Spezza trade

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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by Guest on Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:18 pm

    It would be pretty friggin sweet though :afro:

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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by Riprock on Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:34 pm

    Here are some proposals from TSN columnist Scott Cullen:

    To OTT: (from CHI)
    Khabibulin
    Wisniewski
    Troy Brouwer/Dave Bolland


    to OTT: (from CLB)
    Pascal Leclaire
    Filatov/Voracek
    Modin

    to OTT: (from LAK)
    O'Sullivan
    Preissing
    prospect

    to OTT: (from EDM)
    Horcoff
    Gilbert
    Roloson

    to OTT: (from ATL)
    Lehtonen
    Schneider
    +

    to OTT: (from FLA)
    Bouwmeester
    Frolik
    Weiss

    for
    Spezza
    Vermette

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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by PTFlea on Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:48 pm

    No for everything with the exception of maybe the Edmonton proposal - but it does us no good if a bonafide stud puck mover isn't involved.

    Scott Cullen is funny, which of these would you suggest helps the Sens?

    If you said none, you're correct.
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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by PTFlea on Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:49 pm

    Wait, I'll take the first one, but I want both Columbus prospects and Leclaire.

    No? Diddle off.
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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by jamvan on Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:51 pm

    This is a smoke screen boys, Spezza is going no-where.
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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by Riprock on Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:53 pm

    I sure hope he isnt, but you can't say that Bouwmeester, Frolik and Weiss for Spezza and Vermette doesnt help us.
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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by asq2 on Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:18 pm

    cash wrote:My question for the members of the forum is this:

    Regardless of the Sens standings at the time; if a team in serious contention were to offer 3 very solid prospects and an early round draft pick without a roster replacement for Spezza, would you take it?
    Think: Abdelkader, Leino, Helm and a 2nd round pick for just Spezza.
    Try to forget the specifics and whether or not Detroit would actually do it (because they most certainly would not) just focus on the theory behind it:

    Would you take three quality prospects with second (maybe even first) line potential, that will undoubtedly crack the lineup within 2 years, for Spezza?

    If not, and if a "franchise" player were not coming in return, what would it take - realistically - for you to willingly trade Spezza? Would it take a mixture of roster players, picks, and prospects? Would a couple roster players do it for you? Would they be young and enthusiastic or would they be experienced and cagey?

    AND if you cannot part with Spezza without a potential franchise player coming in return, who do you believe to be in Spezza's "class"? Who would be worth the young playmaker? Would it be straight up or would you need more than just that one player - or would you need to give up more than just Spezza?


    **** no.


    Turn it around:

    Foligno, O'Brien, Regin and a second for Datsyuk?


    You're frustrated with Spezza, I get that, but he has NOT been even the worst player on his line.
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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by asq2 on Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:20 pm

    Tukker wrote:
    Dawg's Wife wrote:There are only two players I trade Spezza for...

    Getzlaf and Luongo...
    I'm just putting this out there, its just a thought, but-


    Spezza, Ott 1st, SJ 1st

    for Thornton

    Spezza in playoffs >>>>> Thornton in the playoffs.
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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by asq2 on Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:22 pm

    Cronenbergfan wrote:
    hemlock34 wrote:You'd hesitate to do Luongo for Spezza? I'd do that faster than Garrioch could inhale a cheese pizza.

    I say that only because the hole left at Center would be slightly worrisome.
    However, Zach Smith seems to be a monster in the making and he could, presumably, step right in...

    Whoa.

    Zack Smith has looked impressive in the AHL, sure.

    But there's about a 0.0001% chance he could fill in the massive, gaping hole losing Spezza would leave at centre.
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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by beerandsens on Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:35 pm

    Neely4Life wrote:Its not tough to look around the league and see a PPG center on most of the teams in the league. More than a couple teams have 2. Spezza isnt an irreplaceable asset we have.

    Yes, if you want to lose on a deal you can grab a PPG center from almost any team.

    But Spezza was scoring 21% more than those guys....Spezza had 1.21 Pts/G last year, seventh best of ALL players in the league, not just centers. Also tied for 6th in league scoring with Zetterberg and Lecavalier. I was shocked to discover that he was a +26! 12th best in the league. And he played in 76 games...

    Believe me, Spezza frequently disappoints me, but the extremes that are being talked about here need to be reeled back into a realistic context. Jason Spezza is not a commodity. He is a franchise player, just like the company he is in statistically.

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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by Guest on Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:51 pm

    asq2 wrote:
    cash wrote:My question for the members of the forum is this:

    Regardless of the Sens standings at the time; if a team in serious contention were to offer 3 very solid prospects and an early round draft pick without a roster replacement for Spezza, would you take it?
    Think: Abdelkader, Leino, Helm and a 2nd round pick for just Spezza.
    Try to forget the specifics and whether or not Detroit would actually do it (because they most certainly would not) just focus on the theory behind it:

    Would you take three quality prospects with second (maybe even first) line potential, that will undoubtedly crack the lineup within 2 years, for Spezza?

    If not, and if a "franchise" player were not coming in return, what would it take - realistically - for you to willingly trade Spezza? Would it take a mixture of roster players, picks, and prospects? Would a couple roster players do it for you? Would they be young and enthusiastic or would they be experienced and cagey?

    AND if you cannot part with Spezza without a potential franchise player coming in return, who do you believe to be in Spezza's "class"? Who would be worth the young playmaker? Would it be straight up or would you need more than just that one player - or would you need to give up more than just Spezza?


    **** no.


    Turn it around:

    Foligno, O'Brien, Regin and a second for Datsyuk?


    You're frustrated with Spezza, I get that, but he has NOT been even the worst player on his line.
    I'm actually not that frustrated with Spezza. I hated the way he seemed to coast back for the puck at the end of the game and I know he's a better player than he has been in the past 2-3 games. Nonetheless, I still think he's going to end up being a better player and a better playmaker than Thornton going-forward...

    I don't want to trade Spezza.
    I want Spezza to play a smarter, more consistent, more cohesive style of hockey. He will never be a hard-nosed Ryan Getzlaf type of player, but he is more innately talented than Getzlaf and can be equally valuable to a team - if not more-so.

    And considering how many players have been on his line, you're really just stating the obvious Razz
    Seriously, though: Heatley also needs to step the Diddle up!
    I see what Hartsburg is trying to do by keeping the two of them together, but I can't help but think that they would be more useful on seperate lines.

    Imo they should give Spezza, Zubov and Vermette and force Heatley to create with Kelly and Foligno - or better yet, Kelly and Winchester, so Heatley at least has a playmaker who can get him the puck when he finds a seam (albeit not as well as Spezza does...) And don't give me that "Kelly doesn't have the skill" bs...He may have hands of stone, but he has great smarts.

    (Good point about the trade, though. I was really just throwing it out there for discussion to see if anyone could think of a viable trade option that didn't include a franchise player coming back)
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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by PTFlea on Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:39 pm

    cash wrote:
    I'm actually not that frustrated with Spezza. I hated the way he seemed to coast back for the puck at the end of the game and I know he's a better player than he has been in the past 2-3 games. Nonetheless, I still think he's going to end up being a better player and a better playmaker than Thornton going-forward...

    I don't want to trade Spezza.
    I want Spezza to play a smarter, more consistent, more cohesive style of hockey. He will never be a hard-nosed Ryan Getzlaf type of player, but he is more innately talented than Getzlaf and can be equally valuable to a team - if not more-so.

    And considering how many players have been on his line, you're really just stating the obvious Razz
    Seriously, though: Heatley also needs to step the Diddle up!
    I see what Hartsburg is trying to do by keeping the two of them together, but I can't help but think that they would be more useful on seperate lines.

    Imo they should give Spezza, Zubov and Vermette and force Heatley to create with Kelly and Foligno - or better yet, Kelly and Winchester, so Heatley at least has a playmaker who can get him the puck when he finds a seam (albeit not as well as Spezza does...) And don't give me that "Kelly doesn't have the skill" bs...He may have hands of stone, but he has great smarts.

    (Good point about the trade, though. I was really just throwing it out there for discussion to see if anyone could think of a viable trade option that didn't include a franchise player coming back)

    Diddle finally...some smart comments about Spezza and the situation.
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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by asq2 on Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:50 pm

    beerandsens wrote:
    Neely4Life wrote:Its not tough to look around the league and see a PPG center on most of the teams in the league. More than a couple teams have 2. Spezza isnt an irreplaceable asset we have.

    Yes, if you want to lose on a deal you can grab a PPG center from almost any team.

    But Spezza was scoring 21% more than those guys....Spezza had 1.21 Pts/G last year, seventh best of ALL players in the league, not just centers. Also tied for 6th in league scoring with Zetterberg and Lecavalier. I was shocked to discover that he was a +26! 12th best in the league. And he played in 76 games...

    Believe me, Spezza frequently disappoints me, but the extremes that are being talked about here need to be reeled back into a realistic context. Jason Spezza is not a commodity. He is a franchise player, just like the company he is in statistically.

    I haven't recalibrated the numbers yet, but a few games back I calculated that Spezza's PPG since the lock-out is higher than Ovechkin's.

    He's the best centre in the history of the franchise.

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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by Guest on Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:54 pm

    asq2 wrote:He's the best centre in the history of the franchise.
    Not a hell of a lot of competition... he's better than Yashin, Daigle and Bonk :D

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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by Guest on Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:15 pm

    asq2 wrote:
    beerandsens wrote:
    Neely4Life wrote:Its not tough to look around the league and see a PPG center on most of the teams in the league. More than a couple teams have 2. Spezza isnt an irreplaceable asset we have.

    Yes, if you want to lose on a deal you can grab a PPG center from almost any team.

    But Spezza was scoring 21% more than those guys....Spezza had 1.21 Pts/G last year, seventh best of ALL players in the league, not just centers. Also tied for 6th in league scoring with Zetterberg and Lecavalier. I was shocked to discover that he was a +26! 12th best in the league. And he played in 76 games...

    Believe me, Spezza frequently disappoints me, but the extremes that are being talked about here need to be reeled back into a realistic context. Jason Spezza is not a commodity. He is a franchise player, just like the company he is in statistically.

    I haven't recalibrated the numbers yet, but a few games back I calculated that Spezza's PPG since the lock-out is higher than Ovechkin's.

    He's the best centre in the history of the franchise.
    That is definitely a possibility, but watch out for that Ovechkin-Backstrom-Semin line - assuming Semin isn't badly injured. They will be causing fits around the league in an even worse way than the CASH line did.
    I still expect Ovechkin to top 130 points this season...
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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by Riprock on Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:45 pm

    OMG, this is hilarious... Eklund claims there's a rumour that Vermette will be traded to Nashville for Greg DeVries, though something else will be added to the deal to sweeten the pot for Ottawa... yeah, like not having DeVries and getting someone like Franson and Hamhuis.
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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by PTFlea on Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:05 am

    DashRiprock wrote:OMG, this is hilarious... Eklund claims there's a rumour that Vermette will be traded to Nashville for Greg DeVries, though something else will be added to the deal to sweeten the pot for Ottawa... yeah, like not having DeVries and getting someone like Franson and Hamhuis.

    :D Yeah, that's the pot sweetener. That we don't have to take DeVries. I'll take Weber for Spezza. Or Vermette for Hamuis. But the day Murray trades Vermette for DeVries is the day he's finally lost his mind and should/will be relieved of his duty.
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    Re: Spezza trade

    Post by dennycrane on Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:11 am

    More often than not, the team that gives up the best player loses the deal in the long run. I can't see Ottawa getting a player as good as Spezza back.

    To the original post, I would not trade Spezza for prospects and a pick. I doubt that I would trade him anyways. If I were to, I would want a young established star and a first round pick or two. Vermette, Fisher, Kelly, and McAmmond down the middle isn't horrible if you add in 1 or 2 better wingers and an offensive d-man.

    Fisher/Kelly - same sort of strong defensive player who chips in a point every other game. Combined, they are a cap hit of 6.4 million for the next four years including this one. Does this seem like a luxury to anyone else?

    My bet is that 2 of Kelly, Vermette, Neil, and Fisher are gone by this time next week. It just isn't working anymore.

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