Who's The First To Go (And Where)

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    wprager
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by wprager on Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:12 pm

    There Islanders are not trading Barzal.

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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Lagoon on Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:05 pm

    wprager wrote:There Islanders are not trading Barzal.

    You don’t know this.

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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:36 pm

    Lagoon wrote:
    wprager wrote:There Islanders are not trading Barzal.

    You don’t know this.

    Short of a one for one with Karlsson they’d get crucified from their fan base. And we can all agree we won’t take a one for one with Kalrsson.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Lagoon on Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:07 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Lagoon wrote:
    wprager wrote:There Islanders are not trading Barzal.

    You don’t know this.

    Short of a one for one with Karlsson they’d get crucified from their fan base. And we can all agree we won’t take a one for one with Kalrsson.

    You don’t know this, I don’t know this and won’t pretend too. Therefore, I won’t agree.

    When trades happen it catches everyone by surprise and pieces are added or omitted contrary to the “internet gm’s“ of the world.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:59 pm

    Lagoon wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    Lagoon wrote:
    wprager wrote:There Islanders are not trading Barzal.

    You don’t know this.

    Short of a one for one with Karlsson they’d get crucified from their fan base. And we can all agree we won’t take a one for one with Kalrsson.

    You don’t know this, I don’t know this and won’t pretend too. Therefore, I won’t agree.

    When trades happen it catches everyone by surprise and pieces are added or omitted contrary to the “internet gm’s“ of the world.
    Well obviously this is my opinion. But I’m basing my opinion on who I view as untouchables and what I think is value. In the end this is a forum board. For us to state what we believe is our logical truth.
    I don’t think snow would make Barzal available unless it was a clear win. And Ottawa would want a much bigger haul. That’s why these trades rarely happen. Where the best organizational player gets traded for the other teams best prospect alone. 
    Drouin for sergachev is the closest thing that comes to mind and still it’s not even close.

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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:18 am

    It sounds like it's going to be a fire-sale. I expect Dorion to make a few moves starting this week. IMO the only untouchables are Duchene, White, Chabot, Stone.

    I agree that Barzal is probably untouchable but he should certainly be what Dorion is asking price.

    Tampa still feels like the logical place to send him. A package of at least four of Namestnikov, Point, Koekkoek, Raddysh, Howden, Katchouk, Ingram, Hajek, Volkov would be what I am asking for. I'd up the ante and take on salary if it meant that they need to fit him in under their current cap. I'd take on Girardi or Stralman as they are UFA's after next season.

    Fun fact: Brassard has been the most looked up name on hockeydb this morning.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Oglethorpe on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:54 am

    No way I move Karlsson prior to the draft. There will be so many more options after the season.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:58 am

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:It sounds like it's going to be a fire-sale. I expect Dorion to make a few moves starting this week. IMO the only untouchables are Duchene, White, Chabot, Stone.

    I agree that Barzal is probably untouchable but he should certainly be what Dorion is asking price.

    Tampa still feels like the logical place to send him. A package of at least four of Namestnikov, Point, Koekkoek, Raddysh, Howden, Katchouk, Ingram, Hajek, Volkov would be what I am asking for. I'd up the ante and take on salary if it meant that they need to fit him in under their current cap. I'd take on Girardi or Stralman as they are UFA's after next season.

    Fun fact: Brassard has been the most looked up name on hockeydb this morning.


    If Tampa is trading for kalrsson there is no ifs and buts but sergachev has to be part of that deal. We are gonna need top pairing D’s down the line.

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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:38 pm

    If you trade Karlsson in the summer then you will 100% have more options in terms of teams you can trade him to and players available. No one wants to give up an impact player before playoff run, I 100% agree. But you're also taking on more risk in that he might sign somewhere else as a UFA if you're the team that acquires him.

    I believe Karlsson's value is higher now. If you trade him in-season, a team has two chances to win a cup with him on your roster, not one. I also think the Sens want high-end futures not roster players. They don't want to take on salary. They need money to re-sign Duchene and Stone. For a team wanting to win a cup now and next year, futures don't matter.

    This is why I think Tampa makes the most sense. I just don't see them trading Sergachev as he's under team control for a long time. Two more years of ELC + RFA years. Makes zero sense for them to trade him. They have enough prospects to get something done without including Sergachev.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Lagoon on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:53 am

    Smith, Brassard and maybe Burrows. Those three are destined to be traded in my opinion.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:56 am

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:If you trade Karlsson in the summer then you will 100% have more options in terms of teams you can trade him to and players available. No one wants to give up an impact player before playoff run, I 100% agree. But you're also taking on more risk in that he might sign somewhere else as a UFA if you're the team that acquires him.

    I believe Karlsson's value is higher now. If you trade him in-season, a team has two chances to win a cup with him on your roster, not one. I also think the Sens want high-end futures not roster players. They don't want to take on salary. They need money to re-sign Duchene and Stone. For a team wanting to win a cup now and next year, futures don't matter.

    This is why I think Tampa makes the most sense. I just don't see them trading Sergachev as he's under team control for a long time. Two more years of ELC + RFA years. Makes zero sense for them to trade him.  They have enough prospects to get something done without including Sergachev.

    I disagree. I fell like the Sens said they weren’t interested in futures. They wanted players to compete now. Of course things could have changed. But if they are looking at futures to rebuild then you can bet your Donkey that duchene will also be traded.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:57 am

    I have a feeling the pens could be eyeing Brass. They’d likely ask us to take on one of their contracts to make room. But that’s a move that makes sense for them.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Lagoon on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:13 pm

    Pittsburgh has tendency to make what turn out to be their best moves prior to the actual deadline, so we will see if Brassard is that. He fits the bill in my opinion.

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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:55 pm

    Dorion's approach to the deadline is polar:

    1) Either trade players for picks/futures in an attempt to free money for Karlsson

    2) Trade Karlsson and use the return to insulate the rest of the team.

    I've said it here before, but I think last year' run had a lot of luck behind it. Outstanding/inspired goaltending, a lot of one goal game wins, and injuries. We didn't need to play Toronto, Washington, Columbus or Montreal who could have all beaten us. We played an injured Bruins team and took them to six games - and a mentally frustrated Rangers team who should have beaten us. My opinion.

    However, at the end of the day Ottawa's goaltending is in shambles, their defence is brutal, offensively they're very average, and their farm team is a mess.

    Re-signing Karlsson doesn't fix any of your problems. You're just circumventing future cap space to pay someone more money then they're currently making. $12M/yr is a lot. He will get worse over time. He's playing injured and may never be the same. Ottawa will not win anything during his prime years. However, he's a generational talent who could rebound.

    It's hard to decipher what to do hence why the fan base is split. However, cap space comes at a premium on this team especially if you get players on ELC, RFA, picks as a return. You can insulate your team with high-end prospects, sign FA's, and all of a sudden the $12M in savings can go to a bunch of players on ELC's and FA's.

    Something to think about.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:07 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Dorion's approach to the deadline is polar:

    1) Either trade players for picks/futures in an attempt to free money for Karlsson

    2) Trade Karlsson and use the return to insulate the rest of the team.

    I've said it here before, but I think last year' run had a lot of luck behind it. Outstanding/inspired goaltending, a lot of one goal game wins, and injuries. We didn't need to play Toronto, Washington, Columbus or Montreal who could have all beaten us. We played an injured Bruins team and took them to six games - and a mentally frustrated Rangers team who should have beaten us. My opinion.

    However, at the end of the day Ottawa's goaltending is in shambles, their defence is brutal, offensively they're very average, and their farm team is a mess.

    Re-signing Karlsson doesn't fix any of your problems. You're just circumventing future cap space to pay someone more money then they're currently making. $12M/yr is a lot. He will get worse over time. He's playing injured and may never be the same. Ottawa will not win anything during his prime years. However, he's a generational talent who could rebound.

    It's hard to decipher what to do hence why the fan base is split. However, cap space comes at a premium on this team especially if you get players on ELC, RFA, picks as a return. You can insulate your team with high-end prospects, sign FA's, and all of a sudden the $12M in savings can go to a bunch of players on ELC's and FA's.

    Something to think about.

    I’ll would agree with you that luck played a big part of our run last year had we had been taken to the curb by Pittsburgh but no, we took them to the very end of a game 7. I think this team did over achieve last year but we were better than this team is showing this year. If anything management got too cocky about how this team was good. They didn’t feel the need to replace Methot, they asked a lot out of an unproven young D and only brought in Oduya. Goaltending has been a complete 180. Where we could count on them to provide key weaves last year and allow us to win by one goal games, goaltending has let in a few too many each games.
    I think had our backend been tighter, offence might have come more easily from our forwards.
    This team is a mess but one management should have seen coming.

    I’m glad they didn’t trade a ton of assets to bring in another declining veteran. But I think they do need to retool this summer. And I do think they do need to bring back kalrsson and duchene. But they should do all in their power to try and part ways with Ryan and/or phaneuf to create the cap room to do it. Even if that means a buyout(in Ryan’s case).

    This could easily be a blip in the Sens trajectory. We have a plethora of young talent and we could trade a few pieces to inject some more youth.
    I think the org should Be on the lookout for a potential number 1 G prospect in the upcoming trades. Gillies name has popped up in Calgary trade rumour and I think that’s a name the Sens should be looking at. Big guy that’s on the verge of making it in the NHL. Good transition timing with Anderson/Condon, especially if one of those two gets injured. Provides a couple of years to evealuate what he’s likely to be and more years for hodgberg to season in the AHL.

    It will be obviously be an interesting trade deadline and summer but I will be extremely disappointed if we trade kalrsson (and duchene, kalrsson goes so will he) as it will not only leave us with a ridiculously underwhelming backend with guys like Ceci and phaneuf likely to be moved also but will reset us back years in terms of contending as many of the players we currently have will likely be exiting.

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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:09 pm

    I can’t help but feel like the org is preparing to trade karlsson before next year as the dialogue around the org seems to be cantered around “drafting” and “scouting” which signals they are leaning towards a rebuild.

    I hope a full story some how breaks out in the end of how it has played itself out.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:28 pm

    Well there you have it folks. First one to go. So we have traded phaneuf’s Cap hit plus retaining 25% of his salary for Gaborik. So do they think Gaborik will remain on the IR or actually retire? Because isn’t that pretty much the same salary for us now going forward?
    I think we did LA a solid right there. Maybe Gaborik can still help us out. But if history serves, he won’t be playing much games. Maybe Ryan can now have a buddy to watch games from the press box when they’re injured.
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    Re: Who's The First To Go (And Where)

    Post by Flo The Action on Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:30 pm

    Not that phaneuf was a key piece to this team but does this accelerate our race to the bottom?

    Maybe phaneuf was brought in to advice Doughty against jumping ship to the leafs.

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