate' about Thompson. As an 'average fan' I was pissed that Ottawa signed him while you countered with the fact that he's one of the best 4th line center in the league. At the end of the day, he's a good 4th line center, but he's a 4th line center on a crappy team that never needed a 4th line center. This team needs youth and speed not players past their prime who can't contribute. Sens PK and GAA is amongst the league's worst, their powerplay the same. So what impact is having a 4th line center when the rest of your team sucks? †

    Reality is, from a fan's perspective, we have a coach that boxes exciting players into a boring defensive system, won't play younger and more talented players who have something to prove over players he 'trust' and 'likes', and bases his coaching decisions on ignoring analytics. Look at the Leafs. All youth and they play an exciting brand of hockey. So why can't Boucher do the same?

    You have a GM who signs slow, declining depth players at the expense of injecting youth and speed into the lineup, has no sense of player valuation, and holds on to assets until they are no longer tradable.

    The Sens have an owner who has a history of being cheap, acting like an idiot in front of the media, and is rumored to want to sell the team. † †

    I agree with Flo on this. The team is trending in the wrong direction. Turris never needed to be traded. Fans were happy with him, the community even happier. Dorion traded a top-end prospect for Burrows who is well past his prime and can't even keep up with the speed of the game. Added plugs like Oduya who is incredibly slow, Dumont who shouldn't even be in the NHL, and yes Thompson who plays a minimal role on this team. Where are Pageau and Smith? Why is Ryan playing if he's hurt? Why isn't Ceci scratched? All things considered the Sens are an old, slow, underwhelming team. Methot and MacArthur were replaced by stop-gaps. They were key pieces that continue to result in the team suffering.

    So ya if I'm Karlsson or Duchene and I get the sense that management is going to fleece them on a new contract or don't see the team heading in the right direction I am walking. Yes this is a business but at the end of the day these guys are athletes and also want to win.

    First of all that first comment makes no sense. The team did need a 4th line centre, they lost their entire fourth line in the offseason. Thompson has been worth it, without question. You're acting like they chose to sign him over a 1st line player lol. That makes no sense.

    You completely missed the point of my post. "Karlsson wouldn't want to be a part of a rebuild" is not a smart statement because he's one of the biggest reasons we're even in this position this season. His play has been lacklustre to say the least. If he wants to leave and rob somebody of 12+ mill then go for it. I hope he returns to form and signs here, and I don't think he wants to leave.

    Fans and the community mean nothing when it comes to player decisions. You need to understand this. Turris did need to be traded because they weren't going to sign him to his extension. That extension would have been criticized by hypocrite fans two years down the road. W'ere already seeing the hypocrisy run rampant. "TUrris isn't a true 1st line centre, he's so weak and not hard to play against" followed by "How could you trade Turris! Look at his point totals on Nashville!". Turris was not a core piece to this team and was never going to be signed to the overpayment he got in Nashville.

    "Reality is, from a fan's perspective, we have a coach that boxes exciting players into a boring defensive system, won't play younger and more talented players who have something to prove over players he 'trust' and 'likes', and bases his coaching decisions on ignoring analytics. Look at the Leafs. All youth and they play an exciting brand of hockey. So why can't Boucher do the same? "

    Pretty simple, the Sens didn't suck for a decade and accumulate picks like the Leafs did. The Sens are fine right now, this is just a down year. They have the core pieces and prospects needed to sustain success. They needed Boucher's defensive system last year to do well. This year, they aren't playing it well. That's not on the coach.

    And that;s false about making players play defensive, boring style. Karlsson produced at a PPG clip last season. It's all on the players. They have the ability to produce regardless of what system they're playing.

    Karlsson is playing with a surgically repaired Achilles tendon and on a surgically repaired ankle/heel. He's not 100% and probably never will be again. I've been saying it for some time that if you take the speed out of Karlsson's game he's just an average defenceman. I personally think (and I will probably regret saying this) that Dorion should be quietly shopping him and building the team the right way. Not a rebuild, but a reset. Karlsson is not worth the contract he will get and signing him to a big deal may jeopardize the quality of the rest of the roster.

    They didn't need a 4th line center. Last year they lost Stalberg and Wingels from their playoff roster - Wingels was a healthy scratch for a lot of the playoffs so they ultimately lost Stalberg. They could have survived with putting someone down there from Belleville whether it be Chlapik, Paul, McCormick, White, etc. At the end of the day I don't really care about Thompson, but to me it seems like their focus should have been addressing MacArthur and Methot's departures which they didn't do. That's the point I am making. Their focus should have been in other areas and they addressed an area that didn't need to be prioritized.

    Was it an overpayment in Nashville? $6M x 6 for a defensively sound top-two center who can slide into a #1 spot isn't a bad contract. The whole Turris-Duchene trade is clearly being overshadowed by Duchene's inability to put points up which is why people are crapping all over Dorion. I agree with your point in that most Sens have flip-flopped with Turris. I think he got fair value on his contract. The concern most fans have is that Duchene appears to be struggling in Ottawa while Turris is flourishing. It's pretty similar to Brassard and Zib. Zib is doing well in New York. Brass isn't doing bad here, but it goes to show that maybe there is something wrong with Ottawa's deployment of players and/or their system.

    As for injecting youth, I agree that players need to be developed in the minors. We don't have the same pedigree of prospects that Toronto has but at some point you have to move away from vets past their prime. I don't see the risk of dressing prospects over Dumont and Burrows. I am not saying White or Brown, but am suggesting maybe giving McCormick and Paul some more ice time. What's the harm at this point? White and Brown will be on this team next year. They need the year to develop and to develop properly.

    Where we seem to disagree is that you think the Sens are fine. I am not sure that they are. They have some good pieces but there are too many injuries and players underperforming right now. I don't think Dorion should be making panic moves to save the season by mortgaging the future. What he does need to do is assess what this team needs to be successful going forward. To me Karlsson isn't worth his next contract only because of his injury history and age. I am certainly not questioning his talent level. But Dorion has to ask himself if Karlsson is the type of player he wants to build his team around. I see the Sens building around Stone and Duchene personally, and think it important that they take this year to really assess what this team is capable of doing. I'd love to see a Karlsson for Tavares swap somehow. To me, JT is the type of player to build your team around, not Karlsson. †

    Just to clarify, I didn't mean they're fine for this season, I meant going forward. This season is close to being considered done.

    And about ZIbanejad, they were never going to re-sign him and he is very injury prone. He has a concussion again and is being evaluated by specialists. He will be out of hockey very soon.
    avatar
    PTFlea
    Co-Founder
    Co-Founder

    Number of posts : 54713
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-07-31

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by PTFlea on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:51 am

    It's very disappointing to me personally that when Karlsson takes his first major slump/poor play, the entire team folds. It's that kind of thing that makes me want to take a long, hard look at the forwards. Our defence is not good, it got patchworked by goaltending last year, but we're in deep Dung there. Ceci has long been overrated, Phaneuf is having an off year, Oduya is a scrub and then we're to rely on rookies and sophomores to carry the rest of the load? No can do right now.

    Anderson has been absolutely horrible as well. Get your head screwed on straight or take a leave of absence again.

    Another thing. I can't watch this Dung very much, it's like Cussing paint drying mixed with a pulpy murder mystery where you know the ending after the opening credits, but the entrance into opponent's zones is Dung. We always try to chip and chase or we try to go wide along the walls and then circle back and Diddle around. The skilled team enter the zone with authority, make a couple of passes and get chances. We're not doing that - and that's a coaching thing. Get your heads out of your asses or it'll be a huge problem for the coaching staff - and soon.

    Very disappointed right now, lazy bastards!
    avatar
    tim1_2
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 16819
    Age : 35
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-01-07

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by tim1_2 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:23 am

    Lots of good points/discussion here. It's a little funny, because much of the discussion has been about defense/goaltending, but perhaps the biggest issue is the lack of goal scoring.

    I agree the defense hasn't been good this year, and the goaltending hasn't been very good either, but at some point ya gotta score some goals. Last year we won a ton of tight games, and this year they're all going the other way when they're close. There's no magic bullet to fix this issue. Duchene was brought in to provide the offense a bit of a boost and it hasn't worked out yet. Bobby's been ice cold since returning from injury. Karlsson's not himself. Brassard has cooled off. Smith is doing nothing, and the list goes on.

    We've got a full team slump going right now and it sucks. The one bright spot is that the Atlantic apparently only has two good teams (Tampa and Toronto), so that 3rd playoff spot is still up for grabs. We're only 5 points out with a couple games in hand. The problem is that this slump has to be shaken off very soon and there's no signs pointing to that happening.
    avatar
    Flo The Action
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 13739
    Age : 41
    Location : montreal
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-12-18

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:26 pm

    Letís get a few things clear here. Iím not a naive fan neither am I missing the big picture. Contrary to what you are saying this situation isnít resting on kalrsson (or necessarily on duchene).

    This whole mess falls on this group and management and to an equal extent ownship.

    The fact that a drop in kalrssonís ability coincides with a drop in the teamís winning is worrisome to say the least. We should be more than a one man team. The fact that management thought that by replacing an equally good player as Turris by a guy like duchene also points to their im ability to see or adress the glaring holes in this line-up. Adding duchene would have been great, replacing Turris for duchene is a sideways move at best. This also signaled that the org is still working under an internal budget. And if you think kalrsson hasnít figured that one out then youíre largely mistaken. If anything heís voiced his displeasure at ownership several times throughout his tenure here. So letís not be surprised if Now there are rumblings of him wanting to hit FA. This does fall on ownership and management. Yes it was their job to make this team competitive to show him we could compete but still decided to do it on a budget. Iím sorry but going all in often requires he team to max themselves to the cap. That hasnít been shown yet.
    I fear that if a change in ownership doesnít happen more or less by July we might as wel l kiss our chance to resign him (and duchene). Where would that leave us? Well Iím not sure but unlike a lot of people Iím not comfortable with a reset, or rebuild. It seems like management has put their eggs in on basket and is hoping to win the cup. Iím sure we could recoup some assets from karlsson and duchene. But itís unlikely we could walk away with a generational talent. Those seem to wind up winning cups in the end. I also donít think this is it for kalrsson as a top player. Iím not sure this injury will hamper him forever but Iím not a doctor. All I know is trading kalrsson will not do this fan base any favours, will not sell tickets and will downvalue the worth of this franchise. I lo think that the make-up of this team, the age of its players and the age of their prospect place them Ina win now mode and not a restart.

    If this organization is to maximize its value it needs to go all in in the long run(not really just this year) it needs to acquire players that can compete now and can add not switch sideways players in the line-up. We need upgrades. Boucher is playing guys that he is given. He canít make create miracles. Like all coaches we can disagree with some decisions(mainly oduya) but if that means we are losing a game then we arenít built to win anyhow.
    Iíll repeat. We need a top 4 Dman added and a top 6 forward. Iím a strong believer that even if we miss the playoffs, if we can finish the year strong of competing for a spot it will go a long ways to resigning both duchene and kalrsson. But the thing I want the most is a change in ownership. Melnyk has poisoned this team and the players for years with what his statement and the style of management heís imposed on this team to the point where itís reflected in what players say.
    avatar
    PTFlea
    Co-Founder
    Co-Founder

    Number of posts : 54713
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-07-31

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by PTFlea on Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:31 pm

    I think Boucher has until this time next week and if it hasn't changed, he's gone. The team has tuned him out. His shelf life was supposed to be 2 years, maybe 3, but it's happened so quick.
    avatar
    tim1_2
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 16819
    Age : 35
    Location : Ottawa
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2011-01-07

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by tim1_2 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:45 pm

    PTFlea wrote:I think Boucher has until this time next week and if it hasn't changed, he's gone. †The team has tuned him out. †His shelf life was supposed to be 2 years, maybe 3, but it's happened so quick.

    I really don't see him getting canned. If he does, it'll likely just be Crawford taking over for the time being and I don't see that turning the team around. For real, how can "the system" work fine for a year and then suddenly go in the toilet? Sounds like a player issue that I'd hate to see the coach pay the price for.
    avatar
    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 21266
    Age : 27
    Location : We The North
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by Ev on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:18 pm

    Seriously, why should a coach be fired every time a team misses the playoffs? Makes no sense.
    avatar
    PTFlea
    Co-Founder
    Co-Founder

    Number of posts : 54713
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-07-31

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by PTFlea on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:22 pm

    Ev wrote:Seriously, why should a coach be fired every time a team misses the playoffs? Makes no sense.

    You know why this would happen. Dorion was super excited about this team before he went out and spent all those assets on Duchene. Now...the team has lost 10 of 11 or whatever nightmare it is. You think he's prepared to sit there and watch us fall to a lottery pick knowing it's his job on the line as well?

    I think Boucher has a limited amount of time to get this back on track. This isn't a blip, this is something extreme going on here in Ottawa.
    avatar
    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 21266
    Age : 27
    Location : We The North
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by Ev on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:28 pm

    PTFlea wrote:
    Ev wrote:Seriously, why should a coach be fired every time a team misses the playoffs? Makes no sense.

    You know why this would happen. †Dorion was super excited about this team before he went out and spent all those assets on Duchene. †Now...the team has lost 10 of 11 or whatever nightmare it is. †You think he's prepared to sit there and watch us fall to a lottery pick knowing it's his job on the line as well?

    I think Boucher has a limited amount of time to get this back on track. †This isn't a blip, this is something extreme going on here in Ottawa.

    They barely spent assets on Duchene, IMO. A rental at the deadline who isn't of the same quality could go for a 1st rounder himself.

    This is a blip in my opinion. It's on the players, and it's on injuries. They had one great season and one bad season so far. You don't fire a guy over that.
    avatar
    Ev
    Franchise Player
    Franchise Player

    Number of posts : 21266
    Age : 27
    Location : We The North
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2010-02-09

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by Ev on Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:37 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:Letís get a few things clear here. Iím not a naive fan neither am I missing the big picture. Contrary to what you are saying this situation isnít resting on kalrsson (or necessarily on duchene).

    This whole mess falls on this group and management and to an equal extent ownship.

    The fact that a drop in kalrssonís ability coincides with a drop in the teamís winning is worrisome to say the least. We should be more than a one man team. The fact that management thought that by replacing an equally good player as Turris by a guy like duchene also points to their im ability to see or adress the glaring holes in this line-up. Adding duchene would have been great, replacing Turris for duchene is a sideways move at best. This also signaled that the org is still working under an internal budget. And if you think kalrsson hasnít figured that one out then youíre largely mistaken. If anything heís voiced his displeasure at ownership several times throughout his tenure here. So letís not be surprised if Now there are rumblings of him wanting to hit FA. This does fall on ownership and management. Yes it was their job to make this team competitive to show him we could compete but still decided to do it on a budget. Iím sorry but going all in often requires he team to max themselves to the cap. That hasnít been shown yet.
    I fear that if a change in ownership doesnít happen more or less by July we might as wel l kiss our chance to resign him (and duchene). Where would that leave us? Well Iím not sure but unlike a lot of people Iím not comfortable with a reset, or rebuild. It seems like management has put their eggs in on basket and is hoping to win the cup. Iím sure we could recoup some assets from karlsson and duchene. But itís unlikely we could walk away with a generational talent. Those seem to wind up winning cups in the end. I also donít think this is it for kalrsson as a top player. Iím not sure this injury will hamper him forever but Iím not a doctor. All I know is trading kalrsson will not do this fan base any favours, will not sell tickets and will downvalue the worth of this franchise. I lo think that the make-up of this team, the age of its players and the age of their prospect place them Ina win now mode and not a restart.

    If this organization is to maximize its value it needs to go all in in the long run(not really just this year) it needs to acquire players that can compete now and can add not switch sideways players in the line-up. We need upgrades. Boucher is playing guys that he is given. He canít make create miracles. Like all coaches we can disagree with some decisions(mainly oduya) but if that means we are losing a game then we arenít built to win anyhow.
    Iíll repeat. We need a top 4 Dman added and a top 6 forward. Iím a strong believer that even if we miss the playoffs, if we can finish the year strong of competing for a spot it will go a long ways to resigning both duchene and kalrsson. But the thing I want the most is a change in ownership. Melnyk has poisoned this team and the players for years with what his statement and the style of management heís imposed on this team to the point where itís reflected in what players say.

    Let's get one thing straight, Karlsson has no impact on the future value of the franchise. Players come and go, he will be replaced eventually, and new stars emerge. The franchise value is not dictated by a Swedish defenceman who has never won a Cup.
    avatar
    PTFlea
    Co-Founder
    Co-Founder

    Number of posts : 54713
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-07-31

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by PTFlea on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:35 pm

    Let's put this all to rest and win 8 in a row.
    avatar
    Flo The Action
    All-Star
    All-Star

    Number of posts : 13739
    Age : 41
    Location : montreal
    Favorite Team : Ottawa
    Registration date : 2008-12-18

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:16 pm

    Iím Ev wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:Letís get a few things clear here. Iím not a naive fan neither am I missing the big picture. Contrary to what you are saying this situation isnít resting on kalrsson (or necessarily on duchene).

    This whole mess falls on this group and management and to an equal extent ownship.

    The fact that a drop in kalrssonís ability coincides with a drop in the teamís winning is worrisome to say the least. We should be more than a one man team. The fact that management thought that by replacing an equally good player as Turris by a guy like duchene also points to their im ability to see or adress the glaring holes in this line-up. Adding duchene would have been great, replacing Turris for duchene is a sideways move at best. This also signaled that the org is still working under an internal budget. And if you think kalrsson hasnít figured that one out then youíre largely mistaken. If anything heís voiced his displeasure at ownership several times throughout his tenure here. So letís not be surprised if Now there are rumblings of him wanting to hit FA. This does fall on ownership and management. Yes it was their job to make this team competitive to show him we could compete but still decided to do it on a budget. Iím sorry but going all in often requires he team to max themselves to the cap. That hasnít been shown yet.
    I fear that if a change in ownership doesnít happen more or less by July we might as wel l kiss our chance to resign him (and duchene). Where would that leave us? Well Iím not sure but unlike a lot of people Iím not comfortable with a reset, or rebuild. It seems like management has put their eggs in on basket and is hoping to win the cup. Iím sure we could recoup some assets from karlsson and duchene. But itís unlikely we could walk away with a generational talent. Those seem to wind up winning cups in the end. I also donít think this is it for kalrsson as a top player. Iím not sure this injury will hamper him forever but Iím not a doctor. All I know is trading kalrsson will not do this fan base any favours, will not sell tickets and will downvalue the worth of this franchise. I lo think that the make-up of this team, the age of its players and the age of their prospect place them Ina win now mode and not a restart.

    If this organization is to maximize its value it needs to go all in in the long run(not really just this year) it needs to acquire players that can compete now and can add not switch sideways players in the line-up. We need upgrades. Boucher is playing guys that he is given. He canít make create miracles. Like all coaches we can disagree with some decisions(mainly oduya) but if that means we are losing a game then we arenít built to win anyhow.
    Iíll repeat. We need a top 4 Dman added and a top 6 forward. Iím a strong believer that even if we miss the playoffs, if we can finish the year strong of competing for a spot it will go a long ways to resigning both duchene and kalrsson. But the thing I want the most is a change in ownership. Melnyk has poisoned this team and the players for years with what his statement and the style of management heís imposed on this team to the point where itís reflected in what players say.

    Let's get one thing straight, Karlsson has no impact on the future value of the franchise. Players come and go, he will be replaced eventually, and new stars emerge. The franchise value is not dictated by a Swedish defenceman who has never won a Cup.
    Are you kidding me? In every valuation of any company you can put the value of key employees under contract in it. ANY VALUATION! Of course having a karlsson signed as a player long term can increase the price someone has to pay for a franchise. Thatís the most ridiculous thing youíve said in weeks. These are marketable assets and they impact the success and revenues of a team. Seriously

    Sponsored content

    Re: GDT: Senators @ Ducks - Dec 6, 2017, 10:00pm

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:53 am