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DefenceWinsChampionships


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If Stone goes to arbitration, what are the chances he's traded and not re-signed? In my eyes he's worth a 6 x $7.5M contract. I don't think that's unreasonable? Duchene 8 x $8M

Not sure why these guys haven't been extended yet. Or we're about to see things go from bad to worse when neither of them are retained.

tim1_2


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DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:If Stone goes to arbitration, what are the chances he's traded and not re-signed? In my eyes he's worth a 6 x $7.5M contract. I don't think that's unreasonable? †Duchene 8 x $8M

Not sure why these guys haven't been extended yet. Or we're about to see things go from bad to worse when neither of them are retained.

Well I think the Karlsson situation might be holding things up a bit.

Also, itís en vogue currently for players to take as much $$$ as they can get in the next two years of their contracts as that money will be payable before the next lockout. †Signing bonuses are also very popular with players. †Neither of these two things are going to be easy to negotiate with the Sens, as Mr. Melnyk likely isnít very amenable to either right now.

And then thereís the question as to whether or not either player actually wants to sign a long term deal in Ottawa right now. †Stone can get a decent chunk of change through arbitration and then be a UFA after next season. †Duchene can play out the final year of his contract and then pick his spot. †

If Ottawa makes legit, reasonable offers to each and are met with nothing but outrageous demands, then they have no choice but to trade these guys.

I wouldnít panic about either situation yet, but there are plenty of reasons to be concerned.

Lagoon


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DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:If Stone goes to arbitration, what are the chances he's traded and not re-signed? In my eyes he's worth a 6 x $7.5M contract. I don't think that's unreasonable? †Duchene 8 x $8M

Not sure why these guys haven't been extended yet. Or we're about to see things go from bad to worse when neither of them are retained.

I believe both Stone and Duchene have actually been quoted as saying they are waiting to see certain steps from the organization before they re-sign. Maybe it was just Stone though.

There are also posters on here that have sworn that current players will re-sign regardless of ďthe Karlsson situationĒ. Iím not sure why they think they know that.

There are very few that would choose Ottawa in its current state, unless of course you are fighting just to stay in the league or coming off a terrible year, ie Carey, MPS, Paul, Sieloff, Wideman...

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Iíve been saying for quite some time now that we should be worried about the contracts of stone and duchene, nothing tells me that they should stay here.

wprager

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Duchene I can see. He wanted to win and it doesn't look very good here. He wasn't drafted by this organization, hasn't played with any of these guys before (has he?), isn't really from around here. On the other hand, is here going to risk his reputation by asking out *again*?

Stone has grown roots, here. He's recognized as a leader on this team. There's definitely lots of reasons for him to want to stay.


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wprager

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Are there reasons to leave? Of course there are. I just don't think it's fair - or factual - to say that there aren't reasons to stay.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

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wprager wrote:Duchene I can see. He wanted to win and it doesn't look very good here. He wasn't drafted by this organization, hasn't played with any of these guys before (has he?), isn't really from around here. On the other hand, is here going to risk his reputation by asking out *again*?

Stone has grown roots, here. He's recognized as a leader on this team. There's definitely lots of reasons for him to want to stay.

Nothing against playing out your contract. Duchene doesnít have to ask for a trade. Can say heíll play the year and reevaluate at the end of the year only to walk away. It be in his right. The sens would be stupid to let that scenario play out.

I wouldnít fault stone for doing the same. Why give the team loyalty when itís so mismanaged? Roots shmoots, you can uproot yourself and wherever heís going heíll get 7 years and a NTC so heíll have plenty of time make new ones. Iím sure Turris has had the time this summer to tell everyone how nice it is outside of Ottawa.

I just hope that if they canít resign stone they call Colorado and try to work out a trade where our first is part of the deal coming back. (Of course Sakic would be foolish to trade that pick away, that duchene deal has the potential to be one of the best deal for Colorado since the Lindros deal if we wind up winning the lottery. Funny enough itís the same franchise that won the lindros trade also.

DefenceWinsChampionships


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I don't think Ottawa will be a bottom 5 team making the odds of winning the lottery low.

Lagoon

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Groveling back to Sakic to get the pick back from Colorado would make the Turris deal the most lopsided trade in history in my opinion. It would also most likely spell the end for Dorion after Melnyk sells. Think about that trade and then add Stone to it.

The Sens wonít be bad this year because we still have Karlsson. In my opinion, once we kept the 2018 pick, Karlsson was staying. Iíve said that ad nauseam. That 2019 pick can not and better not be a lottery pick. Karlsson is needed and I think in that time when Karlsson keeps us in the playoff hunt around the deadline, then the Sens should consider trading him if he wonít re-sign for Melnyk.

tim1_2

tim1_2
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Lagoon wrote:Groveling back to Sakic to get the pick back from Colorado would make the Turris deal the most lopsided trade in history in my opinion. It would also most likely spell the end for Dorion after Melnyk sells. Think about that trade and then add Stone to it.

The Sens wonít be bad this year because we still have Karlsson. In my opinion, once we kept the 2018 pick, Karlsson was staying. Iíve said that ad nauseam. That 2019 pick can not and better not be a lottery pick. Karlsson is needed and I think in that time when Karlsson keeps us in the playoff hunt around the deadline, then the Sens should consider trading him if he wonít re-sign for Melnyk.

Karlsson was here for 17/18 and our pick was a lottery pick.

It is hard to judge what to expect out of our players next season given that a large part of the problem last season was apparently the locker room issues. Have we solved the locker room issues? That remains to be seen I suppose.

It's hard to look at our projected roster right now and think that we'll be a playoff team next year. Our success will likely be dictated by the steps forward the certain young guys take or don't take...plus nobody's sure what to expect from our goaltending tandem.

Lagoon

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Ev wrote:
Lagoon wrote:I still laugh at people when they try and say Karlsson canít be, wonít be, or isnít the same player he was prior to even his Achilles injury. His former biggest supporters on this site now saying heís terrible defensively and lost a step offensively. Funny stuff. I canít wait until he legitimately wins the Norris again and continually leads defencemen in scoring.

He was terrible defensively last year and definitely wasn't the same player he was before. Whether or not it continues remains to be seen. For a guy who has always been average defensively (which was good enough for me) any injury is going to bring down his defensive game. I don't know why you think it's funny, it's a legitimate concern, a serious injury can derail the most gifted players for the rest of their career. Nobody hopes he doesn't return to his former self. This is a multi million dollar business, you have to analyze your asset from all angles and project to the future, especially when debating whether or not to eat up most of your budget on one guy. Like if he played the same way he did last season forever, and playing 25+ mins per night, your team will never have success.

I don't think he's lost a step offensively other than skating, but it's most likely just due to age and historical probabilities that he will never have a more productive season than he had in prior years. Of course I think he will lead defensemen in scoring (but I think he would get less points on other teams). If he never reverts to his former self in his own zone, he will never win another Norris trophy.

So basically Karlsson is garbage now and canít be the same player he was because of two separate and acute injuries, but you want the Sens to offer Stone 8x8? Makes sense. Iím 7000% more concerned with Stoneís repetitive injuries than Karlssonís one offs.



Last edited by Lagoon on Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total

Lagoon

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22_4_ever wrote:
Lagoon wrote:I just love that after another day passes, more and more people realize the potential reality that Karlsson will indeed be a Senator this year.

So just so I'm clear you've been spouting that he'd be here because you don't think he'll be traded until the deadline or you think he's staying? †

I'm not saying he's signing him isn't going to happen, but it's become clear that the reason why Dallas isn't budging from their "inferior" offer for EK is that he has made it clear his intention is to not sign there. †Tampa is where he wants to be, and right now that's the only place that has a contract he is willing to sign. †It's less than what Doughty signed for, and from what I'm told is not more than Stamkos. †

So why doesn't he resign in Ottawa now? †He was rumored to be offered more than Stamkos here, and according to you, he wants to stay. †What's holding it up? †A new owner?

Not likely. †When Atlanta was sold to the group in Winnipeg I was told the agreement on the $$$ was made almost 7 months before the deal was finalized. †The legal work that has to be done in order to have a team sold and moved is huge. †Right now the talk is that "The Gene" had an offer he liked, but was instructed by the league to reject it, as they couldn't have a team sold for less than the 500+ million Seattle is willing to pay. †So even if "The Gene" agreed today on an amount for his team it's unlikely that the team would officially transfer ownership until after EK was a UFA next summer.

Please qualify your statement...are you saying you guarantee that EK will resign here, or just remain until the trade deadline? †

I'll say it, I don't think he'll be here in October unless no team is willing to trade for him and seeing as the only team who has an agreement in principle to resign him is Tampa (not even ottawa at almost 2 million more per year) then I'd say there is a good chance he stays till the deadline but right now I don't see how he stays..

Then again, you can show up at the BSP Thursday aft and ask him yourself...and while you're at it ask Turris the dirt on why he was shipped out. †Feel free to post it here after...

My opinion is well known. They arenít stated as fact to try and pretend I know more than anyone else. Youíve seen how the opposite can work out.

Iíve qualified my opinion many times. Go back and read just like Iím doing right now.

Lagoon

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tim1_2 wrote:
Lagoon wrote:Groveling back to Sakic to get the pick back from Colorado would make the Turris deal the most lopsided trade in history in my opinion. It would also most likely spell the end for Dorion after Melnyk sells. Think about that trade and then add Stone to it.

The Sens wonít be bad this year because we still have Karlsson. In my opinion, once we kept the 2018 pick, Karlsson was staying. Iíve said that ad nauseam. That 2019 pick can not and better not be a lottery pick. Karlsson is needed and I think in that time when Karlsson keeps us in the playoff hunt around the deadline, then the Sens should consider trading him if he wonít re-sign for Melnyk.

Karlsson was here for 17/18 and our pick was a lottery pick. †

It is hard to judge what to expect out of our players next season given that a large part of the problem last season was apparently the locker room issues. †Have we solved the locker room issues? †That remains to be seen I suppose.

It's hard to look at our projected roster right now and think that we'll be a playoff team next year. †Our success will likely be dictated by the steps forward the certain young guys take or don't take...plus nobody's sure what to expect from our goaltending tandem.

Karlsson was rehabbing for the first half of the year and dealing with personal issues through all of it. However, through all of that, towards the end of the year, there was still a scoreboard as to how close Karlsson was to taking over the points lead for defencemen. Also, yes, I believe in the kind of game our young players play and if they are used properly by Boucher. Anderson should have his patterned great year. I like our regulars, minus Ceci.

tim1_2

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Lagoon wrote:
So basically Karlsson is garbage now and canít be the same player he was because of two separate and acute injuries, but you want the Sens to offer Stone 8x8? Makes sense. Iím 7000% more concerned with Stoneís repetitive injuries than Karlssonís one offs.

I think there's plenty of reason to be concerned about Karlsson's foot and ankle issues. He said yesterday that he's found his "new normal", but then also said that he fully expects to continue to play at his highest level (of course he has to say this). The "new normal" thing is a bit of a concern...like, he acknowledges that the injuries have had an impact.

DefenceWinsChampionships


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All three could walk. All three could fetch us good returns at the deadline or before then. My concern is I don't think the Sens have a plan. Dorion has not done anything to convince me otherwise. Our captain *should* have been signed or traded by now and our other two best players remain without contracts next season with one going to arbitration next week.

I am at my breaking point with this team. And it's not the players' faults. Win or lose - I don't care. But the mismanagement and deployment of players + the ineptitude of ownership is making me no longer care about this team. I have lost interest which is not a good look for someone who has been a fan since the franchise started and a former/potential season ticket holder.

In my line of work if we screw up we get fired. We were promised changes and a younger team going into next season and so far I have seen nothing aside from downgrading our top-line LW, buying out our 13th forward, and signing a UFA who will probably start as 4C over a prospect.

DefenceWinsChampionships


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Our lineup going into next season:

Dzingel-Duchene-Stone
Boedker-Pageau-Ryan
MPS-Smith-Gaborik
McCormick-White-Pyatt

Chabot-Karlsson
Harpur-Ceci
Boro-Wideman

Anderson
Condon

This is a horrible team. Melnyk and Dorion should be ashamed of themselves.

tim1_2

tim1_2
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DefenceWinsChampionships wrote:Our lineup going into next season:

Dzingel-Duchene-Stone
Boedker-Pageau-Ryan
MPS-Smith-Gaborik
McCormick-White-Pyatt

Chabot-Karlsson
Harpur-Ceci
Boro-Wideman

Anderson
Condon

This is a horrible team. Melnyk and Dorion should be ashamed of themselves.

There was a quote from Boucher during the dev camp that there will likely be a ďyoung playerĒ on each line next season. I have no idea what qualifies a player as ďyoungĒ in this scenario, but if the one rookie we have in the lineup is White, as is the case in these lines, then Iím not really sure what to think.

In my opinion, looking at the forwards, we have two legit top 6 guys in Stone and Duchene, with Dzingel being on the fringe, although certainly deserving a spot in our top 6. And then we have two legit top 4 D in Chabot and Karlsson.

I think itís tough to just look at our roster today and make lines out of it. I have little doubt that weíll see a couple prospects start the year with the team (Formenton or Brown or Chlapik or whoever) and hopefully get some meaningful icetime.

Really, what point is there in trotting out a guy like Gaborik if itís at the expense of playing time for a younger player. But then it comes back to we have to pay Gaborik anyway, so we might as well use him to plug a holeÖ.

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I donít doubt Dorion has a plan. But the problem is his plan was win now up until a little while ago and now we have to live with that failed plan while the new plan gets put into motion. The new plan is obviously rebuild and theyíve taken steps in that direction but without our 1st next year and the team we will likely have we likely wonít have what would be extremely useful which is IMO a top 5 pick.
Sadly if we do rebuild we should be trading more players. But Dorion hasnít proven to us he can even orchestrate good trades. Iím scarred on the returns. If stone takes a one year, weíll be at the mercy of where heís willing to resign. Same for duchene. This is sloppy asset management. Thereís no way we should have been walking into a summer with so many important players with one year remaining on their contract.

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