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Ottawa Senators (present and past) TIDBITS & QUICK HITS!

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PTFlea


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You think that's all it would take? I doubt it personally, if that was the case, someone would have him already. Maybe even the inept senators could have swung that.

Starts with a 2nd and decent prospect I bet. Edmonton has no reason in the world to trade him for scraps.

Flo The Action


Franchise Player
Franchise Player
PTFlea wrote:You think that's all it would take?  I doubt it personally, if that was the case, someone would have him already.  Maybe even the inept senators could have swung that.

Starts with a 2nd and decent prospect I bet.  Edmonton has no reason in the world to trade him for scraps.

I'm not saying that's all it would take. I'm saying that's all I'd give.

I personally don't think he's anything special. he hasn't done much at the AHL or NHL level. hasn't adjusted well to the NA game.
how much would you pay for a 3rd liner? I admit that there might be some untapped upside still left but it's far from a certainty. personally, I'd pass on him unless we can get rid of someone like Boedker.

DefenceWinsChampionships


Veteran
Veteran
Filatov was traded for a 3rd. I see this as a very similar scenario though the market has changed for these types of transactions. Boedker (dump), Lajoie, and a 4th is what I would offer.

JP has size. At worst he can play 3rd/4th line and the Sens are weak at RW. Boedker has no future with the team, and Lajoie is buried behind 3 stud LHD with Tychonik on his heels.

Lagoon

Lagoon
Veteran
Veteran
Puljujarvi is probably the player I’m most confused about. There’s a reason Columbus GM Kekäläinen didn’t draft him 3rd overall and took PLD instead. With all his Finnish connections, he of all GM’s knows him best. That was probably the first red flag. His play is uninspiring since then. Sure, he had a very good first year with the opportunities he was given and his fancy stats back that up. In the last two seasons however, more red flags.

******************This recent article is pretty damning, ARTICLE STARTS
“If you missed Jesse Puljujarvi on Friday re-stating his demand to be traded, the Cult of Hockey’s David Staples recounts it here. While I have written and still think it’s possible Puljujarvi will be in camp this Fall, the bigger question has really become: How did we get to this point? There’s no question the organization has made its share of mistakes in developing the player. But the examples of stubbornness that Puljujarvi and his agent have displayed through these “negotiations”? Multiple observations and insider comments suggest to me that this same stubbornness showed up all-too frequently on the ice and in the dressing room as well. Examples:

-It has been described to me by multiple sources close to the team how Todd McLellan invested hours upon hours into trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton. One of Todd’s frustrations was Jesse’s inconsistency in getting to the net. There, the player’s size & skill combination could be a real factor. When Puljujarvi would do this and was successful Todd would not miss the opportunity to praise him. He would point out how positioning on the play was critical. But then the next shift Puljujarvi would stubbornly appear back on the perimeter again. Todd got frustrated.

-Part of McLellan’s struggle was that he was often in the position of being “the bad cop” on the staff. Perhaps a good complimentary step would be to assign a coach to Puljujarvi whose job would be to “catch Jesse doing things right”? So this past fall Manny Viveiros was brought in. One of his key assignments was to attach himself to the young Finn which he did. But Manny didn’t even make as much progress as McLellan had. And remember: Viveiros has a reputation of being able to connect with today’s player. Observers say it was if advice would go in one ear…and right out the other.

-New head coach Ken Hitchcock was so confident that he had the answer he reversed a decision to have Puljujarvi spend the rest of the season in Bakersfield. Much to the consternation and confusion of the Puljujarvi camp, the Oilers recalled him yet again. Hitchcock is the very personification of stubborn when it comes to insisting that players play for him a certain way, especially without the puck. But as it turned out Hitch (the 2nd winning-est coach in NHL history) didn’t have the keys to the car, either. The winger’s TOI over his last 10 games topped 10 minutes only 3 times. 3 other times it fell into the single digits. Yes, the bad hip also contributed to that.

-Meanwhile, through all of the above, his teammates struggled to connect with him on the ice. Often, especially on the power play. Puljujarvi would repeatedly head to the wrong spot. He would literally bump into them. And when they would try to explain it to him their words of advice seemed to fall flat. Was he not listening…not understanding…or not agreeing? Eventually, although none of these players would ever dream of saying it in public…I am made to understand that they quietly asked just not to play with him anymore. There’s no suggestion they disliked him as a guy. Just that he was just hard to play with.

Did Jesse perhaps just not understand? I think we’d all have time for that issue, right? Well…there has been a lot of ink spilled on Puljujarvi’s perceived language barrier. However, one particular person who was in that dressing room last season was asked about that very factor, and he answered:

“No, he knows way more that he lets on”.

That same person (who shall remain anonymous) was then asked, “So what’s the problem with Jesse, really”?

The answer, shrugged back, was once again: “He’s just stubborn”.

Huh. You don’t say…

So…if you’re a prospect for whom things have just not gone your way (and again, not all his doing by any means) at some point…don’t you figure out that “stubborn” isn’t a trait that is going to do you any favors?”
******************* ARTICLE OVER
I wouldn’t give up very much for him at this point. But this is also the point that you want to take a chance on him, so I’m conflicted. He could be another Filatov or Yakupov...or you could be acquiring another Olli Jokinen. It is a perfect comparable for what could be. Another big Finn drafted high. 4-6 years of play and stats that make you wonder why he’s still in NA and the NHL, and then a star is born. Bigger players take time. That irrefutable. Will his attitude evolve with his game? That could be the biggest hurdle.

Overall, I’d take the risk even though it might not work out. I’d take the risk because this is close to as low as price it would take to acquire him. Next year his price will be rock bottom, before in two years he’s a star out of nowhere.

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Lagoon wrote:Puljujarvi is probably the player I’m most confused about. There’s a reason Columbus GM Kekäläinen didn’t draft him 3rd overall and took PLD instead. With all his Finnish connections, he of all GM’s knows him best. That was probably the first red flag. His play is uninspiring since then. Sure, he had a very good first year with the opportunities he was given and his fancy stats back that up. In the last two seasons however, more red flags.

******************This recent article is pretty damning, ARTICLE STARTS
“If you missed Jesse Puljujarvi on Friday re-stating his demand to be traded, the Cult of Hockey’s David Staples recounts it here. While I have written and still think it’s possible Puljujarvi will be in camp this Fall, the bigger question has really become: How did we get to this point? There’s no question the organization has made its share of mistakes in developing the player. But the examples of stubbornness that Puljujarvi and his agent have displayed through these “negotiations”? Multiple observations and insider comments suggest to me that this same stubbornness showed up all-too frequently on the ice and in the dressing room as well. Examples:

-It has been described to me by multiple sources close to the team how Todd McLellan invested hours upon hours into trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton. One of Todd’s frustrations was Jesse’s inconsistency in getting to the net. There, the player’s size & skill combination could be a real factor. When Puljujarvi would do this and was successful Todd would not miss the opportunity to praise him. He would point out how positioning on the play was critical. But then the next shift Puljujarvi would stubbornly appear back on the perimeter again. Todd got frustrated.

-Part of McLellan’s struggle was that he was often in the position of being “the bad cop” on the staff. Perhaps a good complimentary step would be to assign a coach to Puljujarvi whose job would be to “catch Jesse doing things right”? So this past fall Manny Viveiros was brought in. One of his key assignments was to attach himself to the young Finn which he did. But Manny didn’t even make as much progress as McLellan had. And remember: Viveiros has a reputation of being able to connect with today’s player. Observers say it was if advice would go in one ear…and right out the other.

-New head coach Ken Hitchcock was so confident that he had the answer he reversed a decision to have Puljujarvi spend the rest of the season in Bakersfield. Much to the consternation and confusion of the Puljujarvi camp, the Oilers recalled him yet again. Hitchcock is the very personification of stubborn when it comes to insisting that players play for him a certain way, especially without the puck. But as it turned out Hitch (the 2nd winning-est coach in NHL history) didn’t have the keys to the car, either. The winger’s TOI over his last 10 games topped 10 minutes only 3 times. 3 other times it fell into the single digits. Yes, the bad hip also contributed to that.

-Meanwhile, through all of the above, his teammates struggled to connect with him on the ice. Often, especially on the power play. Puljujarvi would repeatedly head to the wrong spot. He would literally bump into them. And when they would try to explain it to him their words of advice seemed to fall flat. Was he not listening…not understanding…or not agreeing? Eventually, although none of these players would ever dream of saying it in public…I am made to understand that they quietly asked just not to play with him anymore. There’s no suggestion they disliked him as a guy. Just that he was just hard to play with.

Did Jesse perhaps just not understand? I think we’d all have time for that issue, right? Well…there has been a lot of ink spilled on Puljujarvi’s perceived language barrier. However, one particular person who was in that dressing room last season was asked about that very factor, and he answered:

“No, he knows way more that he lets on”.

That same person (who shall remain anonymous) was then asked, “So what’s the problem with Jesse, really”?

The answer, shrugged back, was once again: “He’s just stubborn”.

Huh. You don’t say…

So…if you’re a prospect for whom things have just not gone your way (and again, not all his doing by any means) at some point…don’t you figure out that “stubborn” isn’t a trait that is going to do you any favors?”
******************* ARTICLE OVER
I wouldn’t give up very much for him at this point. But this is also the point that you want to take a chance on him, so I’m conflicted. He could be another Filatov or Yakupov...or you could be acquiring another Olli Jokinen. It is a perfect comparable for what could be. Another big Finn drafted high. 4-6 years of play and stats that make you wonder why he’s still in NA and the NHL, and then a star is born. Bigger players take time. That irrefutable. Will his attitude evolve with his game? That could be the biggest hurdle.

Overall, I’d take the risk even though it might not work out. I’d take the risk because this is close to as low as price it would take to acquire him. Next year his price will be rock bottom, before in two years he’s a star out of nowhere.

I'd take the risk if it's low cost, I just don't understand when I see people on other sites want to trade Tierney or somebody like that for him. That doesn't make sense to me.

DefenceWinsChampionships


Veteran
Veteran
My point exactly.

Giving up Boedker - no loss.
Giving up a 4th - there's an equal chance the 4th amounts to nothing
Giving up Lajoie - had 15 good games last year then disappeared (injured or not). Was he someone Boucher liked? I don't think he's a huge loss given the depth the Sens have in that position.

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
Lajoie had more offensive success with Ottawa than in the AHL so don't expect him to continue having good offensive numbers. And without offense he really is write average. He impressed Boucher at camp, although most didn't agree with that assessment.

Honestly, he has very little value in Ottawa but might have a little in a trade. Usually it's the other way around here.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

Lagoon

Lagoon
Veteran
Veteran
wprager wrote:Lavoie had more offensive success with Ottawa than in the AHL so don't expect him to continue having good offensive numbers.

Sounds like it is time for Dorion to do his thing ala Hammond and Condon in that case. A 10-game hotstreak in Ottawa is enough to get the top-selling usher a multi-year contract.

Flo The Action

Flo The Action
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
wprager wrote:Lajoie had more offensive success with Ottawa than in the AHL so don't expect him to continue having good offensive numbers. And without offense he really is write average. He impressed Boucher at camp, although most didn't agree with that assessment.

Honestly, he has very little value in Ottawa but might have a little in a trade. Usually it's the other way around here.

I think Lajoie was playing hurt though. Definitely deserved to go back to belle though.

IMO Lajoie probably has a somewhat lower value than Puljujarvi and part of that was because of drafted position. But Edmonton could use another Dman prospect also. Boedker is probably slightly better than he was last season. He’s miscassed as a fourth liner. It’s not his game. He needs a more offensive C to play with. He’s probably not a top 6 anymore but he could be useful.

At this point Puljujarvi probably won’t stsrt the season with Edmonton. Someone will probably offer up more than my offer but I don’t care as my expectations are low on what that player could become.

Flo The Action

Flo The Action
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
Lagoon wrote:Puljujarvi is probably the player I’m most confused about. There’s a reason Columbus GM Kekäläinen didn’t draft him 3rd overall and took PLD instead. With all his Finnish connections, he of all GM’s knows him best. That was probably the first red flag. His play is uninspiring since then. Sure, he had a very good first year with the opportunities he was given and his fancy stats back that up. In the last two seasons however, more red flags.

******************This recent article is pretty damning, ARTICLE STARTS
“If you missed Jesse Puljujarvi on Friday re-stating his demand to be traded, the Cult of Hockey’s David Staples recounts it here. While I have written and still think it’s possible Puljujarvi will be in camp this Fall, the bigger question has really become: How did we get to this point? There’s no question the organization has made its share of mistakes in developing the player. But the examples of stubbornness that Puljujarvi and his agent have displayed through these “negotiations”? Multiple observations and insider comments suggest to me that this same stubbornness showed up all-too frequently on the ice and in the dressing room as well. Examples:

-It has been described to me by multiple sources close to the team how Todd McLellan invested hours upon hours into trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton. One of Todd’s frustrations was Jesse’s inconsistency in getting to the net. There, the player’s size & skill combination could be a real factor. When Puljujarvi would do this and was successful Todd would not miss the opportunity to praise him. He would point out how positioning on the play was critical. But then the next shift Puljujarvi would stubbornly appear back on the perimeter again. Todd got frustrated.

-Part of McLellan’s struggle was that he was often in the position of being “the bad cop” on the staff. Perhaps a good complimentary step would be to assign a coach to Puljujarvi whose job would be to “catch Jesse doing things right”? So this past fall Manny Viveiros was brought in. One of his key assignments was to attach himself to the young Finn which he did. But Manny didn’t even make as much progress as McLellan had. And remember: Viveiros has a reputation of being able to connect with today’s player. Observers say it was if advice would go in one ear…and right out the other.

-New head coach Ken Hitchcock was so confident that he had the answer he reversed a decision to have Puljujarvi spend the rest of the season in Bakersfield. Much to the consternation and confusion of the Puljujarvi camp, the Oilers recalled him yet again. Hitchcock is the very personification of stubborn when it comes to insisting that players play for him a certain way, especially without the puck. But as it turned out Hitch (the 2nd winning-est coach in NHL history) didn’t have the keys to the car, either. The winger’s TOI over his last 10 games topped 10 minutes only 3 times. 3 other times it fell into the single digits. Yes, the bad hip also contributed to that.

-Meanwhile, through all of the above, his teammates struggled to connect with him on the ice. Often, especially on the power play. Puljujarvi would repeatedly head to the wrong spot. He would literally bump into them. And when they would try to explain it to him their words of advice seemed to fall flat. Was he not listening…not understanding…or not agreeing? Eventually, although none of these players would ever dream of saying it in public…I am made to understand that they quietly asked just not to play with him anymore. There’s no suggestion they disliked him as a guy. Just that he was just hard to play with.

Did Jesse perhaps just not understand? I think we’d all have time for that issue, right? Well…there has been a lot of ink spilled on Puljujarvi’s perceived language barrier. However, one particular person who was in that dressing room last season was asked about that very factor, and he answered:

“No, he knows way more that he lets on”.

That same person (who shall remain anonymous) was then asked, “So what’s the problem with Jesse, really”?

The answer, shrugged back, was once again: “He’s just stubborn”.

Huh. You don’t say…

So…if you’re a prospect for whom things have just not gone your way (and again, not all his doing by any means) at some point…don’t you figure out that “stubborn” isn’t a trait that is going to do you any favors?”
******************* ARTICLE OVER
I wouldn’t give up very much for him at this point. But this is also the point that you want to take a chance on him, so I’m conflicted. He could be another Filatov or Yakupov...or you could be acquiring another Olli Jokinen. It is a perfect comparable for what could be. Another big Finn drafted high. 4-6 years of play and stats that make you wonder why he’s still in NA and the NHL, and then a star is born. Bigger players take time. That irrefutable. Will his attitude evolve with his game? That could be the biggest hurdle.

Overall, I’d take the risk even though it might not work out. I’d take the risk because this is close to as low as price it would take to acquire him. Next year his price will be rock bottom, before in two years he’s a star out of nowhere.
Very interesting article.

Is it worth it to bring in a guy that guys won’t want to play with? The fact that he demanded a trade still speaks of how stubborn he still is. If he puts it together it probably won’t be with his next team but due to more failure and being re-traded.

DefenceWinsChampionships


Veteran
Veteran
He fits the mold of what they want to do it Ottawa. He's a young guy that needs to be developed. I am sure many think Duclair is the same. Can DJ Smith hone him in? JP is a RFA. Sign him to a prove it contract and give him top nine minutes. If he can't hack it, demote him or let him go to the KHL.

A friend of mine played for Hitchcock. Hated him. Not surprised by this in Edmonton.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
I dont like to hear of young guys who dont have the drive to do the things expected, like drive the net and pay the price. Perimeter players are a thing of the past unless you're absolutely amazing

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
Hoffman was the poster boy for perimeter players.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

Lagoon

Lagoon
Veteran
Veteran
wprager wrote:Hoffman was the poster boy for perimeter players.

I’d take a 35 goal scoring perimeter player on my team.

wprager

wprager
Administrator
Administrator
Yep. Not going to win too many battles but a game-breaker nevertheless.


_________________
Hey, I don't have all the answers. In life, to be honest, I've failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my wife. I love my life. And I wish you my kind of success.
- Dicky Fox

DefenceWinsChampionships


Veteran
Veteran
Curious to see what Hoffman's next contract looks like. Probably not with Florida either.

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
In no way would I want Hoffman near my team ever again. First class prick. Florida has tried to trade him the last two seasons for a reason besides cap space.

Lagoon

Lagoon
Veteran
Veteran
I didn’t say I wanted Hoffman. But give me another player that can do what he does on the ice and I’d take him. He scores.

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