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GM Hockey » The other NHL teams » General Hockey talk » What's up with Phil Kessel?

What's up with Phil Kessel?

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16What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:46 pm

shabbs


Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
He's reportedly asking for a long-term deal at $5.5M/season. It's gonna be tough for him to get that.

Could he have taken the Bruins to arbitration since he's an RFA?

17What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:49 pm

Guest


Guest
shabbs wrote:He's reportedly asking for a long-term deal at $5.5M/season. It's gonna be tough for him to get that.

Could he have taken the Bruins to arbitration since he's an RFA?

I believe that an RFA only has arbitration rights, if they are still RFA status but not in their entry level deal. In other words, somewhere in years 4-6. I am also under the impression that a player can only ever be eligible once for arbitration.

I'm not positive, but this is what I understand.

18What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:51 pm

PTFlea


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Co-Founder
shabbs wrote:He's reportedly asking for a long-term deal at $5.5M/season. It's gonna be tough for him to get that.

Could he have taken the Bruins to arbitration since he's an RFA?

That's more of what I mean in that post. He should feel lucky that he's NHL ready after all he's been through - and that he's very good - and that he's on one of the top teams. 5.5? No. That's not fair to the team that supported you through the cancer. It's silly as well because the Bruins' can't do it.

Can't he wait to cash in? He doesn't have arb rights this year. I don't understand his stance? Shrug

Watch, he'll sign for 2.5 X 2 and everyone will laugh at all this.

19What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:55 pm

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
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hemlock wrote:
shabbs wrote:He's reportedly asking for a long-term deal at $5.5M/season. It's gonna be tough for him to get that.

Could he have taken the Bruins to arbitration since he's an RFA?

I believe that an RFA only has arbitration rights, if they are still RFA status but not in their entry level deal. In other words, somewhere in years 4-6. I am also under the impression that a player can only ever be eligible once for arbitration.

I'm not positive, but this is what I understand.
I found this...

Who Can File For Arbitration?

Not every restricted free agent is eligible; those who qualify must meet the age requirements as specified in the current Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). The ages indicated are those of the player in question when he signed his first professional contract while the years of experience reflect the total at the end of the most recent contract.

Eligible players must be:
* Between 18 and 20 with at least four years of professional experience
* 21 years old and have played at least three years of professional hockey
* Ages 22 and 23 with at least two years experience in the pro ranks
* 24 or older with at least one year of professional experience

According to the Agreement, at least 10 professional games – which includes the NHL, appearances in the minor league regular season or playoffs, and European or other leagues outside North America – equates to a year of experience.

I do recall that a team can only take a player to arbitration once, but a player can take a team as many times as they like provided they qualify.

More here too:

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/nhlfreeagents/a/arbitration.htm

I'd have to take a closer look at Kessel's details to see if he qualified.

20What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:57 pm

Guest


Guest
Nice thanks. Apparently a little more to it than I thought.

Who the hell is 18 with 4 years of pro experience though? lol

21What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:02 pm

SensFan71


All-Star
All-Star
what constitutes pro experience? does juniors count as pro experience? I doubt it, I am thinking it only counts AHL/NHL games as pro experience.

22What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:03 pm

PTFlea

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SensFan71 wrote:what constitutes pro experience? does juniors count as pro experience? I doubt it, I am thinking it only counts AHL/NHL games as pro experience.

When you sign a contract, that begins the countdown, right?

So it doesn't matter where Karlsson plays this year, even if it's Sweden, he'll burn a year off his contract.

Interesting stuff.

23What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:06 pm

caissie_1

caissie_1
Veteran
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SpezDispenser wrote:
SensFan71 wrote:what constitutes pro experience? does juniors count as pro experience? I doubt it, I am thinking it only counts AHL/NHL games as pro experience.

When you sign a contract, that begins the countdown, right?

So it doesn't matter where Karlsson plays this year, even if it's Sweden, he'll burn a year off his contract.

Interesting stuff.

Are you sure... What was it with Schenn or any other rookie who only play's 10 games and then get's sent down... Is that to not burn a year of the contract or is that for UFA status...

24What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:09 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
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caissie_1 wrote:

Are you sure... What was it with Schenn or any other rookie who only play's 10 games and then get's sent down... Is that to not burn a year of the contract or is that for UFA status...

Oh yeah....good call, tough question. I see that O'Brien still has 3 years left on his ELC, so maybe you're right.

Gosh, that would be great (for Karlsson).

Now I'm confused. :^^^^: Ahhhhh!

25What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:12 pm

Hockeyhero22000

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according to capgeek.com karlssons contract has the SR beside which denotes that the contract will slide if he plays less than 11 games ....now correct me if i am wrong but that implies if he is not in the nhl then he wont be burning that initial year off his contract

26What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:15 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
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^ Me likey.

27What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:46 pm

shabbs

shabbs
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We're mixing two different things here though aren't we? Experience used in consideration for RFA status vs what constitutes playing "a year" in the NHL when you are on an entry-level contract that can slide if you play 10 games or less.

28What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:50 pm

Guest


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SpezDispenser wrote:
caissie_1 wrote:

Are you sure... What was it with Schenn or any other rookie who only play's 10 games and then get's sent down... Is that to not burn a year of the contract or is that for UFA status...

Oh yeah....good call, tough question. I see that O'Brien still has 3 years left on his ELC, so maybe you're right.

Gosh, that would be great (for Karlsson).

Now I'm confused. :^^^^: Ahhhhh!

We only lose a year on Karlsson's EL contract if he plays in the NHL or the AHL. Going back to Sweden we don't lose that year. This is why I'm not a fan of him being here this year. I'd rather have a more seasoned, bigger, Karlsson for his 3 EL years.

29What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:57 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
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hemlock wrote:
We only lose a year on Karlsson's EL contract if he plays in the NHL or the AHL. Going back to Sweden we don't lose that year. This is why I'm not a fan of him being here this year. I'd rather have a more seasoned, bigger, Karlsson for his 3 EL years.

I feel like I've been saying this for a while now. We absolutely need Karlsson to get another year in the SEL. Or preferably the AHL, but I'll take the SEL on Frolunda, leading the team in minutes, getting experience, learning more about the defensive zone, strength, conditioning etc.

People have to understand that D-men take a long, long time to mature into minute eating, top pairing guys. Kronwall is 25 and he's hitting his stride. 6 years from where Karlsson is. Karlsson's pedigree is higher, but he himself compared them, so we're looking at a couple of years minimum before he contributes regularly.

One year in the SEL, a solid training camp and perhaps 20 games in the AHL and THEN Karlsson can take his first shot at being a full-time D-man. Before that and we're in jeopardy of trying to teach him on the fly at the NHL level - which can lead to disaster and confidence issues.

If this guy wasn't so important to us, I'd say whatever, but he's (one of) our franchise D-men. As for Cowen, I think he can think about jumping to the AHL next year - or bypassing that completely and joining Karlsson in the NHL next year (again though, a 20 game AHL stint never hurt anyone).

Wiercioch is the guy that I feel might be 3 years away.

30What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:02 pm

Guest


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SpezDispenser wrote:
hemlock wrote:
We only lose a year on Karlsson's EL contract if he plays in the NHL or the AHL. Going back to Sweden we don't lose that year. This is why I'm not a fan of him being here this year. I'd rather have a more seasoned, bigger, Karlsson for his 3 EL years.

I feel like I've been saying this for a while now. We absolutely need Karlsson to get another year in the SEL. Or preferably the AHL, but I'll take the SEL on Frolunda, leading the team in minutes, getting experience, learning more about the defensive zone, strength, conditioning etc.

People have to understand that D-men take a long, long time to mature into minute eating, top pairing guys. Kronwall is 25 and he's hitting his stride. 6 years from where Karlsson is. Karlsson's pedigree is higher, but he himself compared them, so we're looking at a couple of years minimum before he contributes regularly.

One year in the SEL, a solid training camp and perhaps 20 games in the AHL and THEN Karlsson can take his first shot at being a full-time D-man. Before that and we're in jeopardy of trying to teach him on the fly at the NHL level - which can lead to disaster and confidence issues.

If this guy wasn't so important to us, I'd say whatever, but he's (one of) our franchise D-men. As for Cowen, I think he can think about jumping to the AHL next year - or bypassing that completely and joining Karlsson in the NHL next year (again though, a 20 game AHL stint never hurt anyone).

Wiercioch is the guy that I feel might be 3 years away.

Agreed with all of this, although I'd like to see Wiercioch in the show in two years. From the time we drafted him up to now, he's made some tremendous strides, so if he continues at that pace, 2 years isn't unreasonable. I don't want to rush any of these 3. It's not like we are contending for the cup this year, or possibly next anyway. Laughing3

31What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:08 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
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hemlock wrote:
Agreed with all of this, although I'd like to see Wiercioch in the show in two years. From the time we drafted him up to now, he's made some tremendous strides, so if he continues at that pace, 2 years isn't unreasonable. I don't want to rush any of these 3. It's not like we are contending for the cup this year, or possibly next anyway. Laughing3

No we're not. I had pegged 10/11 as the year that I thought we'd be back, but since Hartsburg set us back a year, some of our forward prospects haven't lit it up at the NHL level and our absolute overhaul of D that's needed (and thankfully is coming), I'll say we'd be lucky to get back into serious contention in 11/12, more like 12/13 now when Karlsson and Cowen have a year or 2 under their belts to help Wiercioch through.

Robin Lehner will be a wildcard as well. He'll be ready soon enough, but he has a devastating rebound control problem that will take the better part of 2 years to correct I would imagine. If he can fix that, then he's pretty much ready from what I've seen and read. Just an awesome talent.

Elliott will be ready for prime time, hopefully we keep Volcehnkov. Phillips is put out to pasture or re-signed for 1.5. Kuba, traded or gone and one of Lee, Campoli, Picard, Gryba, etc. will hopefully mature/emerge into a top flight D-man.

Then we roll the dice with Spezza and the new forwards we'll have to indoctrinate into the system. Foligno is one for sure, Silfverberg, Regin etc. This will be their team when we contend (unless something amazing happens Ahhhhh! )

32What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:12 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
Wow...I must have been saving that to write a thesis in a Phil Kessel thread. Ahhhhh!

33What's up with Phil Kessel? - Page 2 Empty Re: What's up with Phil Kessel? on Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:20 pm

shabbs

shabbs
Hall of Famer
Hall of Famer
When you say serious contention, you mean for The Cup, right?

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