Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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    Lagoon
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Lagoon on Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:27 pm

    Vegas has some nice prospects besides Glass, but yes, if Ottawa is trading Karlsson, Glass is the main prospect coming back I would assume. After that give me Theodore or Miller both of whom are RFA’s. McNabb is on a beautiful contract for the game he plays. Brannstrom is next. Their 2nd in 2018 and 1st in 2019 is a given.

    Karlsson and Ryan for Miller, Tuch, Glass, 2018 2nd and 2019 1st. That’s close to a deal and would keep us competitive without Karlsson.

    Vegas still gets a lot of perks when it comes to roster protection and benefits, over and above the other 30 teams for Seattle’s expansion and still has tons of cap space so they are fine going forward with this deal or without.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:19 pm

    I hate this. I wish we could just sign the fing player. How many times do you get a player like this in your franchise? And Diddle you not giving up Glass or whatever. Ugh...I'll go hide under a rock until this is over

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:39 pm

    Lagoon wrote:Vegas has some nice prospects besides Glass, but yes, if Ottawa is trading Karlsson, Glass is the main prospect coming back I would assume. After that give me Theodore or Miller both of whom are RFA’s. McNabb is on a beautiful contract for the game he plays. Brannstrom is next. Their 2nd in 2018 and 1st in 2019 is a given.

    Karlsson and Ryan for Miller, Tuch, Glass, 2018 2nd and 2019 1st. That’s close to a deal and would keep us competitive without Karlsson.

    Vegas still gets a lot of perks when it comes to roster protection and benefits, over and above the other 30 teams for Seattle’s expansion and still has tons of cap space so they are fine going forward with this deal or without.
    I don’t know that Vegas agrees to that deal.
    I’m in the camp that believes our hands are a bit tied when it comes to karlsson, probably take tuch out of that deal to mKe it realistic and it still looks fairly good on our end.
    Glass will likely be a number 1C

    I’d ask for McNabb over Miller obviously.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:45 pm

    PTFlea wrote:I hate this.  I wish we could just sign the fing player.  How many times do you get a player like this in your franchise?  And Diddle you not giving up Glass or whatever.  Ugh...I'll go hide under a rock until this is over

    A Dman like kalrsson? Probably never again.
    A superstar elite player?
    We’d have a shot had we not given up that first for duchene.

    Could we suck for a number of years? Hard to tell. If Melnyk had his way we would, by keeping salary down and picking in the bottom 3 for the next 3 years.
    But the fan base doesn’t have the stomach for that. This fan base wouldn’t go to games if we sucked. Probably because of Melnyk partially.

    Under a different ownership? It’s a different proposition but I doubt it.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:59 am

    The thing with signing Karlsson now is the Euge is cash-strapped. An 8 year contract takes him to 36 years old. If he signs an 8 x $11M contract he'll probably want $15M+ up front for the first two or three years. The Euge can't afford that, especially if the team is going to be re-signing Duchene and Stone and his finances are as bad as what is being speculated.

    As much as it pains me to say this, from a Euge pocketbook perspective Dorion's best move is to package Ryan and Karlsson for futures, ELCs, and/or guys signed to smaller contracts. It sucks to be a fan under this ownership but if he is hell-bent on owning this team and the NHL doesn't force a sale then there is nothing we can do but be upset and hope the Sens can rebuild with the pieces we get back. I see two scenarios playing out.

    1: Keep Karlsson and Ryan but lose Hoffman, Smith, and Ceci without taking (significant) salary back. They will not add any UFAs of substance and will try to grow internally through the system. I do not envision any buyouts (though it makes financial sense to do so). A partner coming in for Karlsson via Hoffman trade whether it's with Calgary, EDM, or Philly. I have been proposing (Hoffman + Ceci + Harpur for Klefbom + 10th overall or some variation of this). I think Smith can be traded for Connor Murphy straight up). The D is better but still not great.

    Dzingel-Duchene-Stone
    #4 pick-Pageau-Ryan
    MPS-White-Gaborik
    Formenton-Pyatt-Burrows
    Extra: McCormick

    Klefbom-Karlsson
    Chabot-Murphy
    Wolanin-Boro

    Draft D-man (likely Ty Smith unless someone else falls) with 10th overall

    2: Trade Karlsson, Ryan, Hoffman, Smith. You risk losing Duchene and Stone but the pillars of the team would be Chabot and the rest of the prospect pools. I can't even begin to speculate what comes back the other way.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Lagoon on Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:32 am

    Flo The Action wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:I hate this.  I wish we could just sign the fing player.  How many times do you get a player like this in your franchise?  And Diddle you not giving up Glass or whatever.  Ugh...I'll go hide under a rock until this is over

    A Dman like kalrsson? Probably never again.
    A superstar elite player?
    We’d have a shot had we not given up that first for duchene.

    Could we suck for a number of years? Hard to tell. If Melnyk had his way we would, by keeping salary down and picking in the bottom 3 for the next 3 years.
    But the fan base doesn’t have the stomach for that. This fan base wouldn’t go to games if we sucked. Probably because of Melnyk partially.

    Under a different ownership? It’s a different proposition but I doubt it.

    Except we can’t do that as of right now because of the Duchene trade which gave Colorado our 1st in 2019. I’m almost positive you were just trying to prove Melnyk doesn’t care about winning at all costs, which I would agree with.
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    Post by Lagoon on Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:45 am

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:The thing with signing Karlsson now is the Euge is cash-strapped. An 8 year contract takes him to 36 years old. If he signs an 8 x $11M contract he'll probably want $15M+ up front for the first two or three years. The Euge can't afford that, especially if the team is going to be re-signing Duchene and Stone and his finances are as bad as what is being speculated.

    As much as it pains me to say this, from a Euge pocketbook perspective Dorion's best move is to package Ryan and Karlsson for futures, ELCs, and/or guys signed to smaller contracts. It sucks to be a fan under this ownership but if he is hell-bent on owning this team and the NHL doesn't force a sale then there is nothing we can do but be upset and hope the Sens can rebuild with the pieces we get back. I see two scenarios playing out.

    1: Keep Karlsson and Ryan but lose Hoffman, Smith, and Ceci without taking (significant) salary back. They will not add any UFAs of substance and will try to grow internally through the system. I do not envision any buyouts (though it makes financial sense to do so). A partner coming in for Karlsson via Hoffman trade whether it's with Calgary, EDM, or Philly. I have been proposing (Hoffman + Ceci + Harpur for Klefbom + 10th overall or some variation of this). I think Smith can be traded for Connor Murphy straight up). The D is better but still not great.

    Dzingel-Duchene-Stone
    #4 pick-Pageau-Ryan
    MPS-White-Gaborik
    Formenton-Pyatt-Burrows
    Extra: McCormick

    Klefbom-Karlsson
    Chabot-Murphy
    Wolanin-Boro

    Draft D-man (likely Ty Smith unless someone else falls) with 10th overall

    2: Trade Karlsson, Ryan, Hoffman, Smith. You risk losing Duchene and Stone but the pillars of the team would be Chabot and the rest of the prospect pools. I can't even begin to speculate what comes back the other way.    

    That is a humurously precise and detailed post in my opinion. I still can’t see us throwing in the towel this season until we’ve “safely” made Colorado’s pick out of Hughes max probability. As much as I want very few moves, I think they will trade Hoffman to St. Louis or Edmonton. Actually, I can see us making two trades with both Edmonton and St. Louis.

    I also find it funny that you were specific with our #4 pick this year playing LW for us. Zadina or Tkachuk much?

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:26 am

    Or Wahlstrom though he's committed to playing at Harvard this season. But yes, Tkachuk or Zadina the likely option. I'd expect Zadina to almost replace Hoffman's 25 goals by himself - the difference by committee. I'd expect Tkachuk to score 15 but be a physical player and add grit to the top-six. I also think Chlapik will factor into the lineup at some point. This is a make or break year for White so he'll need to step up in some capacity or another or he'll risk getting buried behind Brown and Batherson.

    Formenton is in as a placeholder. I think he'll start in the AHL but will eventually outplay somebody in the bottom 6.

    I actually think the defence I proposed is pretty good. Not great but pretty good. I don't expect Wideman or Claesson to be re-signed, and think Harpur is vastly overrated but I'd be okay carrying him as the 7th d-man. Connor Murphy is essentially Ceci but he's signed to a more cap friendly contract than what we'll give Ceci - especially if it means moving on from Smith.

    I also see a situation where White shifts to RW and Chlapik centers L3. I just think that line would be a huge liability defensively. If Gaborik gets bought out I see White moving to the wing though I think he can handle center duties while Chlapik either plays RW or movies to 4C with Pyatt moving up.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by tim1_2 on Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:40 am

    Pretty tough to be a fan of the team right now. I'll have to wait and see what happens with Karlsson, Duchene, Stone, etc. To have the feeling that hockey ops and the payroll are being underfunded because of ownership.... well it pretty much makes you feel like your team is going to be unable to compete for a Cup unless things change.

    We can fret about the return for Karlsson or who we draft at #4, but the bottom line (for me) right now is that Uncle Euge has turned this into an impossible situation.
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    Post by PTFlea on Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:50 am

    It's a very tough time to be a fan because we're about to lose a player that cannot be replaced. And all because of ownership (I assume).

    And then these ridiculous rumours of Hoffman being traded. If he is, it had better be for an established, young, under control top 2 D-man, because otherwise what the heck are we thinking? That we have so much silky smooth skill up front that we can afford to cut lose the only guy other than Duchene that has a lethal scoring touch?

    Oh, but Boucher doesn't like him! He doesn't backcheck hard enough! Go away Boucher, your style bored the Diddle out of everyone and the results were pathetic. One would say you got lucky to have led this team to the playoffs in the first place, let alone as far into the playoffs as we did. Be gone!
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    Post by Lagoon on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:11 am

    PTFlea wrote:It's a very tough time to be a fan because we're about to lose a player that cannot be replaced.  And all because of ownership (I assume).  

    And then these ridiculous rumours of Hoffman being traded.  If he is, it had better be for an established, young, under control top 2 D-man, because otherwise what the heck are we thinking?  That we have so much silky smooth skill up front that we can afford to cut lose the only guy other than Duchene that has a lethal scoring touch?

    Oh, but Boucher doesn't like him!  He doesn't backcheck hard enough!  Go away Boucher, your style bored the Diddle out of everyone and the results were pathetic.  One would say you got lucky to have led this team to the playoffs in the first place, let alone as far into the playoffs as we did.  Be gone!

    Well done. Nice venting session.
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    Post by PTFlea on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:23 am

    Lagoon wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:It's a very tough time to be a fan because we're about to lose a player that cannot be replaced.  And all because of ownership (I assume).  

    And then these ridiculous rumours of Hoffman being traded.  If he is, it had better be for an established, young, under control top 2 D-man, because otherwise what the heck are we thinking?  That we have so much silky smooth skill up front that we can afford to cut lose the only guy other than Duchene that has a lethal scoring touch?

    Oh, but Boucher doesn't like him!  He doesn't backcheck hard enough!  Go away Boucher, your style bored the Diddle out of everyone and the results were pathetic.  One would say you got lucky to have led this team to the playoffs in the first place, let alone as far into the playoffs as we did.  Be gone!

    Well done. Nice venting session.

    Serious question though. Will people on here be pleased if we trade Hoffman for something akin to the 10th overall?
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    Post by Lagoon on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:45 am

    Really depends on what the “something akin” is. I will always maintain until proven wrong that as long as Colorado has our 2019 1st, the Sens will want to be competitive. If they acquire it back from a Colorado, which is something I can see them trying, you might as well light the fuse and run.

    Hoffman is worth much more than the 10th overall, especially to the team that has it. That’s the good thing.
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    Post by PTFlea on Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:14 pm

    Lagoon wrote:Really depends on what the “something akin” is. I will always maintain until proven wrong that as long as Colorado has our 2019 1st, the Sens will want to be competitive. If they acquire it back from a Colorado, which is something I can see them trying, you might as well light the fuse and run.

    Hoffman is worth much more than the 10th overall, especially to the team that has it. That’s the good thing.

    They'll never get that pick back from Colorado - and they should be ashamed of themselves for even entertaining the notion of burning it down. Cussing Melnyk...we need to sign Karlsson, sign Duchene, sign Stone and acquire a steady D-man - maybe 2, one for the top 2 and one for the 2nd pairing.

    If you need to trade Hoffman for that, then so be it, as long as the D-man is worth it.

    I both look forward and dread the off-season.

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    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:30 pm

    I'm okay with trading Hoffman if we get a top two dman or forward with top six potential back. He's a one dimensional player whose one dimension can probably be replace by a player at less than half his cost

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    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:30 pm

    And that's not including his next contract which will be $7M+ and he's totally not worth that
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    Post by tim1_2 on Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:36 pm

    In a vacuum, trading Hoffman for the 10th overall isn't a terrible deal. In a vacuum, trading Karlsson because you think he's peaked and there are injury concerns and his contract has to be 8 years, isn't a terrible idea. It's hard to justify these things, though, when you think about how we were in the Conference Final a year ago. Why would the team need to be rebooted? I know we had a Dung year (in no small part due to all the distractions Karlsson was facing), but why rip things apart? Tampa didn't do this when they missed the playoffs a couple years ago....

    In my opinion, if they wanted to shake things up a bit while maintaining a very competitive team, you ditch Smith, Burrows, and Harpur opening spots for a couple young guns, retain Karlsson and Hoff, trade Ceci, and sign or trade for a legit top-4 defenceman. That is obviously in an ideal world, and far from what we're apparently about to do.
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    Post by PTFlea on Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:52 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:I'm okay with trading Hoffman if we get a top two dman or forward with top six potential back. He's a one dimensional player whose one dimension can probably be replace by a player at less than half his cost

    That's the paradox though, guys who have the skillset Hoffman have start at 5 million dollars. You don't snipe 29, 26, 27 and 22 goals and not get 5+ million. I'd go through 20+ goal scorers and their salaries in the NHL, but it's time consuming, but I guarantee most of them are at 5 million or will be on their next contract.

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