Whitney? What are the trade deadline options?

So there's a lot of talk about Ray Whitney and alot of teams right now, but it seems like the talk regarding Ottawa is gaining some momentum. What does everybody think? He'd definitely add some nice scoring touch on a 2nd line, and it seems like this guy always shows up for the playoffs...

Thoughts?

I'd love to have the guy, I'm just nervous about getting into a bidding war, the last thing we need is to give up a good pick/prospect for a rental.

With that being said, he would look awesome on our second line, and would fit quite well into one of the PP units.

The $$ is still a problem, it will be tough to make it work.

Two things: 1. Ottawa and Carolina have a good relationship, having done business before. 2. Murray likes to go after UFA's (Commodore, Stillman, Comrie x2).

Whitney to Ottawa was my guess, but I am now thinking it is unlikely to happen. Team is playing very well, chemistry is there, how does adding Whitney effect the team? What's the cost? Where does he lineup? Who gets the shaft?

Whitney will be viewed as the consolation prize to the teams who miss out on / aren't in a position to bid on Kovalchuk. There will be many of them, and the bidding for Whitney will probably be reasonably fierce as a result. A 2nd and Lee -- something like that might be enough, I dunno.

I'd have a hard time giving up a 2nd, tho'. Our last three 2nd round picks are Wiercioch, Lehner, and Silfverberg. There are a lot of good players still lurking around in the 31-60 spots in the draft, and BM has a knack for picking them out. And whatever his issues, Lee is not a throwaway piece either -- he was actually pretty good for us in the dozen or so games he's played this year. If he was on a one-way deal, he may well have pushed Campoli/Picard off of the ice at times this year.

The real question is, are we a Ray Whitney away from a real shot at the Cup this year? I dunno. After WAS, the East is beatable, for sure -- but we definitely weren't world beaters before this month. Is this the real Sens team we're seeing, or a flash in the pan? And how much pressure does BM/Melnyk feel to squeeze as many playoff games out of this team as we can, in order to make up for lost revenue this year? Would we give up a second just to make sure we go 2/3 round deep?

We've got about 10 games before the trade deadline to figure all of that stuff out.

I don't think we're a Ray Whitney away from the Cup/deep playoff run.

Nor do I think we should be trading young players for 37 year olds at this stage in the game.

rooneypoo wrote:Whitney will be viewed as the consolation prize to the teams who miss out on / aren't in a position to bid on Kovalchuk. There will be many of them, and the bidding for Whitney will probably be reasonably fierce as a result. A 2nd and Lee -- something like that might be enough, I dunno.

I'd have a hard time giving up a 2nd, tho'. Our last three 2nd round picks are Wiercioch, Lehner, and Silfverberg. There are a lot of good players still lurking around in the 31-60 spots in the draft, and BM has a knack for picking them out. And whatever his issues, Lee is not a throwaway piece either -- he was actually pretty good for us in the dozen or so games he's played this year. If he was on a one-way deal, he may well have pushed Campoli/Picard off of the ice at times this year.

The real question is, are we a Ray Whitney away from a real shot at the Cup this year? I dunno. After WAS, the East is beatable, for sure -- but we definitely weren't world beaters before this month. Is this the real Sens team we're seeing, or a flash in the pan? And how much pressure does BM/Melnyk feel to squeeze as many playoff games out of this team as we can, in order to make up for lost revenue this year? Would we give up a second just to make sure we go 2/3 round deep?

We've got about 10 games before the trade deadline to figure all of that stuff out.

To go 2 or 3 rounds deep is easily worth a 2nd in revenue alone I'd say. It's quite optimistic though I think. Everything looks great right now with the team rocking, but they've also looked equally bad.

In short to answer your question, I would do that yes.

hemlock wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:Whitney will be viewed as the consolation prize to the teams who miss out on / aren't in a position to bid on Kovalchuk. There will be many of them, and the bidding for Whitney will probably be reasonably fierce as a result. A 2nd and Lee -- something like that might be enough, I dunno.

I'd have a hard time giving up a 2nd, tho'. Our last three 2nd round picks are Wiercioch, Lehner, and Silfverberg. There are a lot of good players still lurking around in the 31-60 spots in the draft, and BM has a knack for picking them out. And whatever his issues, Lee is not a throwaway piece either -- he was actually pretty good for us in the dozen or so games he's played this year. If he was on a one-way deal, he may well have pushed Campoli/Picard off of the ice at times this year.

The real question is, are we a Ray Whitney away from a real shot at the Cup this year? I dunno. After WAS, the East is beatable, for sure -- but we definitely weren't world beaters before this month. Is this the real Sens team we're seeing, or a flash in the pan? And how much pressure does BM/Melnyk feel to squeeze as many playoff games out of this team as we can, in order to make up for lost revenue this year? Would we give up a second just to make sure we go 2/3 round deep?

We've got about 10 games before the trade deadline to figure all of that stuff out.

To go 2 or 3 rounds deep is easily worth a 2nd in revenue alone I'd say. It's quite optimistic though I think. Everything looks great right now with the team rocking, but they've also looked equally bad.

In short to answer your question, I would do that yes.

From a revenue perspective, yes; from a team development perspective, probably not.

Whether or not we decide to be a buyer this March will have as much to do with the bottom line for Melnyk as it does the future development of this team. One smallish move probably wouldn't hurt us too much -- but a 2nd + Lee is not exactly small.

Tough call.

rooneypoo wrote:

hemlock wrote:

rooneypoo wrote:Whitney will be viewed as the consolation prize to the teams who miss out on / aren't in a position to bid on Kovalchuk. There will be many of them, and the bidding for Whitney will probably be reasonably fierce as a result. A 2nd and Lee -- something like that might be enough, I dunno.

I'd have a hard time giving up a 2nd, tho'. Our last three 2nd round picks are Wiercioch, Lehner, and Silfverberg. There are a lot of good players still lurking around in the 31-60 spots in the draft, and BM has a knack for picking them out. And whatever his issues, Lee is not a throwaway piece either -- he was actually pretty good for us in the dozen or so games he's played this year. If he was on a one-way deal, he may well have pushed Campoli/Picard off of the ice at times this year.

The real question is, are we a Ray Whitney away from a real shot at the Cup this year? I dunno. After WAS, the East is beatable, for sure -- but we definitely weren't world beaters before this month. Is this the real Sens team we're seeing, or a flash in the pan? And how much pressure does BM/Melnyk feel to squeeze as many playoff games out of this team as we can, in order to make up for lost revenue this year? Would we give up a second just to make sure we go 2/3 round deep?

We've got about 10 games before the trade deadline to figure all of that stuff out.

To go 2 or 3 rounds deep is easily worth a 2nd in revenue alone I'd say. It's quite optimistic though I think. Everything looks great right now with the team rocking, but they've also looked equally bad.

In short to answer your question, I would do that yes.

From a revenue perspective, yes; from a team development perspective, probably not.

Whether or not we decide to be a buyer this March will have as much to do with the bottom line for Melnyk as it does the future development of this team. One smallish move probably wouldn't hurt us too much -- but a 2nd + Lee is not exactly small.

Tough call.

If it had to be done, I'd prefer to move one of Picard or Campoli because of the one way nature of their deals. All things being equal, I'd much prefer to have a two way deal for flexibility. Melnyk may see this as an oppty to make a run in the playoffs and make some extra dollars although he's never been chincy (sp?) with the chequebook.

I'd have to say it's worth it. Also, making a commitment like that could go a long way to winning back some of the "fans".

Hoags wrote:I don't think we're a Ray Whitney away from the Cup/deep playoff run.

Nor do I think we should be trading young players for 37 year olds at this stage in the game.

That was my thinking, but this recent string of games makes me believe that this team could win a round or two. The revenue would be really nice, as well as getting some former fans back into the SBP.

I'm violently opposed to overpaying for Whitney though. It's practically guaranteed that he's a rental.

I guess the thing to underscore is that all of this things (team chemistry, team development, revenue, getting fans back, etc.) will factor into the decision as to whether or not we become buyers.

No matter what BM does, he will upset some fans. He makes a move, the team chemistry guys and the team development guys will lose their Dung because he's mortgaging the future. He doesn't make a move, and the Sens believers and fans lose their Dung because he isn't doing what it takes to win a cup / win back their love. He can't win.

rooneypoo wrote:I guess the thing to underscore is that all of this things (team chemistry, team development, revenue, getting fans back, etc.) will factor into the decision as to whether or not we become buyers.

No matter what BM does, he will upset some fans. He makes a move, the team chemistry guys and the team development guys will lose their Dung because he's mortgaging the future. He doesn't make a move, and the Sens believers and fans lose their Dung because he isn't doing what it takes to win a cup / win back their love. He can't win.

Sort of like the Heatley saga with less at stake. Perhaps someone will scoop Whitney up before the deadline in a surprise move and Murray has an out. "We just didn't see anyone who we thought could step into our top 6 without giving up one of our prized d prospects."

I really think he'll pull a rabbit out of the hat if he truely believes this team can compete. Someone totally off the Sens radar as of late. I just hope it's not the same sort of deadline blockbuster as Martin Diddling Lapointe.

hemlock wrote:

Hoags wrote:I don't think we're a Ray Whitney away from the Cup/deep playoff run.

Nor do I think we should be trading young players for 37 year olds at this stage in the game.

That was my thinking, but this recent string of games makes me believe that this team could win a round or two. The revenue would be really nice, as well as getting some former fans back into the SBP.

I'm violently opposed to overpaying for Whitney though. It's practically guaranteed that he's a rental.

We've never ever done well with rentals. Our castoffs like shannon, kelly, lee etc. could net us someone much more useful than Whitney.

Like Mueller perhaps.

If BM is going to be swinging trades, it better be to solidify our core. Let's get some top 6 wingers that we could conceivably keep for the long run if they pan out.

Given how tight we are against the cap, and how well we're playing as a unit (which makes it really hard to subtract players), I'm not sure how BM can do anything other than a Marty Lapointe-esque deal -- which is, in my mind, reason not to do a deal at all.

We'll be bringing Z. Smith up shortly after the deadline, I'm pretty sure, and he's a guy who may very well challenge our Cheechoos and Shannons for ice time in short order. Consider that our deadline acquisition .

Hoags wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hoags wrote:I don't think we're a Ray Whitney away from the Cup/deep playoff run.

Nor do I think we should be trading young players for 37 year olds at this stage in the game.

That was my thinking, but this recent string of games makes me believe that this team could win a round or two. The revenue would be really nice, as well as getting some former fans back into the SBP.

I'm violently opposed to overpaying for Whitney though. It's practically guaranteed that he's a rental.

We've never ever done well with rentals. Our castoffs like shannon, kelly, lee etc. could net us someone much more useful than Whitney.

Like Mueller perhaps.

If BM is going to be swinging trades, it better be to solidify our core. Let's get some top 6 wingers that we could conceivably keep for the long run if they pan out.

Who are we going to move though? Guys who you can add to your top 6 long term aren't cheap.

SeawaySensFan wrote:Lapointe was a depth move. The Wizard would be a bigger addition with a bigger role expected. Kinda like when we got Stillman to "get Fish going".

How did that work out again?

hemlock wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:Lapointe was a depth move. The Wizard would be a bigger addition with a bigger role expected. Kinda like when we got Stillman to "get Fish going".

How did that work out again?

Stillman was very good for us. That line with Vermette and Foligno, I believe, was far and away our best during that disastrous playoff series.

I would have loved to have kept him, if only we could have gotten him for a more reasonable price than FLA paid him.

Hoags wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hoags wrote:I don't think we're a Ray Whitney away from the Cup/deep playoff run.

Nor do I think we should be trading young players for 37 year olds at this stage in the game.

That was my thinking, but this recent string of games makes me believe that this team could win a round or two. The revenue would be really nice, as well as getting some former fans back into the SBP.

I'm violently opposed to overpaying for Whitney though. It's practically guaranteed that he's a rental.

We've never ever done well with rentals. Our castoffs like shannon, kelly, lee etc. could net us someone much more useful than Whitney.

Like Mueller perhaps.

If BM is going to be swinging trades, it better be to solidify our core. Let's get some top 6 wingers that we could conceivably keep for the long run if they pan out.

You mention a guy like Peter Mueller, a guy with a ton of talent, but seemingly has lost his way in PHX. He's definately on the block, how much do you think the Yotes would be looking for in return. Would they be interested in a Brian Lee, another player who seems to need a change of address?

rooneypoo wrote:

hemlock wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:Lapointe was a depth move. The Wizard would be a bigger addition with a bigger role expected. Kinda like when we got Stillman to "get Fish going".

How did that work out again?

Stillman was very good for us. That line with Vermette and Foligno, I believe, was far and away our best during that disastrous playoff series.

I would have loved to have kept him, if only we could have gotten him for a more reasonable price than FLA paid him.

Oh I wasn't unhappy with Stillman. I was talking about the get Fisher going part. I would have been happy to keep him. Although, would that mean Kovalev wouldn't be here? As much as I like Stillman, he doesn't touch Kovalev when Kovalev is playing well.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

SDH89 wrote:I'd love to have the guy, I'm just nervous about getting into a bidding war, the last thing we need is to give up a good pick/prospect for a rental.

With that being said, he would look awesome on our second line, and would fit quite well into one of the PP units.

The $$ is still a problem, it will be tough to make it work.

I guess you need to decide if you want Kelly on your 3rd or 4th line and Picard in the pressbox or The Wizard on your 2nd or 1st line.

Tough call there.

What if we got Rutherford drunk and showed him Cheechoos stats from 5 years ago? Maybe we could go straight up?

SDH89 wrote:

Hoags wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hoags wrote:I don't think we're a Ray Whitney away from the Cup/deep playoff run.

Nor do I think we should be trading young players for 37 year olds at this stage in the game.

That was my thinking, but this recent string of games makes me believe that this team could win a round or two. The revenue would be really nice, as well as getting some former fans back into the SBP.

I'm violently opposed to overpaying for Whitney though. It's practically guaranteed that he's a rental.

We've never ever done well with rentals. Our castoffs like shannon, kelly, lee etc. could net us someone much more useful than Whitney.

Like Mueller perhaps.

If BM is going to be swinging trades, it better be to solidify our core. Let's get some top 6 wingers that we could conceivably keep for the long run if they pan out.

You mention a guy like Peter Mueller, a guy with a ton of talent, but seemingly has lost his way in PHX. He's definately on the block, how much do you think the Yotes would be looking for in return. Would they be interested in a Brian Lee, another player who seems to need a change of address?

Mueller is a talent. He had a 51 point rookie season. I just question where we'd fit another centreman. No matter, let's do it anyway! Mueller and Michalek for Lee/whatever it takes.

If we play 0.650 / 0.700 Hockey between now and the trade deadline, it'll change the picture in terms of expectations pretty drastically.

Mueller has gone from 22 goals, to 11 goals, to now 3 goals this year. The talent is obviously there, just something is not working for him currently. Let's take a chance.

Hoags wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hoags wrote:I don't think we're a Ray Whitney away from the Cup/deep playoff run.

Nor do I think we should be trading young players for 37 year olds at this stage in the game.

That was my thinking, but this recent string of games makes me believe that this team could win a round or two. The revenue would be really nice, as well as getting some former fans back into the SBP.

I'm violently opposed to overpaying for Whitney though. It's practically guaranteed that he's a rental.

We've never ever done well with rentals. Our castoffs like shannon, kelly, lee etc. could net us someone much more useful than Whitney.

Like Mueller perhaps.

If BM is going to be swinging trades, it better be to solidify our core. Let's get some top 6 wingers that we could conceivably keep for the long run if they pan out.

I really take exception of Kelly being called a "castoff".

TheAvatar wrote:

Hoags wrote:

hemlock wrote:

Hoags wrote:I don't think we're a Ray Whitney away from the Cup/deep playoff run.

Nor do I think we should be trading young players for 37 year olds at this stage in the game.

That was my thinking, but this recent string of games makes me believe that this team could win a round or two. The revenue would be really nice, as well as getting some former fans back into the SBP.

I'm violently opposed to overpaying for Whitney though. It's practically guaranteed that he's a rental.

We've never ever done well with rentals. Our castoffs like shannon, kelly, lee etc. could net us someone much more useful than Whitney.

Like Mueller perhaps.

If BM is going to be swinging trades, it better be to solidify our core. Let's get some top 6 wingers that we could conceivably keep for the long run if they pan out.

I really take exception of Kelly being called a "castoff".

Even Shannon has played his way out of that status imo.

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Hoags wrote:I don't think we're a Ray Whitney away from the Cup/deep playoff run.

Nor do I think we should be trading young players for 37 year olds at this stage in the game.

Let's say we had Whitney would you say that we're a Ryan Shannon or Chris Kelly and a Brian Lee and a pick away from a Cup run?

It won't cost you that much to get Whitney. As much as I hate the Mackenzie, I have to say that I'm hearing similar things to what he said on the broadcast last night. It will cost you a minor league player and a 2nd round pick (tops) to get him. We have an extra 2nd round from San Jose, and we also have some minor league players in Lee, Campoli, Picard whom we can't all keep, along with some players in Kelly, Shannon..etc that we might part with.

At this point, I would offer Lee and a 2nd and see if they bite...anything more than Campoli or Picard and a 2nd, or Kelly straight up I wouldn't do.

TheAvatar wrote:
I really take exception of Kelly being called a "castoff".

I meant castoff in the sense of "Sens player who is frequently mentioned in internet trade proposals"

Who actually has value (unlike Cheechoo).

Almost everyone has Winchester or Smith lined up as cheap replacements for him.

Devo wrote:

SeawaySensFan wrote:

Hoags wrote:I don't think we're a Ray Whitney away from the Cup/deep playoff run.

Nor do I think we should be trading young players for 37 year olds at this stage in the game.

Let's say we had Whitney would you say that we're a Ryan Shannon or Chris Kelly and a Brian Lee and a pick away from a Cup run?

It won't cost you that much to get Whitney. As much as I hate the Mackenzie, I have to say that I'm hearing similar things to what he said on the broadcast last night. It will cost you a minor league player and a 2nd round pick (tops) to get him. We have an extra 2nd round from San Jose, and we also have some minor league players in Lee, Campoli, Picard whom we can't all keep, along with some players in Kelly, Shannon..etc that we might part with.

At this point, I would offer Lee and a 2nd and see if they bite...anything more than Campoli or Picard and a 2nd, or Kelly straight up I wouldn't do.

But then the $ doesn't work. Even with Campoli or Picard. We're really tight against the cap.

And I consider a 2nd + Lee rather substantial, for reasons articulated above.

rooneypoo wrote:
But then the $ doesn't work. Even with Campoli or Picard. We're really tight against the cap.

And I consider a 2nd + Lee rather substantial, for reasons articulated above.

I will always defer to you as from what I've read you are normally on the ball, but Given Whitney's salary is 3.5 million wouldn't we have enough cap room by the time the trade deadline happened, and moving another player (ie campoli) out. I know it would be close, but Acquiring Whitney would allow us to another player down to the farm.

Hell maybe putting Cheechoo on waivers would be enough to have someone take him off our hands..