2018 NHL Entry Draft

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    wprager
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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by wprager on Thu May 17, 2018 2:52 pm

    Lagoon wrote:I hope not. I think he’ll be a Hab.

    Bu the Habs are in the East ... wait ... oh, I see what you did there.

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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu May 17, 2018 2:54 pm

    Lagoon wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Lagoon wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    Lagoon wrote:
    wprager wrote:
    Lagoon wrote:Guess what? Now at least I can see what you’re saying and you give good evidence to support your opinion. If I wasn’t so bullish on thinking that last year with the injuries to Karlsson, Wideman and Boro we really struggled with our identity, I might actually believe you in saying we have major issues with this team.
    Your forgetting having one of the worst team SV% in the league.

    There is one major issue on this team.  And we all know who that is.
    I forget lots of things, but that ain’t one of them. Are you forgetting Anderson is up and down throughout his whole career? Next year, lights out. I hope we don’t make major changes. Whatever player Dorion wants to trade just to say he did for Edmonton’s 10th. That’s it.

    Anderson is 37. He only played half of the season two years ago as he was tending to his wife. I don't expect him to bounce back this year - he'll improve but there's no turning back the clock. Rinne at 35 took a huge step back this year. Goalies used to be able to get away with playing into their mid to late 30s but I feel as though the league has become too fast to keep up. The gap is too big now.  
    Excuse me, but Rinne had a Vezina caliber season. Anderson isn’t a goalie that relies on speed. He’s a positional goalie. He can handle the game still. When he gets out of position and over commits ie. wraparounds and unintentional deflections, that’s when you see him struggle. My money is on Anderson being Anderson and rebounding. He’s positional.

    Good point, but he's 35 with Saros as a succession plan starting next year. I don't think it was an anomaly that Anderson/Condon were two of the worst goalies in the league. They had the worst defense in the league in front of them.  
    It was the perfect storm last season. A long playoff run shattered by a game 7 OT goal, Boro and Wideman injuries, Karlsson not 100%, Anderson having his down year, forwards not taking the next step and questionable player management. I don’t see how anyone can’t see that.

    Some other factors:

    - Anderson and Condon were both worse this past season which makes the point about an Anderson drop in production moot
    - We were bolstered emotionally by MacArthur's return which also got Ryan and Pageau going. This impacted the production of Ryan this past year and we lost a top-six forward that was not replaced who scored some pretty key goals in the playoff run
    - Duchene took a while to get going. His lack of production at the beginning was far worse than what Turris would have produced
    - Methot was not replaced. Carousel of partners for Karlsson including inconsistent play from Harpur and Claesson
    - The Sens had real depth for the playoff run. The Dumont/Thompson depth was atrocious this year.

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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by wprager on Thu May 17, 2018 2:58 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:
    Lagoon wrote:I hope not. I think he’ll be a Hab.

    Well, then that means Zadina to Ottawa I would image, which is also awesome.  But, yeah, if ever there was a player Montreal needed, it sounds like it's Tkachuk.  Ottawa too actually.  Carolina too.

    Montreal definitely needs him the most out of the top four. I am not sure what Carolina's opinion is on taking Russians, but I just can't see Montreal passing up on Svech if he's available. Montreal also desperately needs a d-man - I'd argue they need one more than a winger. They could have a pretty busy off-season if the rumors of them pursuing Tavares are true. I think they'll want to appease their fan base immediately and with Tkachuk committed to college for another year they may pass up on him for someone who is NHL ready.

    I tried "discussing" with a Habs fan on twitter, how they need puck-moving D, but he said they are "loaded" on the right side (where the top available D-men are). They have Weber, Petry, Juulsen and Benn. How is that loaded?

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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu May 17, 2018 3:02 pm

    Lagoon wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:
    Lagoon wrote:I hope not. I think he’ll be a Hab.

    Well, then that means Zadina to Ottawa I would image, which is also awesome.  But, yeah, if ever there was a player Montreal needed, it sounds like it's Tkachuk.  Ottawa too actually.  Carolina too.

    Montreal definitely needs him the most out of the top four. I am not sure what Carolina's opinion is on taking Russians, but I just can't see Montreal passing up on Svech if he's available. Montreal also desperately needs a d-man - I'd argue they need one more than a winger. They could have a pretty busy off-season if the rumors of them pursuing Tavares are true. I think they'll want to appease their fan base immediately and with Tkachuk committed to college for another year they may pass up on him for someone who is NHL ready.
    When I cherry pick apart your post, I’d love it if the comedy of errors happened and Svechnikov was available for us at 4

    That would be amazing, wouldn't it? Montreal may very well decide to pass on Zadina. They need two things in Montreal:

    1) #1 center (Tavares?)
    2) a defensive prospect to replace Subban, Markov and Sergachev (PP QB and #1 PMD via draft)

    Tkachuk doesn't address either of these needs but at least addresses size so I can see the argument as to why they would want him. They have Drouin who is a left hand shot. I could very well see them passing up on Zadina, but it could be for Hughes or Boqvist not just Tkachuk. Mete is a LHD so they may want to bring in a RHD via draft to pair with him (Boqvist?). Could be a good duo in Mtl for a lot of years to come.
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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by PTFlea on Thu May 17, 2018 3:20 pm

    Ottawa could really use some snarl up front. And there's been a few glowing write ups on Tkachuk recently. We'll see...

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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu May 17, 2018 3:27 pm

    wprager wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:
    Lagoon wrote:I hope not. I think he’ll be a Hab.

    Well, then that means Zadina to Ottawa I would image, which is also awesome.  But, yeah, if ever there was a player Montreal needed, it sounds like it's Tkachuk.  Ottawa too actually.  Carolina too.

    Montreal definitely needs him the most out of the top four. I am not sure what Carolina's opinion is on taking Russians, but I just can't see Montreal passing up on Svech if he's available. Montreal also desperately needs a d-man - I'd argue they need one more than a winger. They could have a pretty busy off-season if the rumors of them pursuing Tavares are true. I think they'll want to appease their fan base immediately and with Tkachuk committed to college for another year they may pass up on him for someone who is NHL ready.

    I tried "discussing" with a Habs fan on twitter, how they need puck-moving D, but he said they are "loaded"  on the right side (where the top available D-men are).  They have Weber, Petry, Juulsen and Benn.  How is that loaded?

    Ya that's not loaded at all haha

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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu May 17, 2018 3:28 pm

    PTFlea wrote:Ottawa could really use some snarl up front.  And there's been a few glowing write ups on Tkachuk recently.  We'll see...

    I think they can address that snarl with Noel later in the draft. Not sure a crash and banger as your best asset is a good fit for a top five pick.

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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu May 17, 2018 3:48 pm

    My guess on Ottawa's first rd picks:

    4th: Zadina or Boqvist, 22nd: Sandin or Merkley (if available) or Noel

    If they do get their hands on the 10th and Zadina is gone

    4th: Wahlstrom, 10th: Smith or Dobson, 22nd: Kraut if available (or Sandin, Merkley or Noel)

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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Thu May 17, 2018 3:55 pm

    Interesting tidbit of news:

    New Carolina GM, Don Waddell, has worked in many different roles for USA Hockey throughout his career. Could be very high on Tkachuk

    On the flip-side, as GM of the Thrashers:

    (Source: https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/jets/the-draft-that-went-cold-159286985.html)

    "It was the second deal before the deadline that has left a permanent scar on the franchise. Pushing all his chips to the middle of the table, Waddell sent Glen Metropolit, along with first- and third-round picks in 2007, a second-round pick in 2008 and a conditional first-round pick in 2008 should Keith Tkachuk re-sign in Atlanta (he didn't, and the selection reverted to the Thrashers) to the St. Louis Blues for Tkachuk, an almost 35-year-old with an iffy playoff history.

    The Thrashers were swept in four straight by the New York Rangers. Tkachuk had a goal and two assists in the four games."
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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by Lagoon on Thu May 17, 2018 4:13 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Interesting tidbit of news:

    New Carolina GM, Don Waddell, has worked in many different roles for USA Hockey throughout his career. Could be very high on Tkachuk

    On the flip-side, as GM of the Thrashers:

    (Source: https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/jets/the-draft-that-went-cold-159286985.html)

    "It was the second deal before the deadline that has left a permanent scar on the franchise. Pushing all his chips to the middle of the table, Waddell sent Glen Metropolit, along with first- and third-round picks in 2007, a second-round pick in 2008 and a conditional first-round pick in 2008 should Keith Tkachuk re-sign in Atlanta (he didn't, and the selection reverted to the Thrashers) to the St. Louis Blues for Tkachuk, an almost 35-year-old with an iffy playoff history.

    The Thrashers were swept in four straight by the New York Rangers. Tkachuk had a goal and two assists in the four games."
    Yes. I also think, when the balls dropped, I came on here rather quickly and said I wouldn’t be surprised to see Carolina (or Montreal) draft Tkachuk because of their new owners seeming dictatorship and desires to get bigger and meaner. 

    I’m having second thoughts just because Svechnikov is too good and has a perfect center in Necas.
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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by Lagoon on Thu May 17, 2018 4:15 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:My guess on Ottawa's first rd picks:

    4th: Zadina or Boqvist, 22nd: Sandin or Merkley (if available) or Noel

    If they do get their hands on the 10th and Zadina is gone

    4th: Wahlstrom, 10th: Smith or Dobson, 22nd: Kraut if available (or Sandin, Merkley or Noel)
    I can see Merkley dropping for sure but not all the way to 22. If the Sens take a D at 4 and it’s not Dahlin or Hughes, I would be very surprised.
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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by 22_4_ever on Thu May 17, 2018 4:31 pm

    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:Ottawa could really use some snarl up front.  And there's been a few glowing write ups on Tkachuk recently.  We'll see...

    I think they can address that snarl with Noel later in the draft. Not sure a crash and banger as your best asset is a good fit for a top five pick.

    We've disagreed before, but he's more than a crash and banger. I don't know how much you watched him play this year, but he was at least as good as Shane Bowers which everyone lamented as being part of the trade for Duchene. He's more of a set up guy than Bowers, but he also is a big body that loves to get dirty. He's a very underrated 200ft player that can defend as well as anyone on Ottawa now, and has offensive upside to set up a scorer.

    I watched about 20 of the BU games this year and as a freshman he was as dominant as anyone on their team.


    I'm just saying if Zadina and Svech go before him and they pass on him for a defenseman they will regret it in 5 years. I don't see Bouchard, Hughes, Dobson and especially Boqvist being anything significant for at least 5-6 years. If Ottawa takes one of them, then Karlsson is gone, and they are going to tear this thing apart.



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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by Lagoon on Thu May 17, 2018 5:31 pm

    If you are saying Tkachuk is “at least as good” as Shane Bowers, you are either hyping Bowers big time or under selling Tkachuk. Which is it? The two players are basically the same age and you don’t often hear them being considered equal. That’s a big knock on Tkachuk you just threw in my opinion while you defend him.

    I think Bowers goes on to have a solid NHL career and he reminds me a lot of one Mark Stone. Yes, I scratched my head when I saw that he was the prospect added to the Duchene deal. Nicely done by Sakic.
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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by PTFlea on Thu May 17, 2018 11:03 pm

    Lagoon wrote:If you are saying Tkachuk is “at least as good” as Shane Bowers, you are either hyping Bowers big time or under selling Tkachuk. Which is it? The two players are basically the same age and you don’t often hear them being considered equal. That’s a big knock on Tkachuk you just threw in my opinion while you defend him.

    I think Bowers goes on to have a solid NHL career and he reminds me a lot of one Mark Stone. Yes, I scratched my head when I saw that he was the prospect added to the Duchene deal. Nicely done by Sakic.

    It sounds like Tkachuk's upside is stratospherically higher than Bowers, but they're similar forecheck heavy power forwards.

    I personally have to defer to people who know prospects and players coming up, but again, there are a couple of quotes from scouts and a couple of hockey writers that are very complimentary of him as a package. The argument appears to be his offensive upside which people are clearly divided on. If he tops out as a 15 goal guy, you've made a mistake, but if he can be more of a 25 goal, power forward, heavy forechecker, 2-way, ~60 point guy in the East, you'd have to think good things.

    I'd personally rather a big, silky smooth goal scorer who has the size to drive to net, but that's what everyone wants.
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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by PTFlea on Thu May 17, 2018 11:14 pm

    Lagoon wrote:If you are saying Tkachuk is “at least as good” as Shane Bowers, you are either hyping Bowers big time or under selling Tkachuk. Which is it? The two players are basically the same age and you don’t often hear them being considered equal. That’s a big knock on Tkachuk you just threw in my opinion while you defend him.

    I think Bowers goes on to have a solid NHL career and he reminds me a lot of one Mark Stone. Yes, I scratched my head when I saw that he was the prospect added to the Duchene deal. Nicely done by Sakic.

    I don't mind the package they got, but I continue to not understand trading Duchene now that I've had a really long look at him. I'm probably like most fans in that I only saw him play maybe 10 times the year before the trade, but I've always really liked him, but seeing him play long stretches and the effort he gives, the strength along the boards, the apparent leadership he shows according to articles, the drive, the f-ing hands he has, the shiftiness - he's got it all. I'm not naive to Colorado sucking so long something had to be done, but you expect Landeskog and Duchene to form two pillars of skill, grit and leadership and lead you out of it - or look in different areas to fix your team.

    Although you look now and they're having success...especially with Rantanen exploding, so you really never know.

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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Fri May 18, 2018 8:53 am

    22_4_ever wrote:
    DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:
    PTFlea wrote:Ottawa could really use some snarl up front.  And there's been a few glowing write ups on Tkachuk recently.  We'll see...

    I think they can address that snarl with Noel later in the draft. Not sure a crash and banger as your best asset is a good fit for a top five pick.

    We've disagreed before, but he's more than a crash and banger.  I don't know how much you watched him play this year, but he was at least as good as Shane Bowers which everyone lamented as being part of the trade for Duchene.  He's more of a set up guy than Bowers, but he also is a big body that loves to get dirty.  He's a very underrated 200ft player that can defend as well as anyone on Ottawa now, and has offensive upside to set up a scorer.

    I watched about 20 of the BU games this year and as a freshman he was as dominant as anyone on their team.


    I'm just saying if Zadina and Svech go before him and they pass on him for a defenseman they will regret it in 5 years.  I don't see Bouchard, Hughes, Dobson and especially Boqvist being anything significant for at least 5-6 years.  If Ottawa takes one of them, then Karlsson is gone, and they are going to tear this thing apart.




    Admittedly I have not watched Tkachuk outside of the world juniors. I'm basing my opinion on what I have read and his low point productions (and high PIMs) in college

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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Fri May 18, 2018 8:58 am

    PTFlea wrote:
    Lagoon wrote:If you are saying Tkachuk is “at least as good” as Shane Bowers, you are either hyping Bowers big time or under selling Tkachuk. Which is it? The two players are basically the same age and you don’t often hear them being considered equal. That’s a big knock on Tkachuk you just threw in my opinion while you defend him.

    I think Bowers goes on to have a solid NHL career and he reminds me a lot of one Mark Stone. Yes, I scratched my head when I saw that he was the prospect added to the Duchene deal. Nicely done by Sakic.

    I don't mind the package they got, but I continue to not understand trading Duchene now that I've had a really long look at him.  I'm probably like most fans in that I only saw him play maybe 10 times the year before the trade, but I've always really liked him, but seeing him play long stretches and the effort he gives, the strength along the boards, the apparent leadership he shows according to articles, the drive, the f-ing hands he has, the shiftiness - he's got it all.  I'm not naive to Colorado sucking so long something had to be done, but you expect Landeskog and Duchene to form two pillars of skill, grit and leadership and lead you out of it - or look in different areas to fix your team.

    Although you look now and they're having success...especially with Rantanen exploding, so you really never know.

    Maybe they thought he wasn't going to re-sign there and they traded him while his value was high. They got a huge haul for him while shedding a ton of salary. Sakic did extremely well.

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    Re: 2018 NHL Entry Draft

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Fri May 18, 2018 9:03 am

    This is such a wide open draft this year it seems:

    https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-mock-draft-rasmus-dahlin-number-1/c-298337670

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