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FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency!

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766FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:32 pm

NEELY


Mod
Mod
A 25 year old player is not a stop gap. A 25 year old player is a guy they want to get a really good look at that they feel as high upside. Latendresse wasn't a one and done signing. It's a 1 year tryout.

767FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:32 pm

spader


All-Star
All-Star
Masters says Parise will speak in a few mins:

Mark Masters ‏@markhmasters
Being told Parise will talk to reporters here in about 5 mins

768FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:33 pm

PTFlea


Co-Founder
Co-Founder
We're 5 million away from the cap floor with 2 or 3 more spaces open. 1 is O'Brien @ ~1, another is Daugavins @ ~800K, so still 3.2 to get to the floor.

Another righty is coming, or something's coming.

769FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:34 pm

rooneypoo

rooneypoo
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spader wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
spader wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
spader wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
spader wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
NEELY wrote:I don't think he's much of a question mark. If he can play he will score 25 goals (82 game pace) min. I have always, always liked him. Playing a guy who can skate, shoot, and hit with Spezza... could be an absolute steal.

If you are trying to have a debate with me about Latendresse Rooney, prob not the right person because there is nothing about his game I dislike. Nothing. Think he slips into the top 6 right away and probably leads the Sens in goals if he stays healthy.

What I don't like is 27 games played in the last 2 years. If you don't see any potential for a problem there, then you are just burying your head in the sand on this one. I get liking a player and his potential, but I don't get denying that this guy is 100% a question mark at this stage.

Again, I think we have to put some faith in the medical staff and assume that, since he passed his physical, he's healthy at the moment. Whether he stays healthy is another story. I'm in the "wait and see but lean on the positive" side of this, I guess.

Like anyone, I'm hoping for the best. But let's not rush to appoint him a 25-goal-scorer and a lock for the top 6 just yet.

On its own, the move is relatively risk free -- not a lot a money, and a 1 year deal. But on its own, it's not the solution to our long-standing need for a clear, bona fide top 3 winger, and it's not clear that he's the solution for the short term either, given the injury history. If he's just one piece, and we're adding another winger via trade or free agency, I like it. If he's all we're adding, I'm not thrilled, at all.

I think he's meant as a stop-gap while one or some of ZBad, Stone, and Silf work into the top-six. I don't think he's meant to be a long-term solution at all (which is clear from the term). Of course, he may wind up being healthy and productive for the majority of the year and earn another contract with more term.

I'm sure that they aren't done, but I'm ok with the moves that they've made so far.

You did read the sentence that came right after the one you bolded, right? Because that addresses exactly the point you followed up with...

I was just expanding on your point. No, he's not a long-term solution, but would anyone think that a player on a one-year contract would be? The fact that he isn't a long-term solution isn't exactly breaking news. As far as a short-term solution goes, he'll be a stop-gap as long as he's healthy. That's all. He's there to insulate and/or fill-in while the top-six prospects fight their way into the lineup.

And as long as my uncle has a penis, he won't be my aunt.

My whole point is that the guy is a question mark, whereas Foligno was a certainty.

True. Still, I think this deal provides a lot of mobility. If he's outperformed or injured, he frees up a spot for a Silf or a Stone. They can dump his contract in the AHL or scratch him if necessary. They have a lot more mobility with his contract than they would with Foligno's $3M or whatever deal he signs. The forward ranks are in transition. Whatever Foligno gets, it'll be an overpayment if he was bumped to our 3rd line, IMO.

Yeah, that I can buy, for sure. I just don't want Latendresse to be our only addition at forward (via trade or UFA, whichever), because I think that would be a huge mistake.

770FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:34 pm

NEELY


Mod
Mod
rooneypoo wrote:
Big Ev wrote:Foligno had one pretty good year, in a contract year. He wasn't really a sure thing either.

With Foligno, you know what you were getting: a guy who would can stay healthy, who can put up 15+ goals, and who's going to get you 35+ points. Year in and year out.

I don't mind the Methot trade, really -- I expected him to be traded this offseason, to be honest -- but I just don't buy that Latendresse is any where near as established or a dependable commodity as is Foligno. People who are saying that are lying to themselves.

In any event, this team doesn't need a Foligno or a Foligno replacement. It needs an injection of clear top-6 talent.

Foligno would get those points in a 4 week period within the year and then would be invisable the rest of the time. Seriously, until Foligno hits the 20 goal mark, he isn't a 2nd liner. Latendresse is a potential 30 goal scorer, Foligno being talked about in a positive manner is a possible 20 goal scorer.

771FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:35 pm

spader

spader
All-Star
All-Star
NEELY wrote:A 25 year old player is not a stop gap. A 25 year old player is a guy they want to get a really good look at that they feel as high upside. Latendresse wasn't a one and done signing. It's a 1 year tryout.

We're all speculating. Maybe it's a bit of both. He's here to show that he can stick in the lineup, stay healthy, and produce, but also here to be a stop-gap while the young guns learn the ropes.

772FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:36 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
sensblog ‏@sensblog
Garrioch is certain "Methot to play alongside Karlsson, Lundin alongside Philips". I'm not convinced:

Sounds right to me. Methot - Karlsson
Cowen - Gonchar
Phillips - Lundin

773FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:36 pm

spader

spader
All-Star
All-Star
rooneypoo wrote:
spader wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
spader wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
spader wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
spader wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
NEELY wrote:I don't think he's much of a question mark. If he can play he will score 25 goals (82 game pace) min. I have always, always liked him. Playing a guy who can skate, shoot, and hit with Spezza... could be an absolute steal.

If you are trying to have a debate with me about Latendresse Rooney, prob not the right person because there is nothing about his game I dislike. Nothing. Think he slips into the top 6 right away and probably leads the Sens in goals if he stays healthy.

What I don't like is 27 games played in the last 2 years. If you don't see any potential for a problem there, then you are just burying your head in the sand on this one. I get liking a player and his potential, but I don't get denying that this guy is 100% a question mark at this stage.

Again, I think we have to put some faith in the medical staff and assume that, since he passed his physical, he's healthy at the moment. Whether he stays healthy is another story. I'm in the "wait and see but lean on the positive" side of this, I guess.

Like anyone, I'm hoping for the best. But let's not rush to appoint him a 25-goal-scorer and a lock for the top 6 just yet.

On its own, the move is relatively risk free -- not a lot a money, and a 1 year deal. But on its own, it's not the solution to our long-standing need for a clear, bona fide top 3 winger, and it's not clear that he's the solution for the short term either, given the injury history. If he's just one piece, and we're adding another winger via trade or free agency, I like it. If he's all we're adding, I'm not thrilled, at all.

I think he's meant as a stop-gap while one or some of ZBad, Stone, and Silf work into the top-six. I don't think he's meant to be a long-term solution at all (which is clear from the term). Of course, he may wind up being healthy and productive for the majority of the year and earn another contract with more term.

I'm sure that they aren't done, but I'm ok with the moves that they've made so far.

You did read the sentence that came right after the one you bolded, right? Because that addresses exactly the point you followed up with...

I was just expanding on your point. No, he's not a long-term solution, but would anyone think that a player on a one-year contract would be? The fact that he isn't a long-term solution isn't exactly breaking news. As far as a short-term solution goes, he'll be a stop-gap as long as he's healthy. That's all. He's there to insulate and/or fill-in while the top-six prospects fight their way into the lineup.

And as long as my uncle has a penis, he won't be my aunt.

My whole point is that the guy is a question mark, whereas Foligno was a certainty.

True. Still, I think this deal provides a lot of mobility. If he's outperformed or injured, he frees up a spot for a Silf or a Stone. They can dump his contract in the AHL or scratch him if necessary. They have a lot more mobility with his contract than they would with Foligno's $3M or whatever deal he signs. The forward ranks are in transition. Whatever Foligno gets, it'll be an overpayment if he was bumped to our 3rd line, IMO.

Yeah, that I can buy, for sure. I just don't want Latendresse to be our only addition at forward (via trade or UFA, whichever), because I think that would be a huge mistake.

FWIW, the Sens are likely to have a couple of internal additions. Silf and/or Stone are likely to push for spots, and I'm sure Murray wants to see what he's got there.

774FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:37 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
Holy Diddle, word around the campfire is that Parise is a Penguin.

775FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:37 pm

rooneypoo

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All-Star
All-Star
SpezDispenser wrote:We're 5 million away from the cap floor with 2 or 3 more spaces open. 1 is O'Brien @ ~1, another is Daugavins @ ~800K, so still 3.2 to get to the floor.

Another righty is coming, or something's coming.

Let's say you're right -- then, again, why sign Lundin? He just stands in Boro's way. If we're happy carrying 8 D for parts of the season, and you just want Lundin to help push Boro, fine. But right now, it looks like he is going to squeeze Boro out of the top 7.

776FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:37 pm

SensHulk

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All-Star
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Michallica wrote:The Diddle's happening with Parise and suter??? Been long enough already.

Yeah I agree man. What's the freaking hold-up with these guys??

777FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:39 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
rooneypoo wrote:
SpezDispenser wrote:We're 5 million away from the cap floor with 2 or 3 more spaces open. 1 is O'Brien @ ~1, another is Daugavins @ ~800K, so still 3.2 to get to the floor.

Another righty is coming, or something's coming.

Let's say you're right -- then, again, why sign Lundin? He just stands in Boro's way. If we're happy carrying 8 D for parts of the season, and you just want Lundin to help push Boro, fine. But right now, it looks like he is going to squeeze Boro out of the top 7.

Depth on the right side? Depth for the PP? I'm with you, no idea.

778FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:41 pm

rooneypoo

rooneypoo
All-Star
All-Star
NEELY wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
Big Ev wrote:Foligno had one pretty good year, in a contract year. He wasn't really a sure thing either.

With Foligno, you know what you were getting: a guy who would can stay healthy, who can put up 15+ goals, and who's going to get you 35+ points. Year in and year out.

I don't mind the Methot trade, really -- I expected him to be traded this offseason, to be honest -- but I just don't buy that Latendresse is any where near as established or a dependable commodity as is Foligno. People who are saying that are lying to themselves.

In any event, this team doesn't need a Foligno or a Foligno replacement. It needs an injection of clear top-6 talent.

Foligno would get those points in a 4 week period within the year and then would be invisable the rest of the time. Seriously, until Foligno hits the 20 goal mark, he isn't a 2nd liner. Latendresse is a potential 30 goal scorer, Foligno being talked about in a positive manner is a possible 20 goal scorer.

You're missing my point here: Foligno is an established and known quantity. You know, worst case, exactly what you're getting, and he's got the potential to do more. With Latendresse, yep, lots of potential, but also lots of potential to not play half the year.

Latendresse has been, for all intents and purposes, out of the NHL for 2 full years. Whatever we're getting, it's not the Latendresse who score 25+ goals in 2009-10. You have to ask yourself why a goal-starved team like MIN didn't even both to qualify the guy to maintain his rights, and then move him if they didn't want him.

779FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:43 pm

SensHulk

SensHulk
All-Star
All-Star
Michallica wrote:
Michallica wrote:The Diddle's happening with Parise and suter??? Been long enough already.

Yeah I agree man. What's the freaking hold-up with these guys??

@aaronward_nhl: At this rate, Tim Thomas will have un-retired by the time Parise and Suter make a choice. #cmonalready #Howsoniswaiting

780FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:43 pm

spader

spader
All-Star
All-Star
Ugh. I still like the Hudler move, but this is ridiculous:

Greg Wyshynski ‏@wyshynski
New Puck Daddy: Calgary Flames now have 2nd highest payroll in NHL after Jiri Hudler signing

It's a pretty clear correlation. If you have one of the highest payrolls in the NHL and consistently miss the playoffs, you belong to a poorly managed team.

781FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:44 pm

PTFlea

PTFlea
Co-Founder
Co-Founder
spader wrote:Ugh. I still like the Hudler move, but this is ridiculous:

Greg Wyshynski ‏@wyshynski
New Puck Daddy: Calgary Flames now have 2nd highest payroll in NHL after Jiri Hudler signing

It's a pretty clear correlation. If you have one of the highest payrolls in the NHL and consistently miss the playoffs, you belong to a poorly managed team.

Good lord, that's the worst management in history.

782FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:44 pm

Ev

Ev
Franchise Player
Franchise Player
I like Calgary's team. I think they make the playoffs. I also love their last 2 first round picks, and they have gotten some solid value picks in later rounds (Ferland, Gaudreau, etc.). Cervenka was a good signing.



Last edited by Big Ev on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

783FA Tracker!  ALL things Free Agency! - Page 52 Empty Re: FA Tracker! ALL things Free Agency! on Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:45 pm

NEELY


Mod
Mod
rooneypoo wrote:
NEELY wrote:
rooneypoo wrote:
Big Ev wrote:Foligno had one pretty good year, in a contract year. He wasn't really a sure thing either.

With Foligno, you know what you were getting: a guy who would can stay healthy, who can put up 15+ goals, and who's going to get you 35+ points. Year in and year out.

I don't mind the Methot trade, really -- I expected him to be traded this offseason, to be honest -- but I just don't buy that Latendresse is any where near as established or a dependable commodity as is Foligno. People who are saying that are lying to themselves.

In any event, this team doesn't need a Foligno or a Foligno replacement. It needs an injection of clear top-6 talent.

Foligno would get those points in a 4 week period within the year and then would be invisable the rest of the time. Seriously, until Foligno hits the 20 goal mark, he isn't a 2nd liner. Latendresse is a potential 30 goal scorer, Foligno being talked about in a positive manner is a possible 20 goal scorer.

You're missing my point here: Foligno is an established and known quantity. You know, worst case, exactly what you're getting, and he's got the potential to do more. With Latendresse, yep, lots of potential, but also lots of potential to not play half the year.

Latendresse has been, for all intents and purposes, out of the NHL for 2 full years. Whatever we're getting, it's not the Latendresse who score 25+ goals in 2009-10. You have to ask yourself why a goal-starved team like MIN didn't even both to qualify the guy to maintain his rights, and then move him if they didn't want him.

So basically it's like stock that probably won't make you any money, but you won't lose any. You have a bunch of other stock like that. But you wouldn't sell that stock for something else that has a lot more potential but just hasn't performed for w/e reason (injuries in this case).

They sold high on Foligno IMO, I think that's probably close to the best year he will have. Latendresse, we'll see but he could be like finding gold. Foligno will always been copper.

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