Who's The First To Go (And Where)

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    DefenceWinsChampionships
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:19 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:Teams that can fit in Tavares next year:

    Toronto - Plenty of space even with Matthews coming up after next season.
    Comment: Matthews, Marner, Kapanen, Nylander all need raises. Probaly at least $25M right there in re-signs. They're also atrocious of defence. Matthews already stating he wants close to max.

    Montreal - More cap space than brains with Bergevin (and they should put down 14M per as he is what they have been trying to get for years).
    Comment: Agreed. Good fit and definitely a need. But high taxes and he's a Toronto boy. But he's probably buds with Price. So who knows.

    Dallas - Not sure if it's a great fit but its a no tax state
    Comment: Yupp. Not sure if it's a great fit but it does have some logic to it.

    Boston - Not really a fit as they have PB and Kreji locked up long term but Kreji has been a bit of a question mark with his health lately.
    Comment: too many up and coming players that will need to be re-signed in the short term. Plus as you mentioned PB and K are already there.

    Vancouver - Good Bye Henrik and Daniel, Hello JT
    Comment: I see Van as a logical place for Karlsson to be honest. They need defence in the worst way there.

    Rangers - I expect them to be a major player if he doesn't do the expected and re-up with NYI.
    Comment: Agreed. Losing Nash opens the door for sure. And hard to say no to that NY lifestyle.

    Philly - Wouldn't be shocked if they sniff around, even if to hurt both NY clubs
    Comment: They can't sign him, they would need to move salary.

    There are others, but I think these would be the main players.
    Comment: Agreed

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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:44 pm

    I think it makes incredible sense to add Tavares and that’s likely why it won’t happen. This team won’t have two 12 mill players on their roster on top of 4 more in the 7 mill range (phaneuf, Ryan, stone and duchene). You’d have to shed phaneuf contract and boby’s For anything like that to happen. And it won’t .
    I’m a little pessimistic also, I don’t believe we’ll retain both kalrsson and duchene. Duchene is the most likely to go. Things haven’t been very fun this season for the Sens. Why would he sign an extention this summer?
    If we manage to sign him it will be before the trade deadline next year and that’s only if the team has a fantastic start to the season and we once again look like contenders by then. But that won’t happen unless we do a serious retool.

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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Oglethorpe on Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:13 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:I think it makes incredible sense to add Tavares and that’s likely why it won’t happen. This team won’t have two 12 mill players on their roster on top of 4 more in the 7 mill range (phaneuf, Ryan, stone and duchene). You’d have to shed phaneuf contract and boby’s For anything like that to happen. And it won’t .
    I’m a little pessimistic also, I don’t believe we’ll retain both kalrsson and duchene. Duchene is the most likely to go. Things haven’t been very fun this season for the Sens. Why would he sign an extention this summer?
    If we manage to sign him it will be before the trade deadline next year and that’s only if the team has a fantastic start to the season and we once again look like contenders by then. But that won’t happen unless we do a serious retool.
    Fans have to wrap their heads around the fact Ottawa will never be getting the Top FAs unless there is a family/home sickness reason. With the taxes in Ontario, combined with a small market and the winters here it just isn't a destination even if we overpay a little. This doesn't bother me because its true for 2/3rds of the teams in the league for one reason or another.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:47 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I think it makes incredible sense to add Tavares and that’s likely why it won’t happen. This team won’t have two 12 mill players on their roster on top of 4 more in the 7 mill range (phaneuf, Ryan, stone and duchene). You’d have to shed phaneuf contract and boby’s For anything like that to happen. And it won’t .
    I’m a little pessimistic also, I don’t believe we’ll retain both kalrsson and duchene. Duchene is the most likely to go. Things haven’t been very fun this season for the Sens. Why would he sign an extention this summer?
    If we manage to sign him it will be before the trade deadline next year and that’s only if the team has a fantastic start to the season and we once again look like contenders by then. But that won’t happen unless we do a serious retool.
    Fans have to wrap their heads around the fact Ottawa will never be getting the Top FAs unless there is a family/home sickness reason.  With the taxes in Ontario, combined with a small market and the winters here it just isn't a destination even if we overpay a little.  This doesn't bother me because its true for 2/3rds of the teams in the league for one reason or another.
    I believe that’s true, right up until it isn’t.
    I think you wiggle the right amount of cash in front of someone and show you’re a real contender then show you will spend to win and you could get a top FA.
    Of course there’s a couple of those things we can’t do right now...

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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:52 am

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:I think it makes incredible sense to add Tavares and that’s likely why it won’t happen. This team won’t have two 12 mill players on their roster on top of 4 more in the 7 mill range (phaneuf, Ryan, stone and duchene). You’d have to shed phaneuf contract and boby’s For anything like that to happen. And it won’t .
    I’m a little pessimistic also, I don’t believe we’ll retain both kalrsson and duchene. Duchene is the most likely to go. Things haven’t been very fun this season for the Sens. Why would he sign an extention this summer?
    If we manage to sign him it will be before the trade deadline next year and that’s only if the team has a fantastic start to the season and we once again look like contenders by then. But that won’t happen unless we do a serious retool.
    Fans have to wrap their heads around the fact Ottawa will never be getting the Top FAs unless there is a family/home sickness reason.  With the taxes in Ontario, combined with a small market and the winters here it just isn't a destination even if we overpay a little.  This doesn't bother me because its true for 2/3rds of the teams in the league for one reason or another.
    I believe that’s true, right up until it isn’t.
    I think you wiggle the right amount of cash in front of someone and show you’re a real contender then show you will spend to win and you could get a top FA.
    Of course there’s a couple of those things we can’t do right now...

    On a dollar-in-dollar-out scenario it can be done. You can't move someone like Phaneuf for nothing, but if you retain 50% of his salary and trade him for a future you've saved $3.5M. Move Smith and Pageau and all of a sudden it's $10M. Add Burrows $12.5M, Oduya $13.5M, etc. It wouldn't be easy but it could be done. I still think Karlsson will be traded, so replacing Karl with Tavares, injecting some youth, and improving the defence would go a long way.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:49 am

    You couldn’t offer enough money to Tavares to make him come to Ottawa.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by tim1_2 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:37 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:You couldn’t offer enough money to Tavares to make him come to Ottawa.

    The whole scenario is just crazy and I know it's fun to dream, but reality has to come into the equation. Unless we ditch Karlsson and Duchene THIS year and then make some sort of crazy overpayment for Tavares, there's just no way to get him here.

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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:19 pm

    Honestly, if the sense is that Karlsson isn't going to re-sign (which appears to be growing everyday) I would trade him now and get max value back. Get some picks, high-end prospects, and rebuild. By the time we are good again in 3-4 years Karlsson will be beginning his decline, we'll be out of the Ryan/Phaneuf contracts and our prospects will hopefully have been developed by then.

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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:23 pm

    To Tampa: Karlsson
    To Ottawa: Point, Koekkoek, Raddysh, 2 1st rd picks

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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:24 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:To Tampa: Karlsson
    To Ottawa: Point, Koekkoek, Raddysh, 2 1st rd picks

    Umm I think Yzerman might piss himself from laughing too hard. Try Point a lesser prospect and a 1st.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:28 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Honestly, if the sense is that Karlsson isn't going to re-sign (which appears to be growing everyday) I would trade him now and get max value back. Get some picks, high-end prospects, and rebuild. By the time we are good again in 3-4 years Karlsson will be beginning his decline, we'll be out of the Ryan/Phaneuf contracts and our prospects will hopefully have been developed by then.
    Karlsson would be a fool not to sign a new deal in July.  He will be 29 when an 8 year deal kicks in.  He’s had 2 major ankle issues and has not shown himself to be the old EK yet, not sure he will get back.  If I’m Dorion I deal him at the draft when his value will be at its peak.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Ev on Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:48 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:To Tampa: Karlsson
    To Ottawa: Point, Koekkoek, Raddysh, 2 1st rd picks

    Umm I think Yzerman might piss himself from laughing too hard. Try Point a lesser prospect and a 1st.

    It would take Point + Sergachev + 1st minimum
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:00 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:To Tampa: Karlsson
    To Ottawa: Point, Koekkoek, Raddysh, 2 1st rd picks

    Umm I think Yzerman might piss himself from laughing too hard. Try Point a lesser prospect and a 1st.

    It would take Point + Sergachev + 1st minimum

    Yeah I think Ev is right. Koekkoek doesn’t have the value he used to.

    And it would likely take more than what Ev is mentioning.
    I was dreaming(more like nightmaring) possible scenarios for trading kalrsson and both the leafs and the NYI came up. Of course you don’t trade him to the leafs without a package including either marner or Nylander and same to the isles for a package including Barzal but you have to wonder. Especially if the isles want to retain Tavares. Those would be gutsy moves. You could probably get one of them to take on Ryan or phaneuf.

    When it all comes down I think the chances karlsson resigns are still higher than 50/50. Whether that’s good or not will likely depend on how well he actually rebounds from his surgery for next year. He likely will Lean towards resigning if a new ownership is in place. One that will pay to win.

    Very uncertain times for the Sens.
    I don’t think I could stomach another 4 year rebuild.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:25 pm

    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:To Tampa: Karlsson
    To Ottawa: Point, Koekkoek, Raddysh, 2 1st rd picks

    Umm I think Yzerman might piss himself from laughing too hard. Try Point a lesser prospect and a 1st.

    It would take Point + Sergachev + 1st minimum
    From Tampa’s perspective that is an overpay.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:03 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Ev wrote:
    Oglethorpe wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:To Tampa: Karlsson
    To Ottawa: Point, Koekkoek, Raddysh, 2 1st rd picks

    Umm I think Yzerman might piss himself from laughing too hard. Try Point a lesser prospect and a 1st.

    It would take Point + Sergachev + 1st minimum
    From Tampa’s perspective that is an overpay.


    Yeah, because the Karlsson’s and crosby’s of the world often become available? of course they have to overpay.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:14 pm

    No Way too much risk with Karlsson to pay that much. Somebody will overpay but it won’t be Tampa, Yzerman is smart and knows he needs those ELCs to manage the next Kucherov contract.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:22 pm

    Oglethorpe wrote:No Way too much risk with Karlsson to pay that much. Somebody will overpay but it won’t be Tampa, Yzerman is smart and knows he needs those ELCs to manage the next Kucherov contract.
    karlsson still has this and next year at 6.5. If yzerman can win one or two cups with a line-up that includes kalrsson who says he resigns him after that? Gives him plenty of time to figure out what he has. Plus the cap seems to be going up so who knows?
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by tim1_2 on Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:34 am

    Even if it's Point, Sergachev, and a 1st from Tampa, I am not happy with that from a Sens perspective. That first rounder is a 27 to 30 overall pick, and Sergachev has a lot left to prove. I really like Point, so yeah, I'd like to see him included.

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