Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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    Oglethorpe
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:48 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:I dunno if today is the day, but you gotta think that the next time we hear about it, it'll be because it's actually happening.
    We haven’t heard anything since “interest shifted back to the stars” which was probably Dorion playing games and everyone just holding out.

    I’ll tell you the most likely scenario: Tampa has figured that they could probably land karlsson for free next offseason so they’ve cooled off. The only was dorion makes it happen is if he finds another GM to come up with a half decent trade proposal and then goes to Yzerman telling him he’ll pull the trigger. Then maybe Yzerman pays up. 

    Otherwise it seems Dorion may have dummies himself out of a good return.
    So TSN is saying the Bonus money in Ottawa’s contract offer is an issue. So it’s not AAV or total dollars necessarily. This is on Karlsson not Melnyk or Dorion.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Lagoon on Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:00 pm

    It is funny what people read and then choose to believe. I guess that is bound to happen with a platform and pandering.

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:49 am

    Oglethorpe wrote:
    Flo The Action wrote:
    tim1_2 wrote:I dunno if today is the day, but you gotta think that the next time we hear about it, it'll be because it's actually happening.
    We haven’t heard anything since “interest shifted back to the stars” which was probably Dorion playing games and everyone just holding out.

    I’ll tell you the most likely scenario: Tampa has figured that they could probably land karlsson for free next offseason so they’ve cooled off. The only was dorion makes it happen is if he finds another GM to come up with a half decent trade proposal and then goes to Yzerman telling him he’ll pull the trigger. Then maybe Yzerman pays up. 

    Otherwise it seems Dorion may have dummies himself out of a good return.
    So TSN is saying the Bonus money in Ottawa’s contract offer is an issue.  So it’s not AAV or total dollars necessarily.  This is on Karlsson not Melnyk or Dorion.

    Could you provide a link for this info? I just want to hear context and who it came from. Seems unlikely that this is the only thing being problematic.

    And if kalrsson refuses on a technicality it’s likely for a bigger reason like he doesn’t like the ownership/direction of the team or other internal problems.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:10 am

    Please explain. Did they day the issue is in Ottawa's offer to Karlsson or sooner other contract? Are you saying that the structure of bonuses in the offer they made is the stumbling block?


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Oglethorpe on Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:19 am

    It was an audio clip, but said a lack of signing bonuses was a major problem. To be clear there are other issues between the sides.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:26 am

    Signing bonuses as in lockout protection? That's not something a cash strapped owner with attendance issues can afford. Honestly, could not blame him. I also don't think it would be right for players to demand more (whether it's increasing the 50% which I already think it's too high, out widening the net on what counts as HRR), while making sure that they get paid up front. And, of course, it's just the elite prima donnas that will be getting these bonuses while the other 90% will be the ones losing their jobs to younger and younger players.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:28 pm

    wprager wrote:Signing bonuses as in lockout protection? That's not something a cash strapped owner with attendance issues can afford. Honestly, could not blame him. I also don't think it would be right for players to demand more (whether it's increasing the 50% which I already think it's too high, out widening the net on what counts as HRR), while making sure that they get paid up front.  And, of course, it's just the elite prima donnas that will be getting these bonuses while the other 90% will be the ones losing their jobs to younger and younger players.

    No it was signing bonus as in bonuses that seperate from the salary. Tavares got a 15mill one for just putting pen to paper. The advantages with front loaded bonuses is that the player can reinvest that money today and benefit from reinvestment interests. It can amount to quite a bit of money in comparison to just normal salaries coming in every year.
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hockeyhero22000 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:17 pm

    now take this with some huge grains of salt thisis from eklund but...
    "With the Tampa trade looking more and more tenuous there has been a very unexpected groundswell of sources saying that the Senators are trying to bridge some (HUGE) gaps and they are making consolatory gestures in an attempt to perhaps persuade Karlsson to re-consider staying...

    What would the Sens have to offer to make this at all serious?

    How far this gets is anyone's guess...

    What do you all think the chances are that Karlsson is open to any of this?"
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:26 pm

    Hockeyhero22000 wrote:now take this with some huge grains of salt thisis from eklund but...
    "With the Tampa trade looking more and more tenuous there has been a very unexpected groundswell of sources saying that the Senators are trying to bridge some (HUGE) gaps and they are making consolatory gestures in an attempt to perhaps persuade Karlsson to re-consider staying...

    What would the Sens have to offer to make this at all serious?

    How far this gets is anyone's guess...

    What do you all think the chances are that Karlsson is open to any of this?"
    Like you said. Eklund. I don’t think he has any sources whatsoever
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Hockeyhero22000 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:32 pm

    Flo The Action wrote:
    Hockeyhero22000 wrote:now take this with some huge grains of salt thisis from eklund but...
    "With the Tampa trade looking more and more tenuous there has been a very unexpected groundswell of sources saying that the Senators are trying to bridge some (HUGE) gaps and they are making consolatory gestures in an attempt to perhaps persuade Karlsson to re-consider staying...

    What would the Sens have to offer to make this at all serious?

    How far this gets is anyone's guess...

    What do you all think the chances are that Karlsson is open to any of this?"
    Like you said. Eklund. I don’t think he has any sources whatsoever

    Thats true and even if he signed back with Ottawa all summer i will be waiting for the other shoe to drop and a trade anyway
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:32 pm

    A "signing bonus" is not something you get only when you sign. Signing bonuses usually have specific schedule outlining when each portion is due. A lot of the recent contracts for star players include significant signing bonuses paid out before the current CBA runs out - a so-called "lockout protection".

    They should really do away with signing bonuses and front loading. Annual salary should be total decided by term, period, with a maximum of 20% paid July 1 each year as a signing bonus.

    Simplifying contracts will help get rid of the agents (player will save a ton on agent fees).


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:42 pm

    Wow, just read that Ray Emery drugged early this morning. Swimming with friends.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:41 pm

    wprager wrote:A "signing bonus" is not something you get only when you sign. Signing bonuses usually have specific schedule outlining when each portion is due. A lot of the recent contracts for star players include significant signing bonuses paid out before the current CBA runs out - a so-called "lockout protection".

    They should really do away with signing bonuses and front loading.  Annual salary should be total decided by term, period, with a maximum of 20% paid July 1 each year as a signing bonus.

    Simplifying contracts will help get rid of the agents (player will save a ton on agent fees).
    I never said it was solely when you sign. It’s separate from actual salary to provide all sorts of advantages like the possibility to invest that lump some but also protection from trade and it plays in to max you can pay a player being a significant pourcentage of team salary IRcC
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:05 pm

    I forget who the player is but it's a recent contract where the AAV is around $7M but only $1M each year is salary.

    EDIT: just looked it up, ROR will make $7.5M per year on average, with $1M in salary and the rest as signing bonus. This coming season the signing bonus is $10M. It's $25.5M in bonuses over the first 3 years of the deal.

    They need to fix that.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by wprager on Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:41 am

    Nick Paul gets another chance. 1 year 2-way.


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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by PTFlea on Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:41 pm

    I can see both sides at this point. Maybe Karlsson has decided the grass is not always greener, maybe Alf has chatted with him, maybe he and duchene have chatted, maybe he's got some assurances that melnyk will be gone and maybe tampa said that hedman took a cut, if you want to play here, we can only offer 8 mil
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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by Flo The Action on Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:43 pm

    PTFlea wrote:I can see both sides at this point.  Maybe Karlsson has decided the grass is not always greener, maybe Alf has chatted with him, maybe he and duchene have chatted, maybe he's got some assurances that melnyk will be gone and maybe tampa said that hedman took a cut, if you want to play here, we can only offer 8 mil

    Have you heard anything suggesting he might stay?

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    Re: Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

    Post by DefenceWinsChampionships on Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:25 pm

    I have not. My guess is talks have stalled all around for Dorion. If this gets into August we're in trouble on a Karlsson return. Nothing happens in August

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